I just stumbled into this thread at Honda-Tech.com while searching Yahoo. It mentions not just how good GM Synchromesh is but also the fact (unknown to me) that there are 2 types of GM Synchromesh fluid. One says "Friction Modified". Pictures in the thread show them side by side (added below). This may account for much of the price difference mentioned elsewhere in PFF threads. I checked Pennzoil datasheets and they only list one type which is equivalent to GM part #12345349. No mention of the "Friction Modified" part number. But someone claims that Texaco is probably making these fluids for GM...who knows, maybe GM has 2 suppliers.
The question is: which of these is it that Fiero users have been getting? And their comments.
Also, found this at gmpartsdirect.com: GM PART # 12377916 (note: this is the Friction Modified one) CATEGORY: Vehicle Care PACK QTY: 6 CORE CHARGE: $0.00 GM LIST: $11.34 OUR PRICE: $6.46 DESCRIPTION: FLUID
mine came in the rectangle bottle ...but i don't think it said friction modified on it. I'll have to check.....It was much cheaper than I thought it would be
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08:13 AM
Jdlog Member
Posts: 494 From: Coral Springs, FL Registered: Jun 2003
The Honda folks are convinced that the "friction modified" formula is the one that works best, but this may only apply to their cars. Upon reading more of the thread, I found at least 1 guy who theorized that this FM formula may cause synchronizers to wear down a little faster. Even if it turned out to be true, many posters said they'd rather have the clearly smoother shifting benefit at the expense of a little extra wear. That's how impressed they are.
I am suspect that several Fiero owners got this FM formula not realizing there was a more "basic" one. To the extent that they may remember, it would be interesting to get their impressions.
This said, it appears that GM's recommendation, for Fieros, was the non-FM formula. OTH, I have not found anything saying that the FM formula is NOT adviced for Fieros...but I am getting old and blind .
Beno
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06:27 PM
FieroOilAnalyst Member
Posts: 719 From: Indianapolis, IN US Registered: Feb 2004
I'd like to chime in here with a quick recommendation and offer. If anyone has any of this fluid on hand, I'd like to send you a small oil sample jar, have you fill the jar and send it back to me. I'd like to run lab tests on both fluid types to find the precise difference in the two. Hopefully something more than a viscosity difference. I would be more than happy to pay the lab costs and post my results for PFF members to review. I'm not familiar with this fluid at this point, but I also don't want to buy new quarts of it if a fellow member has some on hand.
In addition--I'd like to offer engine or transmission oil analysis services to any member of PFF. Because those of us that truly enjoy what these little cars have to offer, I will do this at my cost. This means that I will not charge more than the laboratory charges me for the testing + postage, and I will do the analysis of the results myself.
If anyone wants to donate the trans fluid, or if interested in the analysis, feel free to let me know.
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08:45 PM
Jdlog Member
Posts: 494 From: Coral Springs, FL Registered: Jun 2003
I don't have any of this stuff yet. We'll see if someone does.
I do have some motor oil from the last change that I kept to send to a lab (have their bottle somewhere...). PM me as to what I should do to have you take care of it.
Beno
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08:57 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Synchromesh ("round" bottle) - #12345349 This is what I'm running. I've not heard about the Friction Modified. Does anyone will Alldata access know of any TSB's that call for the FM?
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09:37 PM
Weponhead Member
Posts: 1264 From: Keymar MD USA Registered: Nov 2003
Friction modified is for posi differential applications that call for it to keep the clutches from chattering. Not an issue in our manual transmissions. I can't see it helping anything exept creating a lighter car (by the extra amount of cash your not carrying around)
HTH
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02:37 AM
SplineZ Member
Posts: 952 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2002
Just to throw a monkey wrench into things... I have 2 bottles both rectangular; none mention friction modifiers, and both have diff part numbers than posted
James Z
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04:32 AM
Jdlog Member
Posts: 494 From: Coral Springs, FL Registered: Jun 2003
Wow, if those are Canadian dollar prices I think we'll start "importing" more than just medicines from Canada soon.
Well, at least we are getting all the applicable stock item numbers...there may even be a Mexican/Spanish version with its own cat. number, for all we know. Any Enchilada Fiero owners around?
Beno
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11:21 AM
SplineZ Member
Posts: 952 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2002
Funny thing is I pick the stuff up at canadian tire, and the parts guys have no idea what im talking about. I have to talk to the service manager to get it.. There is no cdntire part number, so they had to write 'what they think' the price is on the front to get it pash cash
James Z
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12:04 PM
DustoneGT Member
Posts: 1274 From: The U.S. Superstate Registered: Dec 2002
I've been digging around in google, and looking at fluid additives called "friction modifiers"
They seem to reduce friction in order to reduce heat. Friction reduction would seem to me to be something that would make the synchros less effective, maybe I'm wrong.
Before anyone asks... What I know about the fluid is in my cave, along with the GM TSB numbers that I have. If there are any other TSBs I don't know about them.
I did hear awhile back there was a new number but I don't know if it replaces the old SM fluid or not.
My thought is unless you know for certain that the other fluid is rated for use in the Fiero transmissions, don't use it. You don't change trans oil all that often so cost shouldn't really be a big issue.
Don't buy the stuff thru a dealer unless you have to. Use the AC or Pennzoil part numbers and order it thru a local parts counter. As long as you go to the parts store with a number they can usually get whatever.
------------------ The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the year.
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