quote Originally posted by Archie: I'm up for that, I'll have the car done before He gets done talking about it. Archie

Arch, that's one competition you would definately win. But, given two equal cars I'm sure I could out drive you.

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: , given two equal cars I'm sure I could out drive you.

Well that's not likely to happen, I won't be driving any more 4.9's & you'll be lucky if you ever get to Ride in one of my cars.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Well that's not likely to happen, I won't be driving any more 4.9's & you'll be lucky if you ever get to Ride in one of my cars.

That's ok Arch, I'm sure Mr. Pat will let me roll with him.

ehhh.. i call BS. if that was the case, then peopel could sue GM for putting a 200 MPH speedo in the corvette, but they dont.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Nope, not anymore. The lawyers seem to think I'd get sued by some widow of a customer who thought that because he had a 200 MPH speedo, he should be able to go 200. Archie

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: ehhh.. i call BS. if that was the case, then peopel could sue GM for putting a 200 MPH speedo in the corvette, but they dont.

Call BS all you want, GM's pockets are a little deeper than mine & I think they have their own lawyers on staff.

First off, Tom, I am really sorry to see your thread stepped on by the adolescent banter and sharp shooting.

You comparison tells me I would have been pretty disappointed relatively if I had 4.9 doing mid-15's.

Being a mid-15 2.8, I just wouldn't go through all the work for such a poor return. I undertand fully that there is a big difference between an automatic doing 17's and a mid 15 auto. Still, a change of trannies on the stock engine would have given you very similar results.

It seems to me that your auto tranny is the holdup. I recommend if you aren't going big hp, 300+ that you simply switch to a stick. That will pull you down without engine mods.

But hey, what do I know?

------------------
Arn Brown,

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: ehhh.. i call BS. if that was the case, then peopel could sue GM for putting a 200 MPH speedo in the corvette, but they dont.

You ever tried suing a major corporation? They've got enough lawyers and money to keep it tied up until after your funeral. Suing a small business owner is much easier, and more risky to the small business owner.

So I'm calling on your BS.

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: Hope this doesn't start another never-ending thread. Many of you have asked me how my 4.9 compares to my V-8 Archie SBC over the past couple of years. I've said I like them both, but there really isn't any comparison. Well, for Christmas, my wife gave me an Escort G-Timer - really cool - does 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times, horsepower, and a bunch more. So today I took the G-Timer out for a test run with the two cars out by the baseball stadium in Vierra. Here are the results on the 4.9 and the SBC. Like I thought, the 4.9 compares pretty good with a stock 5.0 Mustang. I made 2 quarter mile runs and 4 additional 0-60 runs with the 4.9. According to the G-Timer, my 0-60 times aren't as good as I thought. I actually thought they might be comparable to the SBC, but there seems to be a pretty good lag (dead spot) between 50 and 60mph - well over a second. My low 0-60 time was 6.30 and High was 6.93 using various amounts of throttle and brake on launch. The two quarter mile runs were 15.30 @ 87.7 and 15.28 at 87.9. The two quarter mile runs had the worst 0-60 times. So I figure if I put all the good times together, it will run around 15.0 sec @ ~90 mph. This is a 4T60E car (2.73), no mods, stock size 15" wheels, regular air pressure, on a nice sunny low wind day in Florida (75 degrees). Now for the "Animal" results. I made only two runs - both the full quarter mile. I left the line hard, but did not dump the clutch on either run, I am running 17" Yokohama A520s, normal air pressure, Getrag 5 spd. This car is powered by a modified ZZ3 345+hp SBC (roller rockers, Sanderson Headers, MSD ignition, & custom Inglese Holley Carb. The two quarter mile times were 12.06 @ 111 and 11.97 @115 mph. 0-60 times for these runs were 5.26 and 5.21 respectively. 0-50 times in the 4.9 were comparable to the 0-60 times in the SBC. Hopefully that answers the comparison mail. I still think everyone needs one of each in their garage. Both are a lot of fun! Rockcrawl is making me a chip for the 4.9. so I'll have to to a comparison to the stock 4.9 chip after I install his custom chip. I'm also going to figure out how to work the horsepower part of the G-Timer so I can compare horsepower before and after the new chip.

Tom,

Interesting post but, besides your input the majority of thread isn't worth the time I took to read it. The HP figures will need the weight of the vehicle. So you will need to take the cars to a truck stop or other scales, get a weight and remember to add in your weight. Please use a full tank of gas, no extra crap in the car, and bring extra gas to the testing location. Try to do at least 5 runs in both directions and keep the tanks topped off. The HP figures given will be lower than a dyno. This is because of wind resistance. In fact if your testing methods are sound a G-Tech device should give a more realistic HP figure than a dyno.

And to fend off the sharp shooters: No one compares crank HP any more because of drive line loss right? I mean who cares if an engine makes 1000 hp and looses half to a messed up tranny? So why compare a static dyno chart to what your car does in the real world? Last time I checked no one has yet driven a car with out wind resistance. Dynos are good but so are accelerometers. You just have to understand the testing methods and the data.

I can't believe that after more than 6 months this thread is still going. Well, just to provide you all with some HONEST and FACTUAL update, in which obviously very few of you are interested, here goes. The 4.9 was actually experienceing some transaxle problems. I believe I mentioned in one of my posts that it seemed to stick a little off the line when I was doing the runs with the G-Timer. Well around February the tranny went belly up - as in the car wouldn't move. I had it rebuilt and added a Transgo shift kit with some additional tweaking by a professional and it ran much better, but still no ZZ3. By the way, the Transgo kit is a GREAT mod for the 4T60E - it eliminated all shudder and really gave firm shifts. I loved the Yellow 88 T-Top 4.9, but I sold it anyway a couple of months ago to Ronnie Fulcher of Georgia Fieros. Good Guy! Why did I sell the 4.9? For no other reason than I'm 61, don't trust anyone else to work on my cars and I needed a car to drive to work someone else has to fix if it breaks. So--I bought a pickup truck (Chevy V-8 naturally) so I now can tow the SBC to Fiero events and have fun. Now I don't like trailer queens either, but my wife can't handle the long drives in the Fiero anymore and this way if I break it having fun at RFTH or wherever we go, I can get it home where I can fix it myself - Ask Phil Rudolph (or is it Randolph - sorry Phil) what a pain that can be. So I can no longer compare the two. I kept the SBC for three reasons 1) It makes the blood leave my head when I step on the gas and, 2) I have at least twice as much $ in it as I did the 4.9 - and that is a lot more than engine $! and 3) I just love the sound!!. Do I recommend the 4.9? Yes. Absolutely. Do I recommend the V-8 Archie? Yes. Emphatically! Which one is best? Go find out for yourselves!!! And have fun doing it!

------------------

Tom Corey
Melbourne, FL
87 Green T-Top GT 5Spd SBC ZZ3 V8

Thanks for the update! One question.

Seat of the pants speaking. How much better did the 4.9 run after all was said and done?

------------------
-Chris - Custom Gun Metal 86 GT 3.4 5spd
3.4 SOLD & 4.9 being installed

"It's too low, too rough, too loud, drinks gas, it's totally impractical, but damn good lookin. In other words, It's almost perfect!"
Build up tread or MODS w/ Pics

quote Originally posted by Black-Azz-GT: Thanks for the update! One question. Seat of the pants speaking. How much better did the 4.9 run after all was said and done?

Tom, I'm also curious to hear you describe the difference in the car after you fixed the trans and installed the shift kit.

quote Originally posted by Black-Azz-GT: Thanks for the update! One question. Seat of the pants speaking. How much better did the 4.9 run after all was said and done?

Unfortunately, Ronnie wanted the car real quick after I finished the tranny and I didn't get a chance to stick the GTimer in for a run. However, I'll take my GTimer to RFTH in September and see if Ronnnie wants to try it out and then report back. My seat of the pants guess, is that it made about.2-.5 sec difference, which would put the car around mid 14's. It also had Rockcrawl's chip in it which was also an improvement, so maybe even low 14's. I'd be really surprised if it hit 13's. You know, the 4.9 with a 4T60E gets out of the hole really well, probably better than the SBC with the 5 speed Getrag, but once off the line the 4.9 doesn't come close to the G's I feel pulling with my SBC. However, keep in mind, my SBC is no ordinary 350 - it cranks out 400+ hp easily hitting 6000rpms. I missed Ed Parks swap meet this year, but plan to attend next year. I'll bring the GTimer with me for whoever wants to try it out. It's the next best thing to drag racing.

Tom I drove your Green One a couple of years ago at Daytona and I will take that over your old 4.9 anyday of the week.