Ok, my 2 cents. 1. Subject-put as much specific info as possible there. That's been pretty well covered.
2. Year, Engine, tranny, option information should be the 1st things listed in the body of the query, especially in the case of ,(but not confined to) "Where is the...?-What wire goes to....?-etc etc". No one can keep up with who owns which Fiero or which engine they have, especially with all the swaps. State your year and engine size, transmission type etc first, please. Not all symptoms fit all vehicles.
3. Search function-I don't have much trouble with the search function. If anyone remembers the old search program, you know the current one is a big improvement. There is a way to search by username also. Just type in the username, select 'entire post', section you want to search in,and all the threads containing posts, including the initial post -if applicable-of that particular member will show up. If you are looking for something you think is more than 90 days old, choose 'archive TD&Q'.
4. Separate sections-Altho the idea may have some merit, I see 2 problems with it. The first is the extra load on Cliff. Increased bandwidth and technical problems. Increased time he would have to spend. As the owner/webmaster/moderator, he has to scan thru each of the 6 sections as it is looking for any problems, such as the infamous "rebuilding database" error we all saw in both the mall and tech, not to mentionany in-appropriate postings. The 2nd problem I see, is the potential for a loss of expertise in some of the newly created sections. There are a few people, like Jazzman, The Ogre, GTDude, buddycraigg with 2 g's, Avengador,Jelly, Jake, just to name a few, , who contribute in this section every day. More sections would mean more work for them. Other people, who are primarily interested in a new project, may tend to stay only in the section they are currently active in-meaning they may not be available to help out in a thread in one of the other sections. For those who contribute answers/solutions daily, I imagine it is a lot easier to scan down 1or 2 pages at the most, looking for new problems, than it would be to scan 2 to 4 separate sections.
5. I'm all for a "read only" tech write up section tho. Perhaps just an index section with URLs listed, rather than entire list of subject lines-like The Ogre has in the Cave.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-14-2004).]
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02:55 AM
donk316 Member
Posts: 1952 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
Okay how about this idea. When you create a thread you click on a catagory. The thead is posted and would appear as is currently does, meaning all catagories are together. If a person would like to read only about one subject the he could click on a button at the top of the Technical page for example interiors and only the theads about interiors would be listed. This way both methods are possible. What do you think?
------------------ Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 INTERCOOLED SUPERCHARGED White 88 GT Stock Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution. History of Skitimes Car
Originally posted by stuartlowery: One option I would love to see here is Modified Threads Since Last Visit. Also I would like to know how to get the cookie to STAY PUT! I have to log in every visit.
The forum already does that... If you aren't seeing the different icons on the left, you have some kind of browser issue. Make sure that if you are using a cookie manager of any kind, including IE 6 built in one suvh as it is, that it is configured to allow saving PFF cookies. IE6 shouldn't be higher than Med High in privacy prefs or you need to put PFF in the trusted zone...
Log in... Similar sort of problem. Your first post each sesion is suposed to make you log in. In IE 6 you need the password saver enabled or you'll have to type it in. IE will remember the the user name password combo's separately from the rest of the autocomplete feature. With password save active I type the first letter of my name, down arrow once then enter. Then just tab to the reply box. From that point on all replys drop right to the big text box.
All...
What MJ said above is very important. I've griped about that more than once. Now I just don't bother and if the forum is really busy, people that leave you to guess what engine etc or even what their topic is suposed to be just get ignored. I don't have time to play 20 questions. I've left questions go a day or more until people got around to adding usefull data.
I remember the old search very well. It blew chunks. A few people trying to use it at one time could bring the entire forum to its knees. The new one works allot like Google etc and accepts certain boolean functions. Those of you that use the archives allot... I strongly recomend Cliff's PFF CD. It has a much more flexible search.
More forums will just mean allot more people asking the same question in several places. It will make finding the right answer allot harder in the long run because: People will get tired of seeing the same question and ignore it. To some extent this already happens. People won't have time to scan 4 more sections. The odds of one of the more experienced members seeing your topic will actually drop.
As I noted above... Many car questions are really pretty generic. Stuff that applies to one engine nearly always applies to many. GM DIS 2 for example works the same on all engines that use it no matter how it is layed out or how many cylinders. The trouble shooting of that system is the same for all version of it. So if your V6 has it, trouble shooting info for the DIS 2.5l will still help you.
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08:00 PM
donk316 Member
Posts: 1952 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
More forums will just mean allot more people asking the same question in several places. It will make finding the right answer allot harder in the long run because: People will get tired of seeing the same question and ignore it. To some extent this already happens. People won't have time to scan 4 more sections. The odds of one of the more experienced members seeing your topic will actually drop.
Look, I spent 4 years building 70-73 Camaros and every day of those years was spent gathering onfo and asking questions on www.nastyz28.com ( 12,000 members) which has an excellent forum maybe too many options. Every question gets answered, except for " how much horsepower will a 50 shot of naws get me" Cmon, dont be afraid of change, embrace it.
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08:41 PM
BtotheB Member
Posts: 2581 From: Peterborough, Ontario Registered: Dec 2001
I like the way things are right now personally... the only thing I'd like to see done (other than improving the search!) is maybe separating TD&Q into Technical Discussions and a separate Questions area. I suppose the idea is that people will be more likely to read the questions if they're all lumped into one area, but to tell the truth I kinda just skim through TD&Q to look for the build up threads and the discussions. If I see an easy question or something I've done before I'll try and answer, but otherwise I'm pretty much useless answering questions. Probably 90% of the people reading TD&Q aren't interested in answering questions, or just don't know. But whatever, just an idea.
Brad
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09:04 PM
Old Lar Member
Posts: 13797 From: Palm Bay, Florida Registered: Nov 1999
Multiple sections for every conceivable Fiero option would be a PITA. The search function would work wonderfully IF the title had some meaningful question. "Help, HELP!!!, Quick Question!!!, Starting problem" leaves much to your imagination as to what a subject is and is meaningless for searching a topic.
For those who want more from the forum or any forum, you are free to create your own and set it up anyway you want. Cliff set this up with his own nickle..
Originally posted by donk316: Cmon, dont be afraid of change, embrace it.
Nope... Been on forums like that. Not wasting my time like that again. If this forum went like that I would leave. I've seen plenty of car and computer forums that simply have way too bloody many divisions and the same questions spread thru them again and again. It is just as bad in the antispyware forums. Way too many people don't even try to find an existing answer before posting a new thread.
If you dig thru just this one section and its archive you will see many repeats of the same question asked by people that couldn't bother to even try the search system first. I started writing my cave mainly because I got tired of typing the same damn thing 50 times and that was several years ago. Now I just say go read ______ article in my cave. If they still have a question after that then I try to clear it up.
This isn't about being afraid of change. I've seen other systems a plenty. It is hard enough to keep up with the three main sections we have without adding a ton of redundant bs.
Let's take one specific example.... Overheating Fiero. Over heating always comes down to a very short list of things that many people for some reason only god knows will not check. With a couple exceptions, the same short list applies to every car on the planet. You tell them to look at specific items and they simply can't be bothered to do it. It gets old telling people the same thing again and again. spreading the thing thru more forums makes it even worse.
please dont re-flame me. PFF is not taylored for the engine swapper - that's why I started www.fasterfiero.com individual swap sections, with sticky threads. The search function is there, but I think it needs some work. There is still no substitute for PFF! -john
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09:50 AM
PFF
System Bot
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Does anyone remember the old GM Forums? That site had WAY too much division. There were sections for each chassis, each engine and a section for transmissions. So if I had an obscure question about the HM282, in order to get the most coverage and the greatest likelihood of getting an answer, I'd have the post the same question in many locations: in the transmission section, which almost no one read, in each chassis section (because N, L, W & P chassis all used the HM282), and in the 60 degree 6 engine sections because people sometimes talked about transmissions there. Each forum was very specific, but getting good coverage on some questions was a real PITA.
For my uses, PFF is ok the way it is. I only read about 5% of the posts anyway, as most are about things that have been beaten to death already. If people used the archives, the current format would be extremely easy to use. A very informative subject line greatly increases the likelihood that I'll read a post. I just ignore subject lines like "Hey check this out".
If, however people absolutely must divide the forum, I suggest the minimum division necessary: a body/exterior forum, an interior forum, and a mechanical/electrical forum.
The forum descriptions should clearly delineate which types of questions go in which forums. For instance questions about instruments or interior lighting or HVAC should go in the mechanical/electrical forum, while questions about wiring for a killer stereo should go in the interior forum.
The GFC forum should stay on as a way to reach everyone with a very general question or topic.
However, I also think that subdividing the forum will reduce the sense of community that we have here. I know what everyone is doing, even those who are heavily modifying body or interior with no regard to performance. I'd almost never visit interior or body forums unless I had a specific question. However, as it is now, I find it interesting to at least see what people with different interests are working on.
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
However, I also think that subdividing the forum will reduce the sense of community that we have here. I know what everyone is doing, even those who are heavily modifying body or interior with no regard to performance
I certainly agree with that statement. I'm one of those who will probably never heavily modify in any way, looks or performance, for personal rerasons. BUT, I really do enjoy reading what others do. When I read about a member who has done a really outstanding job in any area, I live that experience thru his words/pics. Maybe that makes me a closet wannabe, but at my age & health, it's the best I can do. We are a family here, and anything that divides that family can't be good imo.
I joined Automotive Forums a couple of years ago. Nearly 100 main sections, with several subdivided sections for each manufactorer. Just too danged big!!
Searches-I'll be the 1st to admit I don't know much about Fiero's 1st hand, but I have a great memory. If it's been posted since I've been here, I probably remember it. I may not remember when or who, but I know it's there and have the patience to find it. I've seen people say they searched and can't find any results for their query. I'll do a search & 'there it is'. I'm here every night, and almost all weekends. If someone can't find something-PM me. I'll be glad to help find any article(s) that will help, and pm or post the url.
I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, but we do have to remember Cliff's time & resources are finite and limited. If I remember correctly, he posted once that this site is costing him about $5K/month!!!! That's a big expenditure for one person, and I doubt voluntary contributions and proceeds from the single ad banner even begin to offset it much. Adding more sections will only increase his expenditure and time spent debugging/moderating.
Now, a button at the top of the page, like The Ogre's Cave, which is really just a link, wouldn't add that much to cost/time. Like we have for Fiero vendors, perhap we could have a read only 'links' button to point the way to all the tech articles that people like Jazzman, buddycraigg, and many other's have written. If someone has a question or comment, they can contact the originator and the article be ammended by the originator. OR-- As far as I'm concerned, the 'trashcan' section can ride the thunder, and a read only tech write up section be put in it's place. If a thread is so bad it has to be trashed, then it may as well be 'poofed' completely, and that section be made better use of under a new heading.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-15-2004).]
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11:01 AM
May 16th, 2004
donk316 Member
Posts: 1952 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
Some good stuff was said above that I'll support below (plus one or two I may have missed after reading it all ): - Dividing into more forums will detract from its appeal, community spirit and usefulness. - An enhanced search function would do TONS more for all of us. It could also largely address the issue mentioned initially. Still, we are sooooo fortunate to have this great a forum already! - It is true that threads cycle a bit too quickly...but that's a good encouragement for people to stay in touch. - We could remind members that more specific topic titles and car specs can help others to help the poster much faster...though creative headlines need not be discouraged. - It would be nice if we could encourage people to post a SOLUTION, when found. This would be both, considerate and very useful, when added at the end of a thread where we asked for tech help.
Beno
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02:48 AM
jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6231 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
My .02 cents is that I'm happy with the way it is.
I look at most of the posts, it's easy to find them, and sometimes you find something interesting in a topic that doesn't look appealing.
I'm on another forum which has a seperate section for what ever you want, I only look in 3 catagories, General discussion, Off Topic, and the catogory for my local region.
It's just too much back and forth, and opening new sections to bother looking. heck knows what kinda good info I'm missing on there.
Sure, the current setup is fine for the addicts that are here everyday....
But for those of us who go a couple of days at a time without their "fix", it's impossible to keep track of the new posts. If I go look at technical right now, the 4 pages of current topics go to yesterday. And not even the whole day. How is someone supposed to find and keep current on their topics of interest if the topic doesn't stay on top long enough to be seen? Come here every single day, 365 days a year?
I think at least one more section is necessary so the average member doesn't miss the good stuff that they're interested in.
This conversation is like telling someone else how they should organize their house. One soution will definitely not work for everyone. But it is certainly true that this forum suffers from the same thing as the Internet: Information overload. Too much info is missed for those that can't be here everyday. And many will find that discouraging.
One suggestion I have made in the past that I didn't see listed above is the ability to subscribe to a thread. Either when you reply to it or just selecting a thread and start receiving emails whenever someone replies. How many times have you seen a thread and replied...then lost touch with the conversation. I have a bunch of shortcuts on my desktop of threads I am trying to keep up with. It's too difficult.
Steve
------------------ 1988 Formula 3.4L 1/4 mile ET: 15.514 86.27 MPH
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