Ok well i have a 305 sitting around in my garage so i figured i would do a complete rebuild and throw it into my fiero now.... i was just wondering what is everything i will need to know about this swap? Problems that come from putting it in and also what am i looking at for power? I saw a few people say that this isnt a great swap but hell its lots of power lol.... anyone have any good sites about this or anything .... THANKS

I did a 305 TPI swap into my 88 Automatic a few years ago. The TPI has great off-the-line power. If you're using the Fiero auto, have it beefed up to handle the torque. I used a Zumalt kit with great results. I sold the car to a friend and he still has it. If I had the space, I would seriously consider buying it back. You need to contact V-8 Archie. He is the best deal going today. He can answer all of your questions and supply you with evrything.
Good Luck,
Kevin

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85 Fiero-based ASPP GT-40 MarkII. 3800 S/C, Auto, Held suspension all around with 2" drop spindles and sport fr. end. RCC bump-steer correction. Mr. Mike's interior.

Well what exactly am i looking at getting from him... just like the things to make the engine fit or what? and also what kind of tranny should i look for.... i have the auto right now .... will my current tranny be able to handle the power of the 305?
also i was wondering the kind power you saw from the 305.... is it anything like the 3800 S/C swap more powerful less powerful???

[This message has been edited by CRNF2 (edited 01-28-2004).]

The 305 had incredible launches! (probably why the trans didn't last). The stock trans blew about 6 months after I sold the car. A friend had a "beefed-up" T-125 for sale for $600. My friend bought it and we put it in at my house one afternoon. I don't know where the trans came from but I know people on this site can help you there.
The 3800 SC is also a nice swap. You can use the trans from the donor car too. There's no question about weather the trans will handle it. My 3800 SC came from a 95 Buick Riviera and is totaly stock and runs pretty good. I hear there is a lot of potential for these engines, but I prefer reliability right now. But I know that will change... you never have enough! If you consider the 3800 SC, hold out for the series II. I have a series I, and there isn't as much available for it.
Archie can sell you a kit with everything you need to install a SBC. He has been doing it for years and has answered every question.

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85 Fiero-based ASPP GT-40 MarkII. 3800 S/C, Auto, Held suspension all around with 2" drop spindles and sport fr. end. RCC bump-steer correction. Mr. Mike's interior.

well which one would you say has more power.... you said the 305 had an incredible "launch" but how does the power of the 305 compare to the 3800 you have now.... which one has more power to it overall???

Pardon the delay and the 2 very close profile names. This is my name at home, the other is at work.
The SBC was definately more impressive. If I had it to do over, I would have used a 350. Like I say, you never have enough.
Kevin

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67 GT-40 Mark II, 3800 S/C auto, 85 Fiero based (ASPP) kit. Held suspension and coil-overs all around with 2" dropped spindles. Mike's leather interior. And a whole lot more...

Just like was stated ,get the Info. from Archie. I did a 350 swap and he was the only person with all the answers. The trans needs to be in good shape the handle the ftlbs of torque from a sbc. I'm having one done,can send info if you need it. I can tell you the felling is GREAT !!!

Jim

In all honesty I wouldnt bother with a 305. I have an LT1 with a tranny out of a Caddy, Its perfect IMO. I saw a thread a while ago, where a 305 was run at the track that was in a fiero. He ran a low 16. If you debating a 305 to a sc3800, the 3800 is deffinelty better IMO. BUT, that being said, you can install the 305, and save up for a nice 350. I really cant help you with the install, pretty much everything in my swap is custom due to the tranny.

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The swap. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/045554.html

No matter what you think or any way you look at it, the 3800sc Series II will outperform a 305 anyday. If you are doing a V8 swap I would definitely recommend a 350 SBC. No other way to go, a 305 will probably get you into the high 14's but nothing more. A 3800sc Series II will put you into the low 13s and then the mods come. Its your call.

-Amir

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Maroon 1987 GT 5 spd: 2.8L
Ferrari Red 1988 Formula 5 spd: 3800 Series II Supercharged In & Running.....

My Website: http://www.members.cox.net/rare88/
CarDomain Website: http://www.cardomain.com/id/rare87gt

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 01-28-2004).]

i am also kinda interested in this. i have a donor 305 that's sittin around from one of my old cars. runs pretty well, just needs a slight rebuild, nuthin major, just some gaskets, maybe rings. after that all i need is a new 4 bbl intake and i have a brand new edelbrock 600 cfm carb to bolt on that's never been used...still in the box. as for the tranny, there is an adapter plate that you can buy so it will bolt up to the SBC's bell housing and i would STRONGLY recommend getting it rebuilt to handle the new torque.

what i wanna know about is mounting it...is it just a matter of some custom motor mounts or is it more technical?? also is it small enuf to fit under the deck lid...i really don't want to do any modification to that. and finally, do you need a new fuel pump??

i think i'm done now

www.v8archie.com

Any answers you can't get there you can get from Archie himself.

Depending on the size of the air cleaner you're using and the height of the carb, it should fit under or you might have to cut a whole and put a scoop over it.

Go with the 305. CarCraft mag built one that gave 600+HP with a Turbo just to prove all the naysayers against the 305. It is all in the parts. You can built a decent 305 if you want. Or just drop what you have and you will be more than halfway done to swap it for a 350 later on.

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

Yeh, theres a 305 TPI at a wreckers just down the road I have my eye on for a swap. Really, any V8 will get me in more trouble than I can handle. I just want more power than this wimpy V6. I won't even mod the 305 cause a) it'll cost even more money I don't have and b) it'll be plenty fast.

Can't a 305 be bored out to a 350 or 383, the TPI 305's in the 25th anniversary camaros are awesome motors they make 230 HP that pretty damn good, and they are really quiet motors too, so you can completely keep the sleeper look, my duke makes more noise then a 305 TPI. I say go for the 305 you'll love it. Also in 92 the TPI 305 had 230 HP and the 350 had 245 HP not a big difference to me.

If the motor is a 305 TBI ditch the project in a second those motors are nothing my friend with an auto 92 RS camaro barely beats me in a straight line with that motor and i drive an oil puking duke.

[This message has been edited by Comealongway (edited 01-28-2004).]

No, you can't bore a 305 block to 4". The small bore size is what hurts the performance. You can get power out of a 305 but 350s are cheap and easier. Yes, using an intake designed for a 305 will limit a 350.

GL

Its a 305 TPI out of an '86 Camaro, and any way you swing it its a V8 with something like twice the power of my V6. And, if its under 280 hp, then its still in the safe range of the Getrag transmission according to thier site. Sounding more and more like the best swap for me.

I had an 88 IROC Z several years ago and that engine had enough power to impress anyone that ever rode in it with me. Mine had the 305 TPI and was rated, if memory serves, at 220 hp, I don't have a clue what the torque rating was. I do have a young dumb memory of burying the 145mph speedo on a dark stretch of North Dakota road! I believe the Camaro's Aluminum block 350 option was only rated at a mere 20 hp more. The aluminum block and heads of the 350 made for a large weight savings i'm sure, but my 305 was sweet with a very broad power band. I can only imagine what my fiero would be like with my old motor....

I was always under the impression that the 305 block was pretty much the same except for the stroke and heads, just like the 2.8L and the 3.1L. Am I wrong?

Just shooting from the hip here guys don't flame my facts too badly ;-)

It was a Black with gold pinstripes, 1988 IROC Z, 350 TPI, hardtop, loaded, 6 speed manual, Goodyear P245 VR 16s, Man I miss that car....

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John Christopherson

Check out my homepage

"When facts and theory disagree, I implore you to respect the facts."

                                                                                     –Igor Sikorsky

quote Originally posted by Tugboat: No, you can't bore a 305 block to 4". The small bore size is what hurts the performance. You can get power out of a 305 but 350s are cheap and easier. Yes, using an intake designed for a 305 will limit a 350. GL

I hope you realize that the 305 and 350 TPI intakes are the EXACT same (GM did that from the Factory)... the only diff is the Fuel injectors (well that and the ECM programming)... so dont pay more just because it says its a 350 TPI manifold...

-Darius

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: No matter what you think or any way you look at it, the 3800sc Series II will outperform a 305 anyday. If you are doing a V8 swap I would definitely recommend a 350 SBC. No other way to go, a 305 will probably get you into the high 14's but nothing more. A 3800sc Series II will put you into the low 13s and then the mods come. Its your call. -Amir

Not so it all comes down how far you want to go with a 305 $$$ wise any engine can be made to go fast .

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Tuners of the Quickest 4.9
12.51@118 mph

4.5/4.9 (RSR)Hi Perf. Caddi-V8 Fully Blueprint&Balanced Rotating Assembly
Custom Intake Manifold
Custom Machined Heads
Victor Reinz Head Gaskets
50-150HP Nos Power Shot.
Holley 510-0-4412C Carb.

quote Originally posted by Unltd1: I hope you realize that the 305 and 350 TPI intakes are the EXACT same (GM did that from the Factory)... the only diff is the Fuel injectors (well that and the ECM programming)... so dont pay more just because it says its a 350 TPI manifold... -Darius

That's exactly what I meant, it's sized for a 305 and is restrictive on a 350.

The deal on a 305 is it's got the same crank as a 350, but much smaller bore, 3.736. You can't run bigger than a 1.94 intake valve, and that's pretty well shrouded by the cylinder wall. They're also more knock sensitive than a 350. They were designed for economy, not performance. If you want more than stock performance, it's usually cheaper and easier to get a given amount of performance from a 350.

But if you've got a 305 and think it would give you acceptable performance as is, go ahead and use it. You can always change it later.

GL

quote Originally posted by Tugboat: That's exactly what I meant, it's sized for a 305 and is restrictive on a 350. The deal on a 305 is it's got the same crank as a 350, but much smaller bore, 3.736. You can't run bigger than a 1.94 intake valve, and that's pretty well shrouded by the cylinder wall. They're also more knock sensitive than a 350. They were designed for economy, not performance. If you want more than stock performance, it's usually cheaper and easier to get a given amount of performance from a 350. But if you've got a 305 and think it would give you acceptable performance as is, go ahead and use it. You can always change it later. GL

Yeah he's right.. if you have it, and think the power/economy factor would be ok for you..then use it

on another note:
the cranks can be swapped.
but they are not Identical, even though the main and rod journals are the same, and the stroke and casting number are also the same
the cranks are balanced differently for the difference in reciprocating mass (more weight on the 350s crank.)

I have a book somewhere that has a method to finding which crank you have (say you got it at a swap meet or something..) it was quite a simple method from what I recall...I'll find it and post the how too if anyone is interested.

-Darius

Actually, I've worked at a machine shop that did a good amount of crank work (I've unloaded and cleaned cranks that barely fit in a full size pickup) and they said that isn't a sure way to tell.

GL

Parts to rebuild a 305 are really expensive, usually more than a good running 350.

If you are going to add all the extra weight from a SBC, I'd get a 350 so you can buy replacement parts at a corner 7-11.

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-Vinny

87 Fiero GT 202k miles on the 2.8, just waiting to have an excuse for a swap
94 Infiniti Q45t (wife's car: 278 hp, RWD & LSD , leather)

I am thinking of using a SBC to put in my 86 sometime down the road. I was thinking of a 305 carb'd. I mostly want the SBC for the looks and sound. Would a stock 305 with a 4bbl carb get any better gas mileage with a stock 350 4bbl? Also, do any V8 motors fit the same, or is it better to get a car motor, truck motor?

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Details on my Fiero here
Member of the Edmonto Fiero Club Please rate me if I helped you!

I'm also doing a 305 swap in my 84se auto. my thought is everyone is putting lt1,350's,n*, 3800 stuff like that. I think people have overlooked the 305. its still a sbc, you can use all the same excessories as the 350's intakes stuff like that. plus the lower torque ft.pds. will help in trans longevity. I took my trans to my local trans shop and all they did when i told them i was using a 305 in my fiero is they took the trans and turned up the line pressure replaced old gaskets gave it a fluid and filter change and sent me on my way. this trans shop has been in buisness for 75 years I don't think they would do this little bit to the trans if they thought i'd be back, what i mean is they trust these little automatics with this torque, and would've rebuilt it if they needed too. i say go with the 305 its cheaper in the long run, plus its going to be alot of fun.. -gary-

Wow... so much wierd info here!

1) The 305 can be stroked - but only to 335 go to www.enginekits.com for more details (shown to add 95hp on a carb'd motor, and 115hp on a FI motor) Ref: Super Chevy Magazine March 1999

2) The TPI intake, as mentioned, is exactly the same item for both the 305 and 350. Making changes (bigger runners, bigger TB, etc) will not be hugely beneficial to the performance of the engine without further modifications (heads, etc).

3) The 305 is not a "weak" or "economy" motor (heck, it was the "big" motor available for the '84 Firebird - which was also available with a 2.5L Duke ).

4) There have been a number of people who have installed 305s in their Fieros out of convience (it's sitting in the garage and needs a car to go into). Heck, Roger Garrison's "Raptor" started out it's V8 life with a Carb'd 305 (only to be replaced by him with a monster of a 383). There is even a bright Green GT around this area (not mine!) that has a 305 TPI motor - and it certainly gets up & goes.

4) 305V8 vs. 3800 SII - A stock-for-stock comparison of these motors would lend to much more-similar track times. Also, times will vary with altititude, weather, etc... not really a good comparison. That, and telling someone to go with a 3800SII when he's got a 305 TPI sitting in his garage is just not economical.

5) Engine Mounts: if you purchase Archie's kit, you'll find the custom front mount included in the package - you should be able to re-use the tranny mounts with little minor modifications (I'd suggest you purchase and check out his VHS tape if you're serious about trying a SBC swap... it'll answer more questions than you thought you ever had).

6) The TH125 can handle the power for awhile - but it is definitely recommend that you have it rebuilt with the expectation of a bit more power - it'll be beneficial in the long run. Another option would be to take the opportunity to get a 440T4/4T60 4psd Auto tranny to mate to it... it too can be built to handle the extra power (search for Troy Ritchie and you'll see some cool stuff his V8 car can do!).

7) (not flaming here, just informing) There has never been a "factory" optioned All-Aluminum SBC - but there have been a number of forms of Aluminum-headed V8's (available in 'vettes primarily). There is definitely a weight difference in the motors, but not much difference performance-wise in the stock form. Aluminum SBC Race Blocks are available through companies like Merlin - but cost more than most of us are looking to spend for a non-race use.

So yeah... that's my lecture today on the 305 Chevy V8

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Looking for Fiero posters?

Well my plan is becoming solidified now. This summer I shall have:

86 Fiero GT
305 TPI V8
Getrag/Muncie 4spd manual

I'll stick with the 305 for several reasons. Its a V8, and I've always wanted one of those. It came out of a Camaro, and I almost bought one of those. Its TPI and 86 or newer, so it'll meet smog regs in CA. It has less displacement than a 350, 383, etc. so its guarenteed to have at least slightly better fuel economy. It has less than 280 hp stock, which is the highest rated safe hp for the Getrag transmission, according to their website. Finally, it will have nearly twice the hp and torque of my 2.8, and thats just a good thing any way you swing it. If the 2.8 can put a grin on my face, I can't wait to see what a 305 will do.

[This message has been edited by Fastback 86 (edited 01-29-2004).]

That low 16 sec pass with a 305 in a fiero is pathetic a person with down syndrome in a f-body could pull that off with a 90' 305 TBI ralley sport.Im sure a 305 TPI can whoop a 4.9 and the 4.9 is definatley the motor that should be used as a boat anchor.

ok well this is a 305 from a 79 el camino so i know there isnt much poewr too it but would i be able to super charge it and still have it fit in the space???

quote Originally posted by L44_87GT: That low 16 sec pass with a 305 in a fiero is pathetic a person with down syndrome in a f-body could pull that off with a 90' 305 TBI ralley sport.Im sure a 305 TPI can whoop a 4.9 and the 4.9 is definatley the motor that should be used as a boat anchor.

Although I agree that a 16 second pass would require a rather large amount of driver error or a mechanical malfunction... Why the need to bash the 4.9L? It's a great, inexpensive motor. And a relatively easy swap - I'd glady do one for regular use myself (I'm actually helping my Dad with his). And if you look at the work people like Rockcrawl, Master Tuner Akimoto, PBJ, and even BubbaJoeX have done to the 4.9L - you'll find your "boat motor" statement to be in rather poor taste.

I believe that the 4.9L and the 305 (a 5.0L) in stock form with simliar intakes (the 4.9 is stock with a TBI or PFI in pretty much everything except the Allante) wouldn't be too far off in basic performance numbers.

quote Originally posted by CRNF2: ok well this is a 305 from a 79 el camino so i know there isnt much poewr too it but would i be able to super charge it and still have it fit in the space???

Supercharging (which would be extremely difficult to do and too expensive for a "budget" swap) really isn't necessary. If you have the right intake, heads, & cam setup... the 305 should give you plenty of power. If it's still not enough, a small shot of nitrous is always good for a healthy kick in the pants.

[This message has been edited by MinnGreenGT (edited 01-30-2004).]

I have a 305 in my Fiero and I love it. It looks just as good as a 350

I dont think a 305 would beat a 4.9. My friend has a monte carlo SS with a 305, and my 2.8 would beat it. But I do think the 305 would sound better.

quote Originally posted by Mr. Pat: I dont think a 305 would beat a 4.9. My friend has a monte carlo SS with a 305, and my 2.8 would beat it. But I do think the 305 would sound better.

That's a bit of a generalization Pat... not all motors with the same displacement are equal (think 350s ). It depends more on the donor vehicle/intake/etc...

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: 3) The 305 is not a "weak" or "economy" motor (heck, it was the "big" motor available for the '84 Firebird - which was also available with a 2.5L Duke ).

Why do you think they went to the 305 from the 350? Not because it was a better motor....

Real performance died in the early '70s and didn't come back until the late '80s. The hopped up 305s just didn't cut it, they brought back the 350.

GL

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: That's a bit of a generalization Pat... not all motors with the same displacement are equal (think 350s ). It depends more on the donor vehicle/intake/etc...

True, it was carbed also. Ill have to claim ignorance on this one, I dont recal ever being in a TPI 305 powered car before.

By all means, if you have a perfectly running 305 sitting in your garage looking for a home, toss it into the fiero. I think both SBC's will make enough power and noise to satisfy most people and test the durability limits of the rest of the fiero powertrain.

I just wouldn't spend much money to rebuild a 305, parts are really expensive and it's not that good of a motor with that tiny bore in my opinion.

Please don't turn this into another SBC vs 4.9 thread.....

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-Vinny

87 Fiero GT 202k miles on the 2.8, just waiting to have an excuse for a swap
94 Infiniti Q45t (wife's car: 278 hp, RWD & LSD , leather)

quote Originally posted by Tugboat: Why do you think they went to the 305 from the 350? Not because it was a better motor.... Real performance died in the early '70s and didn't come back until the late '80s. The hopped up 305s just didn't cut it, they brought back the 350.

Why? Because GM has always been constantly evolving the "Small Block Chevy" powerplant... They didn't upgrade from the 1955 266ci powerplant because it was "junk" - but because there was something better out there. Political and environmental issues also weigh heavily on auto manufacturers - but that's getting into a whole different realm.

GM did use the 305 as an "economy" version of the 350 for a period of time... but it was by no means a true economy motor (which as I mentioned, is why they offered the same car with a 2.5L Duke, the 2.8L V6, and the 305 for a period of time).

quote Originally posted by psychic_mechanic: I just wouldn't spend much money to rebuild a 305, parts are really expensive and it's not that good of a motor with that tiny bore in my opinion. Please don't turn this into another SBC vs 4.9 thread.....

I too would agree to not spend much on "upgrading" the 305 (unless you're specifically trying to prove a point - as Super Chevy Magazine did back in '99)... If the 305 goes, pick up a cheap 350 block and swap the top end over!

Ditto on staying away from the SBC vs 4.9L stuff - one of those threads was more than enough!

I personally dont care which engine you swap in, but i will note that, putting a v8 in a fiero in california is not all that easy, you need to read up on that more, before you even attemped removing your cradle bolts..... You will quickly figure out why 90% of californians do a 3800 SC swap or a 3.4L DOHC swap.

a transverse v8 is a very very very large pain in the ass for a californian to get past your inspection people.

not that i have any experience with it, but i read more post's each day than most on here probably read in a week, Sometimes ill read them 2-3 times to make sure i get all the information.

matthew

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Yes, I've been looking into that m0sh_man and debating the swap for a while. However, if you dig up TKs thread in the Tech section about CA recertification with a V8 and a manual, you'll see that the BAR approved it under the conditions that all smog equipment is properly installed and operational, and a few other stipulations. The motor I have my eye on meets all those requirements, provided I install it right. And, its only a PITA to get it registered if you get an anal smog ref. The guy I always go to is totally kick back. He looks it over and puts it on the sniffer and away I go. There's another V8 Fiero near my house thats been certified for a while now.