quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: Why? Because GM has always been constantly evolving the "Small Block Chevy" powerplant... They didn't upgrade from the 1955 266ci powerplant because it was "junk" - but because there was something better out there. Political and environmental issues also weigh heavily on auto manufacturers - but that's getting into a whole different realm. GM did use the 305 as an "economy" version of the 350 for a period of time... but it was by no means a true economy motor (which as I mentioned, is why they offered the same car with a 2.5L Duke, the 2.8L V6, and the 305 for a period of time).

It's funny you should compare it to evolution, the "selective pressure" that produced the 305 was the gas shortage. Remember CAFE standards? They sold smaller motors but we still wanted V8s, so they made them smaller.

GL

305 parts are NOT EXPENSIVE!!! I rebuilt my 89 305 for $300. It is a factory roller motor and it made my 81 Impala run 17 sec 1/4 mile times. My dad has a 305 in his 62 Acadian and he can beat 350's all day long. His is also a inexpensive motor. You can easily get 300 hp out of a 305 using the right parts. the 80's 305's are dogs but if you can pick up a 90's 305 you can get some decent power out of them. I put a alum edlebroch intake and a Q-jet on mine to cut out all the computer junk. The 89 with centerbolt valve covers also has a fuel pump boss so if you put in a non fuel inject cam you can bolt a mech fuel pump to the block and run youre carb off that. I chose to retain the roller cam so I put a elec pump on instead. Make sure you use a high quality pump. My Carter has worked flawlessly for 3 years now.

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85 GT 4 speed 2.8L auto X'er

[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 01-30-2004).]

ok well .... first question is.... why would a supercharger not be worth it??? i mean what if i do all the upgrade AND a supercharger???

and as for my second question.... you are all saying this year and that year is better or worse and like i said the engine i have is from a 79.... so is it any good?? i mean this is a free engine!!!.... what i was thinking is just throwing it in as is and wait on another motor!!!

but again is the 79 any good???

[This message has been edited by CRNF2 (edited 01-30-2004).]

quote Originally posted by red85gt: My dad has a 305 in his 62 Acadian and he can beat 350's all day long.

Sorry, but it's just a fact that a larger motor with the same mods will make more power than a smaller one.

Supercharging a 305 probably isn't the best idea because of the knock issues. Supercharging any V8 in a Fiero will run into problems with the drive - where would it go? 3800s are shorter.

I would go ahead and pop the 305 in. If it's close to what you want, a few mods may do the trick. If it's not close, start looking for a bigger engine. It might be easier to certify the 305 and then swap, if they don't check too carefully.

GL

quote Originally posted by Tugboat: Actually, I've worked at a machine shop that did a good amount of crank work (I've unloaded and cleaned cranks that barely fit in a full size pickup) and they said that isn't a sure way to tell. GL

what isnt a good way? to tell by weight?? here is the method..

"Lay the crank down Horizontally and position a straightedge along the machined surfaces of the crank (as shown in a picture). A 305 crank will allow the straightedge to lay flat across all five points. A 350 crank will not allow the straight edge to sit flat."

The book this is from is "John Lingenfelter on modifying small-block chevy engines" Pg. 30

if anyone needs the picture let me know and I can scan it..

-Darius

As I was saying, that isn't a sure way to tell, according to people who grind cranks. The only way to be sure is to know where the crank came from. You can always rebalance the crank, but it's better to start with the right one.

GL

It all depends on how the engine is built. There was a great write up quite a while back that looked at what GM should have done when designing the the mainstay small block. A bunch of engeneers and tuners looked into different blocks and cranks to see which "350" was the best. I can't remember bores and strokes, but it sounded like they were compaining the 305 block with a 400 crank, the 350 as is, and the 400 block with the 305 crank. Geah, now I need to find that article again, cause I can't remember if the 305/400crank or the 400/305crank came out on top.

-Rick

I'm pretty sure it was 400 block and a smaller creank.

I've always been partial to 327's or 406's when it comes to SBC's.

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-Vinny

87 Fiero GT 202k miles on the 2.8, just waiting to have an excuse for a swap
94 Infiniti Q45t (wife's car: 278 hp, RWD & LSD , leather)

quote I'm pretty sure it was 400 block and a smaller creank. I've always been partial to 327's or 406's when it comes to SBC's.

Yeah, that was it! Going with a 400 block and a short crank alloud them to use really long rods and get 11:1+ compression on cheap gas with out preignition. I wish I could find that dang artical, it had complete details of their whole buildup, and it wound up being a smog'd 350 with some amazing power and good gas milage.

-Rick

I brought that article up on another board, and found out a lot of the impressive results came from the heads, rather than the rods.

GL

quote I brought that article up on another board, and found out a lot of the impressive results came from the heads, rather than the rods.

I think it's a mixture of the two. The long rods them selves don't do anything for power, they just reduced the ammount of preignition. So doing the same head work on an engine with a longer crank would yield higher power, but when you're running 11:1+ compression on that engine, you're not going to be buying 89 octane fuel.

-Rick

Over the weekend I completely forgot about this topic - Sorry!

quote Originally posted by CRNF2: ok well .... first question is.... why would a supercharger not be worth it??? i mean what if i do all the upgrade AND a supercharger??? and as for my second question.... you are all saying this year and that year is better or worse and like i said the engine i have is from a 79.... so is it any good?? i mean this is a free engine!!!.... what i was thinking is just throwing it in as is and wait on another motor!!! but again is the 79 any good???

If you're looking for a budget swap - completely remove any thought of Superchargers or Turbos from your mind. No matter what anyone tells you, they're expensive and not a "simple" upgrade to the Fiero (with obviously the expection of 3800 series motors - because they were designed with the SC in mind). If you want a little extra power at your finger tips - then a wet Nitrous kit would be the "cheapest HP per dollar".

A 1979 305? Hmmm... do you know what it came out of? After some quick research, I find that they were available in things like Trucks & Vans, the Caprice, the El Camino, and F-Bodies. What kind of intake does it have on it, and can you locate any casting numbers. We might be able to find some power details if some further info is available.

In any case, since the 305 is the same installation as the 350 - you certainly could complete the install and drive it with the 305 until you decided you want or can afford something more, then build yourself whatever 350 you desire - then it would be as simple as swapping the engine in the vehicle! I say... go for it

theres no reason NOT to use a 305, unless theres a 350 laying right there also. I've heard bad things about the late 70's 305's having bad cams. Anyways, a 305 is a nice jump from a V6, and if you do come across a nice 350 along the way, makes a jump to that even easier. Anyway you cut it, you'll have a much faster Fiero. Do it & you'll be a happy dude when hitting the gas.

quote Originally posted by ThatRickGuy: I think it's a mixture of the two. The long rods them selves don't do anything for power, they just reduced the ammount of preignition. So doing the same head work on an engine with a longer crank would yield higher power, but when you're running 11:1+ compression on that engine, you're not going to be buying 89 octane fuel. -Rick

It's more the shape of the combustion chambers and the fact that they're aluminum than the work done on them. Long rods increase the dwell around TDC but the effect is not as great as they portray it in that article. They're a small help, not a magic bullet.

GL

Wouldn't the huge bores of a 400 help by not shrouding the valves as much too?

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-Vinny

87 Fiero GT 202k miles on the 2.8, just waiting to have an excuse for a swap
94 Infiniti Q45t (wife's car: 278 hp, RWD & LSD , leather)

Yes, that will help at higher RPM.

GL

Stock 91-92 305s have the best cam.

The setup you guys are talking about was built by waynes. Its a 400 block .30 over with a 327 crank and ford 300 6 cyl. rods. rods are like 6.25 long i think. It was 11.1 comp and run on 87 fuel made over 400 hp with steel heads. you can by there kit for about $1200. I think it comes out to be 352 ci.

A 305 can for the most part use just about any 350 part aside from the pistons. A mild 350 cam is a wild 305 cam. That being said, pick up some vortec heads and get them milled down to 58CC. Put in a good cam and you will run circles around a 3800 motor. I have links of 400+hp 305 builds. On thirdgen.org there are a few guys running 11's with a 305 in a third generation fbody. Think of what that would be in a Fiero!

On the other hand 400 hp 305's could be 500hp 350s.

quote Originally posted by transshop: The setup you guys are talking about was built by waynes. Its a 400 block .30 over with a 327 crank and ford 300 6 cyl. rods. rods are like 6.25 long i think. It was 11.1 comp and run on 87 fuel made over 400 hp with steel heads. you can by there kit for about $1200. I think it comes out to be 352 ci.

The article in Hot Rod said they used AFR 190SHST aluminum heads, and you could build the motor for $2995. Good luck with cast iron.

GL

ok quick question what is EASIER AND CHEAPER 4.9 or 305???

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-Bobadoo Funk-

http://bobadoofunk.tripod.com/funksfunkyfiero/index.html

4.9... you dont need an archie kit. It will bolt right up to the tranny..

James Z

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But you still need a flywheel and you need to fab mounts, the 305 is a bolt in.

I've been checking, because I might be able to get a 3800 cheap. Even if the motor's free, it'll cost a bunch to install it.

I feel like I'll be slapping myself on the forehead and saying "I coulda had a V8".

But that's my personal preference.

GL