I have done a search and can't find what I am looking for... 2.8L V6
For those that have done this...
How did you do it..??

Thank's in advance...

SmoothGT!!

------------------
Said Hulki, "You had to look at the Fiero not as
a car, but as a process."

SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com

smoothie, ive got my 85 out and on the ground. i just put the trottle body and coolant lines back together within the last week.

what are you needing to do.

as a side note. the nipple that comes off from the thermostat housing was clogged. thus there was no coolant runing through the trottle body.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: what are you needing to do?

Well, I am going to remove them, but was wondering about what I need to 'plug-up'..??

quote Originally posted by Smoooooth GT: Well, I am going to remove them, but was wondering about what I need to 'plug-up'..??

All you need to do is link the 2 throttle body lines together. The easiest spot to do this is right beside the theromostat housing. the 2 small rubber TB lines are easy to connect with a small piece of the old line and some pipe clamps. (making some flares obviously too)

then you just remove the old lines from the throttle body and the stablizer mount from the upper plenum.

this makes it much easier to access some parts and makes the engine compartment look way tidier.

the only downfall that i know of is that in cold climates it may be harder to start your car because your TB may get alittle frosty.

the only hassels while doin this job are removing the lines from the TB (PB blaster or a good lube works nicely) and removing or cutting the stablalizer that attaches the TB lines to the upper plenum.

some good things about this is you apparently get alittle bit more HP, but who knows

i hope this helps

if you need more details email me

-Phil

------------------

86 SE V6 under constuction
Rate me if i am of assitance please, thank you...

quote Originally posted by Phil86SE: the only downfall that i know of is that in cold climates it may be harder to start your car because your TB may get alittle frosty.

Thank's Phil. EXACTLY what I was looking for... Thank's a MILLION!!

Frosty..?? What is that..?? Forget I am in East Texas..??

Smooth!!

quote Originally posted by Smoooooth GT: Thank's Phil. EXACTLY what I was looking for... Thank's a MILLION!! Frosty..?? What is that..?? Forget I am in East Texas..?? Smooth!!

HA, sorry...i musta missed that...
how is the weather down there...
in my little town up here we have been hittin about 100* or 38-40* celcius

-Phil

quote Originally posted by Phil86SE: HA, sorry...i musta missed that... how is the weather down there... in my little town up here we have been hittin about 100* or 38-40* celcius -Phil

It's been in the Mid-High 90's for 2 month's now...
Thank's for the info on the TB line's... Have you done this Mod to the line's yourself..??

When I removed mine I had to use a hacksaw to get the pipes of the bracket that the MAP-sensor also sits on. Besides that it was just bolt off and reroute. Looks much cleaner now.

EDIT: Sorry just read that Phil covered the stabiliser cutting in his thread.

[This message has been edited by Intel (edited 08-02-2003).]

Yooo...Dudes. David here in Central Wisconsin. I know a bit about cold weather.
We get gasline freeze here in the winter months....I often put a bottle of Heat in gas tank every fill. Before any of you snowbirds remove coolant (and heating) tubes. this should be taken into consideration.

[QUOTE/]
Have you done this Mod to the line's yourself..??

[/QUOTE]

I haven't, i was halfway through the job one day when i chickened out and put them back in becuase in the climate i live in the summers can be scortchin.....but we only have 3 months of summer and 9 months of about 6 to 15+ feet of snow. I ended up doin all the research on it and then just never went through with it.

i hope that helps you out though...cause i know you have been an inspiration to me and helped me out plenty of times before

-Phil

------------------

86 SE V6 under constuction
Rate me if i am of assitance please, thank you...

I took my lines right out, i bypassed it at the thermastat neck (put a longer piece of hose in). In october im moving to maine for college so im hoping the high heat of the engine compartment will be good enough.

Kyle

The theory that the coolant lines to the throttle body are there to prevent frosting is invalid. When you cold start your car the coolant is as cold as the engine is so where is the benefit? As the engine warms the plenum gets pretty hot and this heat transfers to the throttle body. IMO the coolant lines to the throttle body do nothing. I've removed them on two Fieros and see no difference whatsoever. I've been running my turbo 87 for two years and theres never been any hint of a problem. I remove the lines from the engine totally and plug the hose nipples on the thermostat housing with rubber end caps and small clamps.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://www.turbochargerpower.com/turbo.htm

I just unscrewed the Map sensor from the metal bracket, and chucked the lines entirely. A black zip tie is well camouflaged and holds the map sensor just fine. I also just looped at the thermostat housing..

From this:

To this (minus the T fitting, which isn't supposed to be there, even in my application LOL)

Thanks for the information guy's... Helped a bunch!!

Smooth!!

1st off I'm no Fiero expert but on most cars the coolant going through the intake is to cool the ERG. Exhaust gasses tend to be quite warm and the coolant keeps the intke relatively cool. It works that way on Mustangs.

What do I do at he TB itself...?? How do I plug those hole's..?? What did you do Jncomutt?? Any pic's of the TB..?? hehe

quote Originally posted by Smoooooth GT: What do I do at he TB itself...??

Nothing. Just remove the lines. You can remove the brass fittings too, or just leave them.

I "zizz wheeled" the MAP sensor bracket where the lines are attached. That way I still had the bracket for the MAP.
I just looped and clamped a piece of hose between both fittings on the thermostat housing. I've heard of others just sawing off the fittings and welding up the holes. Whatever works for you.

I did this same mod on both of mine with no ill effects, ever. And I can even get to my distributor now.

------------------
Raydar

88 3.4 coupe. 17s, cut springs 'n all.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-02-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Nothing. Just remove the lines. You can remove the brass fittings too, or just leave them. I "zizz wheeled" the MAP sensor bracket where the lines are attached. That way I still had the bracket for the MAP. I just ran a piece of hose with clamps from both fitting on the thermostat housing. I've heard of others just sawing off the fittings and welding up the holes. I did this same mod on both of mine with no trouble, ever. And I can even get to my distributor, now.

thank's Raydar..

hey dude... I am sorry about the in my Trash Can thread. Nothing personal..

Steve

Another vote for no bad effects from removing the lines. I cut off and had a friend weld the openings shut right on the thermostat housing. Then ground it smooth and repainted...looks perfect. I also cut the line from the MAP sensor bracket.

On the TB, I removed as much as possible. There was a fitting left over. Just for looks, I removed those too.

The coolant line does not cool the intake air. Think about it. The IAT sensor reads about 100* when it's about 75 outside. The coolant is a lot hotter than that. So how could it possibly cool the intake air?

The purpose of it was to warm the intake air a little. This helps emmisions but hurts performance due to less oxygen in a given volume of intake air. (higher temp = less dense intake air)

Steve

------------------
1988 Formula 3.4L

Make's sense to me.. Thank's!

SmoothGT!!

couldnt you just do it the half-assed way and leave everythign in place but disconnect the lines at the rubber hoses by the water neck and stick a couple of screws in the hoses and clamp them in effectively stopping the flow of coolent?

------------------


--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed

Probably could but make sure that the screews are alot bigger then the lines so they dont get sucked through into the thermastat

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: couldnt you just do it the half-assed way and leave everythign in place but disconnect the lines at the rubber hoses by the water neck and stick a couple of screws in the hoses and clamp them in effectively stopping the flow of coolent?

You could half-ass it that way if your main intentions are just to get rid of the coolent. For most others the cooling is a benefit of cleaning up the engine bay. It makes accessing things easier, and looks much neater. IMO.. (Net Worth: $0.02)

I removed my TB coolant lines years ago. I agree with the above but I do believe that they serve some purpose. If you think about the incoming air through the TB can create a wind chill effect frosting up the intake. But, I believe this would never happen in the Fiero, since the exhaust is right below the TB and it is mid-engine. They are possible a hold over from front engine designed cars.

Thank's...
I got em off and it's a done deal...

Thank' for all the help..

SmoothGT!!

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: ...If you think about the incoming air through the TB can create a wind chill effect frosting up the intake...

I've heard of carbs icing up.
I always understood that it was due to the cooling effect of the vaporized fuel as opposed to just cold air.
I have never, not even once, heard of a "dry" throttle body icing up. Which is not to say it couldn't happen, but it would certainly be news to me. I'm more inclined to think it's done for emissions.

Smooooth... As I said in the other thread, it's all good. Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions before, and over-reacted.

Raydar

The main purpose for the TB lines, it keeps the throttlebody warm witch keeps Ice from forming on the throttlebody. You know when you decompress air, it gets colder. Air, as it passes through the gap on the throttle plate decompresses alot.
For instance, its 34ºF on the inlet side of the throttle plate and on the other side its 25ºF, Ice is going to form right on the edge of the throttle plate. So, if your car is not going to see temperatures less then 40ºF, you probably will never have a problem without the lines. its just everyone else that there is a small chance of having there throttle plate stick. but its just a small chance.

Smooth and raydar, gave you +'s for maturity, I respect that.

------------------
84 Indy fiero Quad 4 HO (almost done!!)
85 2m? Getting parted out soon
Silver 88 GT, Newest addiction.

i hooked mine back up when i put the motor togther. but after reading this post i probably wouldn't have. and it gets down to 0-5 sometimes in the winter here.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Smooooth... As I said in the other thread, it's all good. Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions before, and over-reacted. Raydar

Hey, thank's abunch.. I did'nt mean to pisss off the whole forum... But, I did.. It'll pass, but, I am still getting the personal attack from a few knotheaded member's... I'll just give the shiit right back though....

Fierobsessed
Thank's... Means alot!

Ive had the throttle body ice up on my formula car (not Fiero) in 50deg F weather. Iced on the trailing edge of the throttle blade. It wouldn't allow the throttle to close all the way. You could see the ice forming on the outside of the TB as well.

It only happened that one time. But it has happened.

Brett

I fully intend to do this mod to my Fiero, just for ease of servicing in the future. I've done it to my other car a couple years ago and have had no troubles, although our winters are relatively dry here.

This is a common modification; the V8 Camaro and Firebird guys do it, the V6 J-Body guys do it.... Even if its just to save some headaches next time you take off the TB for cleaning its probably worth it.

------------------
88 Fiero GT 91K miles
91 Beretta 304K miles

quote Originally posted by soloyosh: Ive had the throttle body ice up on my formula car (not Fiero) in 50deg F weather. Iced on the trailing edge of the throttle blade. It wouldn't allow the throttle to close all the way. You could see the ice forming on the outside of the TB as well. It only happened that one time. But it has happened. Brett

Interesting!
What kind of FI system is it? IOW, are there injectors in the TB before the throttle plate, like a GM TBI system, or is it port injected like our V-6s, and the TB just regulates air?

Raydar

quote Originally posted by soloyosh: Ive had the throttle body ice up on my formula car (not Fiero) in 50deg F weather. Iced on the trailing edge of the throttle blade. It wouldn't allow the throttle to close all the way. You could see the ice forming on the outside of the TB as well. It only happened that one time. But it has happened. Brett

That's the main reason why they are plumbed into the cooling system, under certain weather conditions this will happen, and it's not fun trying to stop a car quickly with the throttle hung open. Another reason is that it keeps the throttle body at a uniform temperature which does assist regulating the temperature of incoming air for better mixture control.

Someone mentioned that the throttle body gets heat from the heat transfer off the intake manifold. This is a good point to consider, as it may get too much heat, in which case the coolant would actually 'cool' it down. Nobody has posted that they have taken temperature reading off the thottle body itself to see what the differences are for plumbed and by-passed throttle bodies. I'd be a little leary of making this change without looking deeper into it. Even the performance throttle bodies from Lingenfelter come with these coolant passages in them.

Great Point's Tom... Thank's!

Hey... Is there ANYTHING else I can eliminate like any hoses from the upper intake or the tubing going to the Air Filter housing...???

[This message has been edited by Smoooooth GT (edited 08-03-2003).]

you have the vent from the valve cover, you caqn buy external filters for them (looks like a very small K&N) and that will eliminate that.

Just a side note about the coolant lines-
One of the lines is above the thermostat and the other is below it. When the thermostat is closed, coolant is routed from the lower line, to the throttle body and back through the upper line. When the thermostat is open, most of the coolant goes through it instead of the lines. In other words, they only do anything when the engine is warming up

Carb ice forms when the dewpoint is below freezing. Like Fierobsessed said about the temps on each side of the throttle plates, if the humidity is high frost can form on the wall as well as the plate, terrorizing the airflow. Piston airplanes have a carb heat lever just for those conditions. The reason it is a lever instead of on all the time is because of the power LOSS caused by the warm air.
I disconnected the carb heat on an X1/9 I autocrossed. It helped power but every time I drove in the rain between 32 and 45 degrees the carb would ice up so bad I had to stop and let engine heat thaw it out again. Its a climate thing.