I bought a set of these headers last fall from Dennis Lagrua. I put them on with no problems. I drove the car for about a week after i installed them and then put the car in for the winter. Well about a month ago i got my car out and started driving it again. I noticed an exhaust leak starting. I soon discovered that the header cracked right along the weld. Lucky it was the trunk side. So i took the header out and looked at it and called up Dennis to see what he could do for me. Well he doesnt supply the headers anymore so i decided to just have the header welded up. Put it back on and back to normal. Now i noticed another leak, two weeks after i had the other one fixed i noticed that the other one is now cracked. I am now trying to get a hold of KFG and get my money back or get them replaced. I am really not happy with the product at all so i would rather get my money and buy a set of Sprints. Well if nothing can be done i will have to get it repaired. I will keep everyone updated, and if you know of anyone else with this problem let me know. Also here are some pictures of where they cracked.

sorry to hear that, was considdering them myself...

hans

That’s too bad, hope it works out for you.
I like the way they look and hope to one day get a set. Well that and a turbo.
Personally the way the weld split I would say that it was not welded hot enough.
Good luck hope it works out for you.

I've had my Sprints for 9 years, No cracks and no problems. Use on my 2.8L for 8 years and on my 3.4L still.

I too just found a crack in mine, and had it welded. Keeping fingers crossed. I would like to get rid of the exhaust leaks and keep them gone.

Matt

hi...............other then the quality of work? or materials?, a hot or lean engine, aka glowing manifolds will cuase the exhuast to crack.......................................

headers are under alot of heat & stress - dont lets this one example make you think KFG headers suck. I consistancies in the y-pipe & an exhaust system bouncing on springs makes for tough work for any set of headers.

fiero go fast, where did yours crack at? and did you call to see if anything can be done about it. i called and tried to get a hold of john ferris but he is out of town for 2 weeks. i think im just gonna have the other one welded up too. im really not happy with having to take this one (the hard one) off. my engine runs really cool and never any signs of them getting red. I just wish i never had to do this cause as you all know changing these are a pain.

Hard on the headers? Boo Hoo! I would be ripped if I spent $500 on headers made specifically for my engine and then they cracked in multiple places because of bad welds or poor design. If stock manifolds could hold up to lean conditions and heavy exhaust pulling on it, then any well made header should. I think its the welder in this case. Maybe not hot enough, or maybe no flux? I am no welder, but you can see the problem is clearly in the welds. I would ask for a refund, or flat out free replacement. Its a pain in the ass to do the headers and I know I wouldn't want to do mine again.

I bet they didn't heat treat the pipe before they welded it.
Look at where its cracking, the welds were probably cooled off with air and not allowed to cool off slowly.
The pipes need to be heated evenly then welded again. Grind out all the welds don't weld over top what you got or you will be doing it again.
Thats tough like I said I was looking at these for a future turbo project.

Out of curiousity, is your exhaust stock, and are there any missing springs? As others have mentioned, I was considering these for my 3.4 turbo... Hmm..

Im about to lose it guys! I cant really get a hold of anyone at KFG because the person i talked to on the phone said that the sales people are out of town for 2 weeks. No springs are missing either, and even if they were these things should last forever. There is absolutely nothing that is my fault. Im using the stock exhaust also and i havent done any crazy driving or drag racing with these. The stock manifolds held up perfectly and i was just looking for a step up in performance and quality. I wish i still had the stock set but i got rid of them. Now im stuck out of a vehicle until i can talk to someone. and its a pain in the butt trying to get a hold of people. im just lucky, very lucky that i know what i am doing. to take these off and get everything fixed would cost me a fortune!! its really been a blast having to do these myself. sorry if i sound like im complaining a little but you guys know how it is.

Find a good welding shop. The one that made those might have even used the wrong welding rod material and that is why the welds cracked. You need to know what was used to make them so the welder can use the right stuff to weld them.

Could this be at least partially a design problem?

The manifold (sorry, these aren't headers) tubing gets a lot hotter than the flange plate. It also heats up a lot faster and cools down a lot faster.

Because of this it's expanding and contracting at a different rate than the flange it's attached to. This puts stress on the tubing and it cracked at the welds. It's possible that this wouldn't be a problem if all the flanges were seperate like the stock manifold.

It will be interesting to hear KFG's analysis of the problem once they get back in town.

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Doug Chase
Chase Race
Custom roll cage and exhaust fabrication

solution: take the manifolds to a machine shop or local band saw for metal and cut a 1/8" line through the flanges. this is what turbo and high-performance header builder do to keep your problem from happening. it works, that's all i have to say.

let me know if you plan on selling them, cracked or not, ill consider them, ofcourse id make them very ugly with some MASSIVE welds on them.

matthew

Hello Fieroman87,

Could you please be more specific on where the 1/8” cuts are made through the flanges?

Thanks for your time.

Reno

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'86 GT - "The Black Bomb" It'll sneek up on you.

Glad I got the sprints instead of those. I called KFG about those before I made my decission.

Good luck man. I feel for you. That job (install) sucks. I know.

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-Chris

Custom Gun Metal 86 GT
Look here for more pics - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/040573.html

***95 Camaro 3.4 swap, Ported and polished heads and intakes, Ported plenium, 57mm Throttle body, Sprint Headers, CRX CAI, Custom Cam, AFP Regulator, steel vacuum lines, steel braided EGR tube, new Wire Harness, New Exhaust, No Cat, Flowmaster, polished poly dog bone. Isuzu 5 speed, Short through shifter
***Intrax 2" drop springs, Full Polly Suspension, Sencetrack Struts and Shocks, Grand AM brake upgrade, steel braided brake lines, 17" Gun Metal Wheels, Khumo Tires
***Racing Seats, SunPro tach w/ shift light, White face guages, carbon fiber Steering wheel, Carbon Fiber dash accents and custom sphere shift knob,

quote Originally posted by anthony_86gt: fiero go fast, where did yours crack at? and did you call to see if anything can be done about it. i called and tried to get a hold of john ferris but he is out of town for 2 weeks. i think im just gonna have the other one welded up too. im really not happy with having to take this one (the hard one) off. my engine runs really cool and never any signs of them getting red. I just wish i never had to do this cause as you all know changing these are a pain.

Well so far mine just cracked on... well where the your picture indicates. Although it was as long as yours. I got it welded and it's holding up fine at the moment.

Only time will tell.
Matt

edit: also, I bought them from someone and not from KFG, so calling them probably wouldn't help me at all.

[This message has been edited by fiero go fast (edited 05-26-2004).]

Well everyone i took it to a welder that i know. after trying to call dennis a million times and never getting a hold of him i decided to just get it fixed on my own. Dennis really didnt want to have anything to do with helping me. I could never get a hold of him and if i did he would say "i will call you right back." guess what he never did. i also left numerous messages and he would never call back. its really a pain trying get a hold of someone when something like this happens. I dont reccomend getting anything from dennis. i managed to get a hold of KFG through email and the guy told me that i had to deal with dennis and then dennis could deal with them. well i just hope that they hold up from here on out. i dont reccomend dennis lagrua or these headers.

Ouch! That has a LOT to say about a supplier. I bet FS would replace them without question. They know service. I have FOCOA which I think are by far the best that has been out there. Too bad they don't make them anymore. I beat my car to hell and that engine has rocked like hell and after 4 years they are still perfect (knock on wood)

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

Wow!

And I was considering buying a pair of those.

Sorry you both had to deal with this. Thanks for sharing with us.
Many of us are watching this thread for a resolution.

EDIT - Because I don't really have anything at stake in this discussion, and didn't want to come off as sounding like I was "piling on".
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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.
Read Nealz Nuze!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-28-2004).]

ouch! and those welds look so pretty.
who says the stock ones hold up? my two fieros had three cracked manifolds.
those splits look like what the turbo grand nationals always do except that they split next to a weld. then when you weld them, they split next to that weld.
i would try to cut the manifold flange. make two clean slices in each. one in between each port. this lets the flange move around with the tubes. graphite gaskets? hope so.

quote Originally posted by Doug Chase: Could this be at least partially a design problem? The manifold (sorry, these aren't headers) tubing gets a lot hotter than the flange plate. It also heats up a lot faster and cools down a lot faster. Because of this it's expanding and contracting at a different rate than the flange it's attached to. This puts stress on the tubing and it cracked at the welds. It's possible that this wouldn't be a problem if all the flanges were seperate like the stock manifold. It will be interesting to hear KFG's analysis of the problem once they get back in town.

Having done a little SIMPLE research, prior to KFG even offering these headers I have to concur w/ Doug, separate flanges will allow more flexibility to allow flex between the disparate materials/gauges involved, as they do heat AND expand at different rates, these are a relatively new product for KFG, I hope that this is only a small growing pain. Don't despair until all the cards have played out,
the person on the phone may not have been in a position to offer any meaningful solution, holding down the fort and answering the phones while the boss is away doesn't require a metallurgist.

Reno,

the cuts should be made inbetween the exhaust ports on the flanges so that there is a gap between 1, 3, and 5 and 2, 4, and 6

O I O I O and O I O I O like that ( I = a cut in the flange)

i hope this explains

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- Why you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy looking, NERF HERDER!!!
- Who's scruffy lookin'?

Arty: a.k.a. FestYboy or Fieroman87
'87 GT 5 spd.
'88 Festiva 5 spd.
Yahoo messanger: AMAbonus
AIM: FestYboy88L

Thank you Fieroman87,

Now I understand, thanks.

Reno

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'86 GT - "The Black Bomb" It'll sneek up on you.

quote Originally posted by gt88norm: Don't despair until all the cards have played out, the person on the phone may not have been in a position to offer any meaningful solution, holding down the fort and answering the phones while the boss is away doesn't require a metallurgist.

Good advice, Norm.

I would give KFG the benefit of the doubt until you can talk to somebody that can make a difference.

Doug

As someone who was concidered these headers also, I will never buy from them...unless something still comes from this like at least a decent response...I have asked a few questions from KFG about their turbo kit and gotten a response very quickly...but this doesnt reflect on getting a response AFTER buying from them...which to me is more importent..
Thanks for sharing your experiance...

P.S. How can this be anything BUT a design flaw...its not jsut a cracked manifold...its cracked at multiple places! thats just unacceptable...

Wow. It cracked right along the weld. I was always told that once something is welded, that it should never break along the weld. A properly done weld is supposed to be stronger than the rest of the material. That shows that the welds were not done right....

i had ordered a set from john ferris as well and he never came through as i really wanted a set for my new motor .... i am glad i didnt , so now im gonna get a set of sprints from the fiero store

I've learned that other than cast iron, headers crack anywhere and everywhere. I have the imfamous ATR headers on my Regal (not cheap believe me). They cracked (after a long, long time though). There are various things you can do to help but headers crack. They crack with cracks. They crack on solid areas, they crack on welds. They crack headers on cars sitting next to them.

Getting them surfaced to be flat and then rewelded while bolted to a solid (1" thick) and flat (really flat) piece of steel and then allowed to slowly cool really prolongs the repairs. The correct wire has to be used for the header material too.

Also, they have to be retorqued after installation without having any pressure on them (twisting from installation). Any stress they are under after installation goes right to the weak spots and they crack there. Cracks.

After that.......

Did water pour onto those headers when they were hot??? Headers WILL crack if you you did. I cracked a pair of headers before... One time I sprayed the engine compartment at the car wash. After I finished I started the car and there was a clicking noise.... and noticed cracks around the welded areas.

Thanks for everyone being concerned. I purchased a set of Sprints because I am still not able to talk to Dennis or anyone from KFG. I am going to file a small claim to hopefully get some of my money back. The Sprints are great by the way! Look fantastic and I really had a good talk with the Fiero Store about the warranty and what would happen if something was to go wrong. Does anyone else have any experinces with Dennis because i am always unable to get a hold of him and he wont return my calls. I dont think he wants to help me at all. Im glad so many people are getting to read this becuase i would never like to hear about someone going through the same thing i did.

anthony let me know how it goes with the sprints i just need a lil more cash before i can get them

quote Originally posted by timmer: anthony let me know how it goes with the sprints i just need a lil more cash before i can get them

Timmer so far so good with the sprints. Ive had them on for about 300 miles worth of driving and they are what i would expect from an aftermarket headers. When i installed them they fit like a glove.

Dennis posted in another thread I believe...and recently too..saying that it wasnt his fault, but KFGs.....somewhere in this thread is a link the that thread i think, or maybe not :P

quote Originally posted by InDeX420: Dennis posted in another thread I believe...and recently too..saying that it wasnt his fault, but KFGs.....somewhere in this thread is a link the that thread i think, or maybe not :P

Part of being a retailer is taking care of stuff like this. If I buy a Fuji digital camera from Target and later it breaks, then I deal with Target, not Fuji. Once it's out of warranty then I'm on my own, broken or not.

Is there a stated warranty period on the KFG headers?

Doug

just reading this now.... how was this resolved?? has anyone had experience with WCF headers? they look similar to the cracked ones from KFG.

I would be curious to see what the condition of your tranny mounts would be.

Just because things crack doesn't necessarily mean workmanship. We just had an 88 need a new Y-pipe because the tranny mount let go big time and twisted the Y-pipe from the bottom.

Bad tranny mounts along with bad rubber dog bones and everything is going to be dancing in that engine bay! Make sure your mounts are good otherwise you'll be going through headers no matter who makes them!

Anthony
West Coast Fiero