How do I easily identify the 4T60E from the 4T60/440? How do I identify gear ratio? Year?

Mine had T460-E embossed on the bottom of the pan. I don't know if GM did that on all of the trannies or not though.

Well now, that would be just too simple if it were just that? LOL....Any way from above the trans?

the 4T60-E has no kickdown cable and there is no governor under the speed sensor. the extension housing (where the speed sensor is) unbolts to expose the final drive; the 440T4/4T60 does NOT have a removable extension housing. Furthermore, some of the very early 4T60-E's (1991-93?) do not have a trans fluid temp sensor or PWM TCC solenoid which means they will not work with the later computers. The easiest way to tell year is to locate the white tag that is on the back of the trans or on the side pan. there should be a small number followed by two large letters. the number is the year (example): 6AF would be a 1996 transmission. AF tells you what gear ratio and body of car it came from, but you will need to call a trans shop to get that info.

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[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 04-28-2004).]

Darth Fiero's info is good. I add this:
The last year for the vacuum modulated 4T60 is '97, after that all are "E's". If it is a '98 or later I can break down the code on the S/N tag on the barrel of the transmission. As above the first number set gives the year, the next three letters give the "broadcast code" for gear ratio, chain ratio, final drive ratio, and platform. I do not know if this is true for the older units.
If you post the number here in a day or two I will post an answer here.

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'88 Fiero Formula "Interceptor"
'90 Trofeo "Interceptor XB"
'90 Olds Cutlass Cruiser S (Wife's)

"Darth : "Locate the white tag that is on the back of the trans or on the side pan. there should be a small number followed by two large letters. the number is the year (example): 6AF would be a 1996 transmission. AF tells you what gear ratio and body of car it came from, but you will need to call a trans shop to get that info."

"Mad Max : "The last year for the vacuum modulated 4T60 is '97, after that all are "E's". If it is a '98 or later I can break down the code on the S/N tag on the barrel of the transmission. As above the first number set gives the year, the next three letters give the "broadcast code" for gear ratio, chain ratio, final drive ratio, and platform. I do not know if this is true for the older units.
If you post the number here in a day or two I will post an answer here."

Can you provide this info for manual transmissions as well? This is concerning a 5-speed in an '89 Cav Z-24
(one of the brackets has HD 5-spd stamped into it)

Any one with an answer or speculation, feel free to PM me so as not to hi-jack the thread.

Sorry gt88norm, I don't have a brake down for manual transmissions. I do have the brake down for any GM '98 and later auto transmissions (can't remember at this time but it may go back to '95). The nomanclature for GM auto transmissions changed in the early 90's.
The trans in your Z24 may be the same as the V6 Fieros.

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'88 Fiero Formula "Interceptor"
'90 Trofeo "Interceptor XB"
'90 Olds Cutlass Cruiser S (Wife's)

Darth,

Do you have a pic that you could show the fluid temp switch and/or the TCC? It would help me out tremendously.

quote Originally posted by Mad Max Motorsports: The last year for the vacuum modulated 4T60 is '97, after that all are "E's".

The last year for the 4T60 (non electronic) was 1992. ALL 4T60-E's were vacuum modulated. The 4T60-E was manufactured between 1991 and 1998. The 4T65-E was manufactured 1997-present.

Furthermore, most 1991-93 4T60-E's do not have a TFT (trans fluid temp) sensor nor do they have a TCC PWM apply solenoid. According to my info, even some 91-93 4T60-E's that were in caddy's did have the TCC PWM apply solenoid.

There is no easy way (externally) of telling if your 4T60-E has the TFT and PWM lockup stuff. The only way to know for sure is to determine year and what vehicle it came from by deciphering the ID tag.

The 1992 4T60E used in the Bonneville SSEi does indeed have the PWM TCC apply solenoid. No fluid temp sensor though. I have the car, have the factory shop manuals, and have done EXTENSIVE trouble shooting of the overdrive and TCC systems.

Whoops, brain fart. The 1992 4T60E in the Bonneville SSEi has both the PWM TCC AND the fluid temp switch. The fluid temp switch is only used for Traction Control equipped vehicles.

True, but the 1992 4T60-E that came in the Lumina Z34, Grand Prix GTP, and Culass Supreme mated to the 3.4 DOHC engine did NOT have either a PWM TCC solenoid nor a TFT sensor. So again, when it doubt, decipher the ID tag on the trans.

I am running a 1998 4t60e from a Chevy Venture Van. Works great, but I am keeping my eyes open for a 96 HD tranny, just in case this one doesnt like the turbo setup

so....with all of these 4T60-E's laying around, can any one of them be used with the caddy motor? If I was to pick up say, a 4T60-E out of a bonneville, can I mate this to the Caddy 4.9 and run the Caddy ECM? If I get a trans with traction control and the ECM (if this is where the control is...or is it not?) does not support it, will I have problems? Will the exchange books at the salvage yard match this combination appropriately?

quote According to my info, even some 91-93 4T60-E's that were in caddy's did have the TCC PWM apply solenoid.

That is correct, the Caddys have the PWM solenoid. They only have the TFT sensor if the car had optional traction control.

quote so....with all of these 4T60-E's laying around, can any one of them be used with the caddy motor?

You'd need to be sure it has the VCC PWM circuit. I'd bet I can make one work without it, but I wouldn't suggest it to you. You'll also need to have the chip matched to the gear ratio and VSS reluctor tooth count.

According to my info, the VCC PWM circuit is not that much different than the later TCC PWM circuits. In fact, I suggest you throw away the caddy VCC torque converter. According to my tranny guy, these things are junk, in addition to being heavy and always allowing for slip.

GM came out with the VCC lockup in an attempt to satisfy the "old person" customer base. Basically, the VCC still has a clutch in there like a TCC, only when it locks up, the clutch does not tie the input shaft of the trans directly to the converter case. Instead, there is a viscous clutch assembly in there that will allow the converter to slip slightly when the VCC is applied. This was supposed to make the powertrain "feel" smoother to the customer. The problem is, GM had issues with the viscous clutch assemblies and they added extra weight to the torque converter. Using one of these converters will cost you performance, and perhaps a miniscule amount of gas mileage.

You can put a regualar torque converter on the VCC 4T60-E tranny. However, (rockcrawl may know more about this pertaining to the operation of the caddy PCM) depending on PCM control of the PWM solenoid, you may want to use a 96-97 torque converter with the carbon fiber TCC clutch material for enhanced durability and lockup feel.

In any event, if you don't have a caddy engine and PCM you are using for your swap, I would suggest staying away from the caddy 4T60-E because I have heard some people complain about the way the shifts feel to soft. After all, what do you expect? It was designed for a caddy.

Darth,

Well, since I am havig a problem finding a motor/trans combination, this may just help solve two problems at once...

So....for the 4.9 swap.....What cars should I try to find my trans from that will provide a better shift?

Cplensdorf, Don't know realy know of any Fiero events in the area. Mainly stick to Auto-X and Milan. If there was some thing local I would go if there were no conflicts.

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'88 Fiero Formula "Interceptor"
'90 Trofeo "Interceptor XB"
'90 Olds Cutlass Cruiser S (Wife's)

quote Originally posted by Cplensdorf: Darth, Well, since I am havig a problem finding a motor/trans combination, this may just help solve two problems at once... So....for the 4.9 swap.....What cars should I try to find my trans from that will provide a better shift?

Anything but a caddy trans.

Now if you are looking for specific gear ratios, here is what you can expect to find:

W-body cars with 3.1 or 3100 engines usually came with 3.33 final drive
H-body cars with the 3800 N/A engines usually came with either 3.06 or 2.84 final drive
3800 SC equipped cars usually came equipped with 2.97 or 3.06 gearing

Of course, if you want to improve the shift of your tranny is it relatively easy, at least concerning the 1-2, and 2-3 shift. Both of these shift accumulators are accessible by dropping the tranny pan. A few companies make shift kits for these trannys, but I recommend the trans-go SK4T60E Jr. Shift kit that includes hardened accumulator piston pins and tougher seals. While this may not firm up the shift, it will fix potential problems that the 4T60-E had with these accumulators. And while you are in there, you can add about 1/4" of washers to the underside of the accumulator springs which will firm up the shifts.

Something else you can do is buy an adjustible vacuum modulator. Pick one up for a 90 Bonneville with the 3800 and 440-T4/4T60 trans. Most auto parts stores will not sell you an adjustible modulator for the 4T60-E, but most tranny shops will. Only warning I have here concerning the adjustible modulator is to not turn the pressure up too far. You know you have turned it up to far when the tranny has a growl or whining sound at idle.