Gawd, I love living in Chicagoland! It's a gearhead's dream. One of these days when I get back up north to visit the parents in McHenry, I hope I see you guys cruisin' around!
Bob
------------------ As Alice Cooper once said...
quote
Feed My.... Frankenstein!
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09:27 PM
Aug 22nd, 2002
Kaz Member
Posts: 62 From: Hoffman Estates IL Registered: Oct 2001
Dave doesn't have Internet access in the evenings, so I get to beat him to this post.
Dave drove that beast quite a bit today (considering it don't have a body on it yet).
I know it sounds great from the outside, and Dave was doing a lot of grinning. And when he wasn't in the car between drives, he was strutting around it like new Father.
I think he likes it.
We got the SPEC clutch thing all sorted out and I'm gonna post that info the the Clutch thread later tonight. (I'm still getting the pictures marked up to explain what we found and did)
Anyway, we took the car to the body shop for the rest of the paint and body work today. We hope to have it back in a week or so. Then we get to get serious about putting some miles on the car.
Archie
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09:29 PM
Biznach Member
Posts: 51 From: Chula Vista, CA, USA Registered: Jul 2002
I know I'm pretty new to the Forum and all, but I just have to say that ya'll are the GREATEST. I was thinking about a 3.4 TDC conversion for my '87 GT, but after reading through the last three pages and seeing the pics, all I want is a "Balls to the wall" Big A@@ V-8 in my Fiero! Archie, you da man! That motor looks outstanding! I wish you lived in SoCal Archie! I would give you the keys and what ever amount of money it took to get my Fiero like this one. I'm going to go to bed and cry while I think about my little 2.8 in my car and dream sweet dreams about that bad a@@ V-8. Thanks for showing me that ANYTHING is possible with a little imagination and a lot of money.
I don't know where to begin. My target, this imaginary approximation of what I expected the car to be, was a mid-engined Corvette, but what it turned out to be was nothing like that at all. It's more like a mid-engined Viper with a way better exhaust note, substantially deeper gearing, and more leg- and head-room! The power is immediate, the thrust is tremendous, the powerband seems infinite. I'm really not supposed to go much over 3000rpm until it's broken in, and I tried to keep it under that (no tach to be certain, but I did my best) yet the torque comes on immediately and leaves no doubt as to what lies beyond. There is so much torque that letting off the gas pedal chirps the tires in first and second gears.
I was driving it with the windows down and the sunroof removed, and it was pretty loud inside, but it's only as loud outside as Archie's Stinger - yet with a much more intimidating roar to it. Archie has said for a long time that he doesn't care about audio in his V8 cars. I've been a card-carrying audiophile for over 15 years and I don't care about the audio in this car much either. The sound of that engine behind my head was an engineering symphony in its own right.
Okay, the other thing everyone's curious about is the clutch. Like I said over in Chester's clutch thread, the throwout on this SPEC Stage III clutch is dramatically shorter than stock and the Centerforce. The slave cylinder piston travel necessary to actuate it went from 1.15" to 0.375", and the pedal travel is commensurately shorter, roughly a third of what it used to be. It feels wrong when you first push on it to fire the beast, and then it is disturbing how quickly it grabs when you start to release it. The takeup is immediate. But then you start to drive it and it feels completely natural. Shifts are quick and no-nonsense, and neither the engine nor the transmission seem to object to it at all. They all work fluidly together. My initial impressions were of a clutch still brand-new from the box moving a couple of feet indoors; as I have driven it more real-world and it has started to break in, it has become much more manageable and livable in spite of its short throw and immediate takeup. However, it could just be a characteristic of the '88 hydraulics, which have a distinct feel from the earlier cars in that they tend to take less travel to actuate, both the clutch and the brakes.
Then something else weird happened. I jumped in the Corvette to drive home, and I mistook its long takeup for being in third gear instead of first. I've gone for six months without driving that car and it still felt like I drove it the day before, yet just half an hour with this SPEC clutch and it really threw me off. There's definitely some adjusting to get used to it, but once I did it made me wish the Corvette's were a lot shorter too.
That's all for now.
Dave
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11:23 AM
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
AWESOME dave, can't wait till she's broken in and you can REALLY open her up! (the zz430 supposedly is a revver.)
Gotta love that high compresson braking! (is this with the new rubber?!)
Mid-engine Corvette... From Hell...
Best! Ben.
quote
Originally posted by crazyd: I don't know where to begin. My target, this imaginary approximation of what I expected the car to be, was a mid-engined Corvette, but what it turned out to be was nothing like that at all. It's more like a mid-engined Viper with a way better exhaust note, substantially deeper gearing, and more leg- and head-room! Dave
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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01:08 PM
Sep 2nd, 2002
1986GTV8 Member
Posts: 1259 From: Orlando,FL,USA Registered: Mar 2002
Well, we retrieved my car from the body shop yesterday, incomplete and in many, many pieces. Martin decided he had no intent to finish it and finally admitted it to me. So Archie and I hauled it back to the shop and it took me yesterday and today to put it back together to a point that it's legal to drive. I got 54 test-driving miles on it this afternoon, and aside from needing a quart of oil it ran flawlessly. After I got past the 40-mile mark I was allowed to open it up, and that's when the fun really started. It pulls so hard I have trouble hanging on to the steering wheel. The torque curve is fat on the bottom, completely unlike a cammer motor, and then linear from 2500-6500. And it pulls like a freight train!
I've wound this monster all the way through fourth gear, and the clutch isn't even fully broken in yet, but it does NOT slip. Engagement in first and reverse is still a little tricky, and I'm still getting used to it, but I have no complaints at all. Its initial engagement should smooth out once it breaks in fully.
More test-driving tomorrow.
Dave
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06:24 PM
tstroud Member
Posts: 527 From: Chariton, Iowa Registered: Feb 2002
Yeah, I had a guy do that to me a few years ago on my GTO. I was supposed to pay as he got the bodywork done, I paid but he didn't get the work done. He had it a year before he finally said he wasn't going to get it done. It's still not done. He used to be a good friend. No more. (moral) Never trust your money with your friends. Especially if they discover methamphetamines.
Back on topic, I'm glad to hear your car runs so well. More pic's please.
Today, Dave has discovered one of the problems with driving a V-8 Fiero
He has discovered that it's a lot more fun to drive one than it is to come on here and talk about it.
This last post by him only took him about 3 monutes and was written between test drives. He punched "Submit Reply" and ran off for another drive.
After he wrote the text above, it was decided that he would log more miles by driving the car to his Chicago area home tonight & bring it back for some more finishing tomorrow.
Dave is kinda Crazy, kinda impatient, kinda excited, I hope he's careful & remembers that the car is officially in the "in breakin" period.
BTW, the car is officially a KICK to drive. The short throw SPEC clutch is more of an on/off switch than anything else. I know how Dave drives and I'm pretty sure that if anyone can tear up that Clutch, he's the guy. So far he's been good.
So I guess the only pics you'll see today are the ones I'll post for you.
Hey Dave don't break it just yet.... I still want to see it I just noticed something in that pic no MAF ???? Was it air density from the start or did you convert it? Have fun!
[This message has been edited by LS1swap (edited 09-11-2002).]
One more thing to add right now, this has been floating around in my head for a while. Somewhere in GM literature I saw them call the ZZ430 "legendary." I thought at the time that was just the marketing people doing their jobs. But the more I drive it, the more I'm sure it was no exaggeration. It has bottom-end torque like a big block, yet it winds like a '27, with roller smoothness and complete streetability. Although far from inexpensive, it was nearly ten grand with the fuel injection, I can't imagine doing it any other way.
I'm on the hunt for a dyno shop and a scale today, hopefully I can do it this weekend.
Weekend update: 350 miles on the swap, clutch is fully broken in. It is locked up solid in all three top gears. No slippage at all, and it clamps down like crazy. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!
Oh, and I wasted a tricked out Typhoon in my first street race on Saturday night. Poor guy didn't stand a chance.
Dave
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10:57 AM
chester Member
Posts: 4063 From: State of insanity...moved in and comfortably numb... Registered: Jun 2001
Originally posted by crazyd: Weekend update: 350 miles on the swap, clutch is fully broken in. [b]It is locked up solid in all three top gears. No slippage at all, and it clamps down like crazy. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!
Oh, and I wasted a tricked out Typhoon in my first street race on Saturday night. Poor guy didn't stand a chance.
Dave[/B]
Great to hear! Did it season any or is it still a on/off type of setup? I'd break the motor in a little more before I'd start givin it some I know it's harder said then done. Nice kill BTW.
Rob D.
I'm wondering how it will hold up to a 150 - 200 Hp spray
------------------
No motor - Soon to be a 383 V8 2.5" Drop 11" Brakes 17" Revolutions RCC Coilover Suspension New web site! www.dirtyratracing.org
[This message has been edited by chester (edited 09-16-2002).]
Originally posted by chester: Great to hear! Did it season any or is it still a on/off type of setup?
It did smooth out, and pretty quickly I might add. Archie got that instant-on impression of it because he was among the first to jump in it and try it out after we got it adjusted, when it was still brand new and the car was still in the shop. It does engage quickly, there's little fussing around like on a stock clutch, but that is mostly because of its short throw, strong clamping force and high-frictional-coefficient puck material. Once out on the road, it's a different story. Its engagement becomes completely natural after a couple rows through the gears. Think of it like the difference between a stock-length shifter and a shorty shifter.
quote
I'd break the motor in a little more before I'd start givin it some I know it's harder said then done. Nice kill BTW.
It is harder said than done, but I don't think it's really necessary. Modern engines are already run-in at the factory and need little else. Besides, I've never given an engine a "gentle" break-in, and they always go like stink. My uncle told me to break 'em in like you're going to drive 'em, and that advice has served me well.
quote
I'm wondering how it will hold up to a 150 - 200 Hp spray
My god man, when was the last time you drove a manual-transmissioned V8 Fiero?!?! On my 5sp Getrag, I'm done with first gear in about two seconds. I wouldn't be able to control everything, it all happens so fast without the juice. You need either lightning-quick, always-accurate reflexes... or an automatic transmission!
Dave
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04:13 PM
PFF
System Bot
Tina Member
Posts: 2858 From: At an elevation of 8564 feet. Registered: Nov 2000
Heh, reminds me of a great 'review' of an Audi R8 I read recently.
"Ok, so I decided that the car was warmed up, and that I'd 'hit it' on the straight this time. This is my best recolection of what transpired: I came out of the turn in second and floored it. Immediately the shift light was ON! <Bang> third, light ON! <bang> ON! <Bang!> ON! <Bang> It was only untill I hit 6th gear that I actually had a chance to do anything but move my right hand as fast as I possibly can just to keep up with the damn lights!
I took one breath and realised doing about 170 and the turn was coming up on me so I stood on the brakes, and almost broke the harness...."
Hey dave, if there's still ample torque down low, you know what that means? You can still cam it up a notch! ) ) )
Best! Ben.
quote
Originally posted by crazyd:
My god man, when was the last time you drove a manual-transmissioned V8 Fiero?!?! On my 5sp Getrag, I'm done with first gear in about two seconds. I wouldn't be able to control everything, it all happens so fast without the juice. You need either lightning-quick, always-accurate reflexes... or an automatic transmission!
Dave[/B]
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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06:09 PM
Sep 17th, 2002
FieroLT1 Member
Posts: 320 From: MilwauKee, Wisconsin, USA Registered: Nov 2000
I am expecting my phone to ring anytime now and an Archiemated voice message will say... "This is to confirm your appointment tomorrow at 8:00am for a clutch swap!"
ohhh, I can't wait....
quote
Originally posted by crazyd: Weekend update: 350 miles on the swap, clutch is fully broken in. [b]It is locked up solid in all three top gears. No slippage at all, and it clamps down like crazy. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!
Oh, and I wasted a tricked out Typhoon in my first street race on Saturday night. Poor guy didn't stand a chance.
Originally posted by crazyd: [QUOTE]I wouldn't be able to control everything, it all happens so fast without the juice. You need either lightning-quick, always-accurate reflexes... or an automatic transmission!
Dave
Nah its more fun with a manual tranny. I intend on using a progressive nitrous controller to keep the insanity level under control
Originally posted by chester: Nah its more fun with a manual tranny. I intend on using a progressive nitrous controller to keep the insanity level under control
Just my advice, build it first, then see if you really think you need more power than that! You've still got a couple months of weekend work ahead of you, take it one step at a time.
Originally posted by 30+mpg: :notworthy: How about some photos of the "sleeper" body?
It's coming back from the paint shop tomorrow for final assembly and inspection. I'm anxious to get some pictures of it posted too, as soon as it's ready I'll find a place and snap some to post here. It is a bone-stock '88 GT body and suspension (I love it just as it is) but it will be in a beautiful new color with new wheels.
Dave
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12:04 PM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
Dave asked me to post to this thread tonight. Today Dave finally had his car 100% complete. And at about 4pm this afternoon he took off for VA to meet up with his buddies and have a little "thing" with his car this weekend.
In other words he & his bud's are all gonna get together and beat on his car this weekend.
Here are some pictures
Archie
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11:31 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Wannah! Can you post MPEGs? I can't view the movies!!!
PS: If that ain't Grand Sport Blue, I dunno WHAT it is!
Car looks good though, like the wheels <GRIN, WINK, NUDGE!>
Best! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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03:15 AM
LS1swap Member
Posts: 1181 From: McHenry,IL.USA Registered: Jan 2001
Looks Great Dave I would still like to see it in person sometime.( I am on dial up so movie are tuff for me) When you take it to the dyno post the results. Don't let your friends beat on it too much. I sure you know proper break in procedures so I wont state them or lecture you on them,, but an engine ran too hard to fast leads to an oil user. What did you decide to use to break it in Dino or synthetic. I know there is always a big debate over that and I am not sure myself which is best. I opted for synthetic. I think the rings will still cut
And when he wasn't in the car between drives, he was strutting around it like new Father.
I know it's harder said then done. Nice kill BTW.
