quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: your in New Jersey eh? where at?

I was at Princeton visiting a friend at school, but just for the day. I was enroute to upstate New York for the weekend. I'm up to 2300 miles now.

On the way back yesterday I stopped at a carwash and two gas stations, and every time they either heard or saw the engine and asked me to light 'em up! Well, who was I to decline?

I've bought an MSD programmable rev limiter from Summit that is mostly installed, but I still have to tap it into the distibutor/coil wiring. Once that's done I can get on it a little more without worrying about overrevving the engine. That's why I wasn't into it full-bore in the videos.

I'm also still looking for the right venue to shoot some beauty pics, but I've got a pretty good one in mind.

Dave

Hmmm. Hard to say. Windows Multimedia is very demanding. Who knows what it's doing. I don't like the format myself, but people here were asking for it so I pitched in.
I was impressed though by the compression. The 6Mb .avi files Archie posted came down to 1.xx Mb with hardly no loss in quality at all.

I ran them all in my 1.8Ghz machine and they played flawlessly.
I love the sound. Loved it so much that I am working on a 5.1 dolby Digital version of it. Had to Matrix it though cause there are only two channels of audio on the tracks. BUT, you should hear this thing on my 200 Watts/channel Digital DTS Surround system.
YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY DIE!!!
You'll swear you are inside the car.

Anyways, I would try your other fast machine and see if it gets better.

BTW: Windows XP on a 300mhz? Wow! You are brave!

quote Originally posted by crazyd: Hey Winston, I couldn't get the video for these to work very well. WMP doesn't update the screen so I only get one or two frames of the video, and the audio is choppy. Does this format require heavy-duty hardware? I was viewing them on a 300 MHz computer with Windows XP, I left my 1.5GHz workstation in Chicago. Dave

------------------
Winston Ojeda
88 Fier Formula LT1
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
http://www.FieroLT1.com
Home of the Fiero LT1

[This message has been edited by FieroLT1 (edited 10-01-2002).]

Wow!!!!..... I wish I knew less about cars and more about computers, 'cus I'd just love to know what you just said.

Archie

quote Originally posted by FieroLT1: Hmmm. Hard to say. Windows Multimedia is very demanding. Who knows what it's doing. I don't like the format myself, but people here were asking for it so I pitched in. I was impressed though by the compression. The 6Mb .avi files Archie posted came down to 1.xx Mb with hardly no loss in quality at all. I ran them all in my 1.8Ghz machine and they played flawlessly. I love the sound. Loved it so much that I am working on a 5.1 dolby Digital version of it. Had to Matrix it though cause there are only two channels of audio on the tracks. BUT, you should hear this thing on my 200 Watts/channel Digital DTS Surround system. YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY DIE!!! You'll swear you are inside the car. Anyways, I would try your other fast machine and see if it gets better. BTW: Windows XP on a 300mhz? Wow! You are brave!

hey archie... no problem man, we'll just exchange favors. I'll build and install a computer for ya, and you can build and install an engine for me? Fair trade, right? =)

------------------

AIM: phool88fiero

quote Originally posted by FieroLT1: Hmmm. Hard to say. Windows Multimedia is very demanding. Who knows what it's doing. I ran them all in my 1.8Ghz machine and they played flawlessly.

The MPEGs play fine on this computer so I'm very suspicious of the format.

quote I love the sound. Loved it so much that I am working on a 5.1 dolby Digital version of it. Had to Matrix it though cause there are only two channels of audio on the tracks. BUT, you should hear this thing on my 200 Watts/channel Digital DTS Surround system. YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY DIE!!! You'll swear you are inside the car.

If you can get an MP3 of it, please post it!

quote BTW: Windows XP on a 300mhz? Wow! You are brave!

Don't wanna make this a computer thread, but XP just wants a lot of RAM so I gave this thing 192MB and it runs great. Rock solid.

Dave

I ran Windows NT 4.0 on a 486 DX/33 once. It ran surprisingly well, but it had 24 MB of RAM and 256K of cache.

Lots of RAM, cache especially, can go a long way toward getting a slow processor to run a large program.

I finally got the MSD programmable rev-limiter wired into the coil this afternoon. It comes with 6k, 7k, 8k & 3k (yeah, 3k--guess why) settings, and I got the 6.1-6.3-6.5-6.7-6.9k option pack too. I've got it set to 6k for a couple thousand more miles, then I'll set it to 6.5k.

It's nice to have a little more revs to wind those short Fiero gears without worrying about going too far.

Dave

i'm assuming the 3k is for a 'valet' option..

man, I need a v8...

Dave:

How goes the clutch break in?

I here that SPEC is revising the clutch that you have in your car.

How bad is the clutch chatter?

John

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Hey....that sounds awefully familiar!!!

Hey Tom,

Been thinking about this, I went back and listened to your audio clip and compared a couple of times. There is a distinct sound to a Lingenfelter engine; these two don't really sound the same at all. Mine starts with this raucous scream from 4k on that is like nothing I've ever heard before and can send shivers up your spine. It's better inside the car, I need to record some audio in a 0-80mph run sometime. Kempo's heard it, maybe he can explain it better than I can.

Dave

Heh, those 'short' gears should be good for about 190mph at your new (6.5k) redline in 5th if you ever went there

(I know what you mean though, first especially is really low. vrOM<done!> It'll be nice for me, as I won't have enormous torque off the line, but for your motor, it's gotta feel a little silly sometimes

<don't go near there before modifying the aerodynamics, our cars don't need too much, but they need SOME work done for travel at speed!>

WE WANT MORE VIDS!

Best!
Ben.

------------------

Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

quote Originally posted by artherd: (I know what you mean though, first especially is really low. vrOM<done!> It'll be nice for me, as I won't have enormous torque off the line, but for your motor, it's gotta feel a little silly sometimes

It's remarkable how much torque there actually is for a cammed 350ci mill making 430hp, and first gear goes by so quickly. However, silly isn't the word I'd use because there is so much traction. Stump-pulling, face-flattening, butt-squashing, maybe...

quote Heh, those 'short' gears should be good for about 190mph at your new (6.5k) redline in 5th if you ever went there

Been to 120, but who hasn't? I haven't done the math, but does anyone know how to calculate top theoretical speed for this car with 245/40/18 tires and Getrag gearing? And then, how much power it would take to push the car at that speed with the Cd and frontal area known?

quote <don't go near there before modifying the aerodynamics, our cars don't need too much, but they need SOME work done for travel at speed!>

I noticed that. What else, besides the headlight doors, would need to be done?

quote WE WANT MORE VIDS!

I think it'd be great if Archie could just run one long video of all the stuff he shot, in case something juicy might've gotten edited out. <hint hint> But I don't have a video camera, and I haven't gotten the other pics I took developed yet. Working on it, but that's all we've got...

Dave

[This message has been edited by crazyd (edited 10-05-2002).]

quote Originally posted by crazyd:

[/b]
Been to 120, but who hasn't? I haven't done the math, but does anyone know how to calculate top theoretical speed for this car with 245/40/18 tires and Getrag gearing? And then, how much power it would take to push the car at that speed with the Cd and frontal area known?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well this will be the third time that I have give the formula for MPH some where on in the forum, but here it goes, again.

MPH = rpm x tire diameter
(divided by)
gear ratio x final drive ratio x 336

example: my car is a 86GT with a fifth gear of .072 and a 3.61 final drive, I also have 21 inch tires on it so, if I was at 5500 RPM my MPH would be as follows.

5500 x21(inch tires)= 115500
0.72 x 3.61 x 336 = 873.3312
115500 (divided by) 873.3312 =132.25223
so I would be doing 132 MPH at 5500 RPM in my car, hope this helps.

Very cool, thanks for posting the formula. Based on my tire height of 25.8" (from tirerack.com) it'd be 186mph. That's plenty fast. So, next question, how much power would it take to overcome the aerodynamics of that speed? Does anyone know the Cd and frontal area of the GTs, and the formula to estimate that?

Dave

Now you are teasing us LOL. What does the hint, hint stand for ???

Given the complex shapes I think it would be nearly impossible to figure out with out a wind tunnel. I think a chin spoiler, and a hood vent in back of the radiator would be a good start. Less air pressure under the car and more over
------------------
LS1 in and running

http://ls1swap.tripod.com/

[This message has been edited by LS1swap (edited 10-06-2002).]

LS1Swap has the right idea, get the air OUT from under the car. 1" taller ride height in rear will help (think your car is there)

The biggies will be ventelated hood (Archie/Warber style, or, I had a thought to vent into the wheelhouses to keep the stock body lines.)

Chin spoiler (of some kind, to decrease the 'scooping' of air under the car in front) will be very beneficial, and possibly reduce the total area of the GT nose's radiator intake a bit (it's a bit bigger than it needs to be, bigger than the 87/88 notchbacks even.)

HP required? Uh, I have no doubt you'll be able to bounce off 186mph if you wanted. You have similar power, and drag, coefficents to the F40 Ferrari. (!)

Best!
Ben.

------------------

Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

quote Originally posted by crazyd: Very cool, thanks for posting the formula. Based on my tire height of 25.8" (from tirerack.com) it'd be 186mph. That's plenty fast. So, next question, how much power would it take to overcome the aerodynamics of that speed? Does anyone know the Cd and frontal area of the GTs, and the formula to estimate that? Dave

88GT-----0.365 cd
88 coupe-0.357 cd
I will need some time to locate the formula if I do have one on file, if not these numbers should help if anyone else has the formulas.

quote Originally posted by crazyd: Hey Tom, Mine starts with this raucous scream from 4k on that is like nothing I've ever heard before and can send shivers up your spine. It's better inside the car, I need to record some audio in a 0-80mph run sometime. Dave

It's probably coming from your air intake system. I get a similar noise around the same rpm that didn't get picked up in the recording, it's high frequency that you almost feel more than you hear. Don't know where your filter is positioned, but mine is just in front of the right rear tire, right behind the side scoop. It's a good location for cooler air, but sometimes I think it would be kool to make a special tuned air inlet on the decklid for some awesome noise while driving. With the current location you can hear a nasty loud snake-like hiss when the car is at idle.

Regarding the top speed issue, I haven't max'd mine out yet, have only taken it to 165mph (still felt glued to the road). As stated above, body drop will help, chin spoiler very important (may even want to back it up with some thin aluminum plate), some form of aerodynamic air venting behind radiator, and don't forget to duct tape those headlamp doors down!

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-06-2002).]

Pics just added:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/022405.html

quote Originally posted by crazyd: Mine starts with this raucous scream from 4k on that is like nothing I've ever heard before and can send shivers up your spine.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: It's probably coming from your air intake system. I get a similar noise around the same rpm that didn't get picked up in the recording, it's high frequency that you almost feel more than you hear.

There's a faint high-frequency whistle that comes from the throttle plates opening and sucking air, but this 4k+ scream is all engine.

quote Don't know where your filter is positioned, but mine is just in front of the right rear tire, right behind the side scoop. It's a good location for cooler air, but sometimes I think it would be kool to make a special tuned air inlet on the decklid for some awesome noise while driving. With the current location you can hear a nasty loud snake-like hiss when the car is at idle.

The air filter is positioned under the right-side decklid vent, and doesn't make too much noise.

If I could keep that left headlight door from popping up I'd consider higher speeds, 140+ doesn't scare me. But there's definitely some pressure building up under the hood at 110+.

Dave

[This message has been edited by crazyd (edited 10-07-2002).]

Hey Dave!

I WILL get a ride on Saturday, won't I?

------------------

Mid Atlantic Fiero Owners Association
New England Fiero Association
Keystone State Chapter, P.O.C.I.
P.O.C.I.

It's gonna be raining

quote Originally posted by crazyd: [BDoes anyone know the Cd and frontal area of the GTs, and the formula to estimate that?[/B]

Drag = 1/391 Cd x A x v²

Cd = ~0.35 (~0.4 without wing), A = ~18ft²

Thanks for digging up that formula, Cliff, now if we can just translate that into how much torque is necessary to overcome that much drag we'll be there!

I found some more pics that I wanted to post.

Early images of the '88 GT auto donor car:

And, those beautiful GMPP 1.6 roller rockers:

Cheers,
Crazy Dave

I just received the dyno data from Sallee Chevrolet this A.M. It's in chart form, so I'll leave it to somebody with more time than me to graph it if anyone feels so inclined. This is with a Holley 750cfm Double Pumper carb, a full exhaust, but no air filter or accessories such as alternator, water pump or compressor.

code:

---

08/02/99  1:38pm  28.54"  95F

RPM   CTORQ   CPWR   A/F
2189  346.3  144.3  13.54
2300  358.1  156.8  13.51 
2400  365.0  166.8  13.37
2500  372.0  177.1  12.68
2600  380.6  188.4  13.42
2748  387.3  202.6  13.88
2800  Too Fast - No Data
2874  388.6  212.6  12.82
3000  385.5  220.2  12.41
3100  380.2  224.4  12.37
3200  376.2  229.2  11.54
3300  380.5  239.1  10.62
3400  391.0  253.1  10.10
3500  396.6  264.3  11.20
3600  404.2  277.1  11.89
3700  413.5  291.3  12.78
3800  417.9  302.5  13.80
3900  422.7  313.9  14.24
4000  428.2  326.2  14.19
4100  431.1  336.6  13.93
4200  432.2  345.6  13.70
4300  432.4  354.1  13.77
4400  433.7  363.4  13.48
4500  436.1  373.7  13.28
4600  429.5  376.2  13.33
4700  431.8  386.4  13.63
4800  426.8  390.0  13.82
4900  423.4  395.0  14.28
5000  422.3  402.0  14.33
5100  420.1  408.0  14.31
5200  419.7  415.6  14.63
5300  416.1  419.8  14.45
5400  412.8  424.4  14.49
5500  406.2  425.4  14.37
5600  404.4  431.2  14.37
5700  396.6  430.4  14.30
5800  394.2  435.3  14.38
5900  390.3  438.4  14.99
6014  374.6  428.9  15.07
6100  Too Fast-No Data
6210  377.3  446.1  15.15
6300  368.7  442.2  15.39
6400  364.5  444.2  15.17
6513  355.9  441.4  15.29

Peak  436.1  446.1

---

[This message has been edited by crazyd (edited 10-31-2002).]

CrazyD,

Here's a web page for an online speed calculator. You need Microsoft excel to use it. http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/topspeed.html

quote Originally posted by crazyd: I just received the dyno data from Sallee Chevrolet this A.M. It's in chart form, so I'll leave it to somebody with more time than me to graph it if anyone feels so inclined. This is with a Holley 750cfm Double Pumper carb, a full exhaust, but no air filter or accessories such as alternator, water pump or compressor. code: 08/02/99 1:38pm 28.54" 95F RPM CTORQ CPWR A/F 2189 346.3 144.3 13.54 2300 358.1 156.8 13.51 2400 365.0 166.8 13.37 2500 372.0 177.1 12.68 2600 380.6 188.4 13.42 2748 387.3 202.6 13.88 2800 Too Fast - No Data 2874 388.6 212.6 12.82 3000 385.5 220.2 12.41 3100 380.2 224.4 12.37 3200 376.2 229.2 11.54 3300 380.5 239.1 10.62 3400 391.0 253.1 10.10 3500 396.6 264.3 11.20 3600 404.2 277.1 11.89 3700 413.5 291.3 12.78 3800 417.9 302.5 13.80 3900 422.7 313.9 14.24 4000 428.2 326.2 14.19 4100 431.1 336.6 13.93 4200 432.2 345.6 13.70 4300 432.4 354.1 13.77 4400 433.7 363.4 13.48 4500 436.1 373.7 13.28 4600 429.5 376.2 13.33 4700 431.8 386.4 13.63 4800 426.8 390.0 13.82 4900 423.4 395.0 14.28 5000 422.3 402.0 14.33 5100 420.1 408.0 14.31 5200 419.7 415.6 14.63 5300 416.1 419.8 14.45 5400 412.8 424.4 14.49 5500 406.2 425.4 14.37 5600 404.4 431.2 14.37 5700 396.6 430.4 14.30 5800 394.2 435.3 14.38 5900 390.3 438.4 14.99 6014 374.6 428.9 15.07 6100 Too Fast-No Data 6210 377.3 446.1 15.15 6300 368.7 442.2 15.39 6400 364.5 444.2 15.17 6513 355.9 441.4 15.29 Peak 436.1 446.1

[This message has been edited by crazyd (edited 10-31-2002).]

---

I think everyone was waiting for YOUR dyno numbers not some off the wall spec sheet.

I'm waiting for them too Rob, but for now this'll have to do until we get the production details nailed down for the TV show. I think it is significant since it was performed by an independent facility, even though it isn't wheel hp. Figure about 20-30hp for accessories (maybe someone who works at a dyno shop can verify this), then figure about 85% of that makes it to the wheels through a 5-sp Getrag.

Dave

Just get some numbers from the dyno.

------------------

1987 GT 5 spd: 2.8L
(15.57 @ 87mph)
1988 Formula 5 spd: 3.4
(15.56 @ 84mph)

Crazy
I notice you guys have gotta lot of Fieros in the yard. Any for sale? I'm a college student who's really into Fieros and looking for a decent priced 86-88GT, do you have anything you could sell me? I'm lookin for a good fixer upper. Let me know, I appreciate it. Thanks

Chris
vagn7053@kutztown.edu

quote Originally posted by 1987FieroGTFastback: Crazy I notice you guys have gotta lot of Fieros in the yard. Any for sale? Chris vagn7053@kutztown.edu

Just as a point of order. You use the term "you guys" I take it that you mean V-8 Archie & whoever. Please note that The only car in Dave's pictures that he has complete (or even partial) control over is the car he is showing in his pictures. All of the other cars, trailers, trucks, Fieros, parts, tools, buildings etc. are either mine or are owned by other customers of mine. And at the time those pictures were taken those items were under my control. Dave is a visitor/customer at our shop, nothing more nothing less.

As far as running stock Fieros for sale at this time, I don't have any other than one '86 GT automatic car.

Archie

Weighed the cars today, my total weight gain was 30lbs. See this thread for the details:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/023260.html

Dave

quote Originally posted by crazyd: Upon completion, this car will be weighed directly against my silver 88 GT 5-speed, hopefully settling forever the weight question of a small-block Chevy engine conversion.

That seemed like such a simple idea at the time.

Hey Dave
So when will the show air??? I was corresponding with bill at msutv and he was saying that there was going to be another show on the Fiero. Something on an LT1 install, and some footage at great lakes. Is this the one you were talking about?

P.S. don't you guys know that a SBC adds about five thousands pounds to a fiero LOL

quote Originally posted by LS1swap: Hey Dave So when will the show air??? I was corresponding with bill at msutv and he was saying that there was going to be another show on the Fiero. Something on an LT1 install, and some footage at great lakes. Is this the one you were talking about? P.S. don't you guys know that a SBC adds about five thousands pounds to a fiero LOL

This show you are talking about will air tomorrow. Dave wasn't in that one...... I think Chuck said that it is the last in a series on Chucks' LT1 install and a bit of video from GLakes.

Archie

Archie

Channel/time?? I would like to see it...

quote Originally posted by Tweek: Channel/time?? I would like to see it...

Turn your antenna towards Chicago and read this http://www.msutv.com/

Archie

Thanks! Archie I always end up missing his show. ( I forget when it is on)

Tweek and all those not in the Chicago area Motor sports unlimited is a local cable show. It is very good even though it is kind of low budget. It deals with all kinds of motorsports. The guy that runs it is very knowledgeable. one week he will be talking about Norton motorcycles the next may be boats and then even the Fiero LOL. Heaven forbid a guest that starts talking over his head. The host will shut him down and correct him quickly (which is a good thing) just funny at times. He deals allot with the obscure. When you first see the show you say what the..... But then realize the info behind it is very good. You have to see it sometime and you will know exactly what I am talking about.