Okay my 88 4 cylinder car has been overheating since forever, and the water pump finally starts leaking...time to replace it. No problem, I have a genuine GM replacement water pump. No the hard part, how in the heck to I get the old one off??

I have removed the battery, the serpentine belt and even the decklid and I still can't even see all the bolts let alone get a wrench in there to remove them.

The 7 bolts that hold the waterpump cover on are obscured by the pully and you will never get them out with the pully on. How do I remove the pulley while still in the car?

Instead, some have suggested removing the 4 bolts that hold the water pump bracket to the block.

Maybe unique to 88 but I have a heat shield that appears to be welded in place that is all but obscuring the 4 bolts that hold the water pump housing to the block. Even after I bent it out of the way and could get a peek at the bolts I realize there are 2 additional bolts that are connected to a bracket that goes to the A/C. The bottom of those bolts are in a blind alley that I can't imagine ever getting a wrench on without dropping the engine.

So it's back to considering the 7 bolts on the water pump cover. How do I remove the pulley while still in the car?

Remember this is an 88 4 cylinder car, and any suggestions would be appreciated.

Jonathan

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Firebird Interior Installation Thread

The water pump comes two different ways, with and without the pulley attached. If the replacement pump you have doesn't have the pulley, you will need to get the special puller needed to remove and install the pulley. Also, many auto parts stores will swap the pulley out for you at minimal or no cost.

To get the pump off, remove all the bolts that are not blocked by the pulley. Then, loosen each captive bolt as much as you can, then loosen the body of the pump from the housing. Once the pump is loose, just continue to loosen each bolt repeatedly until the pump is off.

Reinstallation is the reverse, tighten each captive bolt in turn as you pull the pump down to the mounting block, then install the other bolts.

Do not, under ANY circumstances, attempt to remove the pulley with a regular 3-jaw puller or any other puller except for the one designed for the job. The wrong puller WILL fail, and destroy the pulley in the process.

JazzMan

It's been awhile since mine was a four cylinder, so I can't even remember what kind of stuff might have been in the way.

However, according to the Helms manual, one disconnects the neg. battery cable, cooling system, serpentine drive belt, water pump front cover assembly attaching bolts, and water pump front cover assembly.

Remove the pully with a J25034-B or J29785-A pully remover. Use a J25033-B pully installer when it goes back together. Use sealant on water pump sealing surface and coat the bolts with RTV to avoid coolant leaks.

The book makes it look easy, but we know how often it really is.

Luck!

Can only help so much. My Fiero mechanic told me it was 3 hour job and he did it for $100 plus $40 for a new pump.

The 88 manual says you have to remove the negative cable, drain the coolant, remove the serp belt, the water pump frt cover bolts, and then the water pump frt coveer assy. After that use a J25034-B or J29785-A pulley remover, clean the mating surfaces and then if you didn't buy a new pump w/pulley install the old pulley to the new pump with a J25033-B pulley installer.
Put a 3mm(1/8") bead of sealant on pump sealing surface. Reistall water pump frt cover assy, while sealant is still wet, attaching bolts and torquing to spec. Bolts must also be coated with RTV sealer to avoid leaks. Connect generator or AC comp., serp belt, coolant(burp) , battery.

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Notchbacks Rule
84 Coupe(parts car)
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[This message has been edited by Fierobruiser (edited 07-27-2003).]

Replaced mine twice. It's a real S.O.B. The second time I had the A/C compressor off and that made it a bit easier cause the pump could be removed by removing the housing bolts as you described. I think the heat shield bolted on somewhere, it wasn't welded on. If you have the chilton manual, look on page 88. There's a diagram showing the pump and the A/C bracket that hides some of the bolts. Three bolts hold the bracket to the block and two have spacers behind that get lost easily. Another bolt attaches to the compressor. Once the bracket is removed you can get to most of the pump bolts with a short box-end wrench. You don't have to remove the pump pulley. Can't remember if the belt tensioner had to come off to get to the other pump bolts but I did replace it (twice) so it was out of the way. If you ever have anything lock-up that's driven by the belt, it will destroy the tensioner. Seems like it's designed to self destruct.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 07-27-2003).]

Thanks JazzMan.

I have the Helms manual, and normally it's pretty good, but in this case it's a joke. If my 2.5 were on a bench, yeah it would be that easy.

But in the car it's a whole different ball game. It would be so much easier if the pulley came off in the car, but I don't think AutoZone is going to come to my house to remove it.

So Jazzman are you telling me I can get to all 7 bolts without removing the pulley in the car? Thanks.

Jonathan

Yes, you can remove the pump with the pulley still on it. There are 3 or 4 bolts that the pulley prevents removal of. However, an open end wrench will turn the bolts, though it is tight. There is enough room for the bolts to back out, so you back each bolt out until they hit the back of the pulley. You remove the other non-captive bolts completely. Then you pry the pump loose and it will move back against the heads of the captive bolts. Now you can turn those bolts out some more, move the pump out some more, repeat until the pump's off. Take the pump down to AutoZone and they should be happy to swap the pulley for you. The last pump I bought from them for my 2.5 came with the pulley on it and the captive bolts in it already.

You can buy the puller from Harbor Freight Tools, do a google for their website. There are two of them in my town. I think I paid like $15 for mine on sale, and it handles all sorts of that type GM pulley, not just water pumps.

JazzMan

JazzMan, you must not have had A/C on the car that you did this on? I have 4 of the 7 bolts backed out, but I can't even see the other three because they are completely blocked by the a/c bracket.

I've got the car jacked up, right rear wheel off, and wheel well removed and I can definietly see that those 3 bolts are impossible. It looks like I should go order the pully puller from harbor freight.

Yep, no A/C. Man, makes me reconsider putting A/C in that car.

JazzMan

Grrrrr. I was hoping this would be at most a weekend job, it's looking like it will be another couple of weeks before I can devote a whole weekend to working on it again.

Even with the pulley off, it looks 50/50 that I might still have to drop the compressor and the bracket. I hope not.

You have to get the A/C bracket out of the way. Take the two bolts out of the face of the bracket (don't lose the spacers) and the bolt that screws into the A/C compressor ear. Then just loosen the bolt holding the bracket to the block, between the block and the compressor. You can rotate the top of the bracket toward you enough to provide room to get to the hidden water pump bolts. The bracket is labeled #8 on the diagram.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Anybody know where I can get a pulley puller?

If there is an Auto Zone near you they have a tool loan out program.
Basicly the tool is rented at the purchase price and when you return it you get your cash back.

Thanks Spark1,

I'm surprised no other post mentions how big a pain the A$$ changing the water pump is on the 4 cylinder. Looks like I'll have to loosen the compressor bracket, to get access to those last three bolts. Good thing that I got the GM waterpump because I don't intend to do this again anytime soon.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 07-29-2003).]

Whew, finally got that water pump replaced! I had to take a two week break for vacation. Almost forgot where everything goes.

A big "+" to Spark1. Loosening the A/C bracket was the ticket to getting it done. Also, removing the pulley, (which I had to do anyway, as my new pump didn't come with one) was also what made it possible.
also, the a/c compressor brackets are easiest to get to from below so you need to jack up the vehicle and remove the left rear wheel and wheel well.

In this case the Helms is woefully inadequate to describing the process, here is what it should say for 88 with a/c:

1) remove battery
2) remove battery tray
3) remove guard over serpentine belt
4) remove serpentine belt
5( jack up rear of vehicle
6) remove right rear wheel
7) remove right rear wheel well
8) remove three front bolts to a/c bracket and loosen the one to the block
9) remove water pump pulley
10) drain cooling system
11) Now you can finally remove 7 bolts that hold on the water pump.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-10-2003).]

Let's keep this one up for the other's who might be doing this. I just did one last night (tonight the new one goes on).

I actually got all the bolts off (some faster than others ) and had to loosten the AC bracket up to make room for the last bolt to be removed.

Also, when getting a new pump, you might not find a direct swap with the right pulley on it. They will probably bring out the early model pump which has the v-belt and serpentine pulleys on it. You need to get the pulley taken off the original and have it pressed on the new pump. My shop charged $10 bucks to do that.

Anyways, not THAT bad off a job, it is a ***** to get at some of those bolts though.
One could ponder why the hell GM designs things the way they do sometimes.

Hey, at least my brother will love me for fixin' his Fiero!

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'87GT 5" Drop on 17's, Can you say "Bagged"? -on air- Custom-MUCH!
'95 Eclipse GSX, 5spd, 3" drop, T-25 turbo, 15psi boost, Intake, Exhaust, '99 fascia

fieros only

i changed the water pump in my 88 duke several months ago.

all of the info needed is in the archives.

people just need to learn how to search -

i searched on "water pump" and chose SUBJECT ONLY and got more info than i could possibly use

The bottom line is, you need a pulley puller, and they loan them free at autozone

Yup been there done that. The bolts are behind the pully. There is not much clearence so the trick is to loosen them all in sequence until they are all backed out.

VERY time consuming and it's an execsize in patience.

Been there, done that and got busted knuckles (now healed) to prove it. I spent two days of worth of patience. Followed by much weeping and knashing of teeth.

Good luck for all those attempt such a project. By the way, is there anything special to doing an 88' 2.8 water pump in the car? I had my engine out and changed it then. REAL easy, but in the car looks to be another project all together. Any hintsfor the 2.8 while we are on the subject?

88Ironduke

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Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses.
I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.

I can say that every step in my procedure was necessary. If you have A/C you have to loosen the compressor bracket. I can't imagine getting to it from above so I have to jack up the car and remove the wheel.

I did not find the info I needed in the archives. Without Spark1's help I wuld still be out there wrestling with those bolts.

Also it may be different for serpentine pulleys versus v-belts, but you can't get the 7 bolts out on mine with the pulley on...no way no how was it possible. I got the pully puller and removed the pulley. As for getting the pulley back on the new waterpump I used a few taps from a hammer.

Good luck to those doing this.

It is possible to remove the pump without taking the serpentine pulley off. I took the pump with the pulley still attached to Pep Boys. Got a new (not rebuilt) Bosch pump (#97055) for $32.99 and they moved the pulley from the old to the new. So I'm sure I put it back on with the pulley attached. Stubby box-end wrenches are real handy. I was also changing the belt tensioner at the time so maybe having that out of the way makes a difference. It was still one of the most difficult "minor" auto repair jobs I've ever seen.

Thanks again to Spark1. Notice I said I couldn't get my waterpump off with the pulley still attached. I don't know what everyone elses looked like, but mine was impossible. I have the 5 degree Craftsman box wrenches and it still wasn't happening.

The two bolts next to the belt tensioner were the impossible ones to get to. I also remember now that there were two wire looms and a clamp blocking acess to those bolts. I had to pull those wires out of the way.

This is what I'm talking about. I can't speak for anyone elses car but it wasn't happening on mine with the pulley installed.

This is what it looks like all put together:

this is why I say the Helms procedure is a joke...just remove 7 bolts...yeah right

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-21-2003).]