Like the subject line says, I am looking for the best way to get the air out of an 88 4 cyl's cooling system. Does the Fiero Factory's method work best http://www.thefierofactory.com/qaburp.htm, or does Ogre's work best http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/coolfill.htm? I want the quickest and easiest way to do it, and I only need to burp the system, I don't want to refill the whole thing. Thanks in advance,
-Will

When I had to refill my V6's cooling system, I refilled it from the thermostat housing on the engine with the rear end up on jack stands. I never had to do anything special to get the air out of the system.

With the radiator cap off I filled the system from the rear until the radiator was full. I put that cap on and continued to pour in coolant until it was up to the thermostat housing.

Ed

Thanks for the reply ed, + for you.. I guess the real question I'm asking, is if you can do it on a level surface like the Fiero Factory says, or is it better with the jackstands in the back?

[This message has been edited by 88red4cyl (edited 08-29-2004).]

For a quick burp....

First make sure the radiator is full and you have the right cap installed.
Then open the rear cap and pull the thermostat.

Top off the system. and put the rear cap on.

Start the car and let it run a few seconds.

Shut if off and check the rear cap.

keep topping off the system until it stops taking more coolant.

Is shouldn't take more than 2-3 tries unless you have a leak someplace.

Some people insist you need to jack the car or point it nose down a grade... I've never seen the point. Unless there is something blocking the pipes, they should spit out any air as soon as you start the car. I've never bothered with jacking on flat ground. If your work area is sloped more than a couple degrees then nose down is what you want.

You don't need to worry about air in the radiator very much. That will work out over a couple heat cycles as long as:
The radiator cap isn't leaking air.
The overflow tank hose is sealed tight.
The overflow tank isn't sucked dry from being too low.

Air in the back is the problem. That won't work out by itself.

The only posible solution I can think of would be to use an expansion tank that has a standard radiator cap and overlow fitting with an overflow tank in back. The problem is that there isn't a hell of alot of space to install it. Even if you move the battery I'm not sure if there is enough room.

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The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the year.

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

The following pic shoes the apparatus I use. I welded a piece of 1"pipe to an old radiator cap that I bored a 1" hole in. I use a piece of closed cell foam as a gasket.

On my '84 I was always able to:

1) Remove both radiator cap and engine fill cap.
2) Fill the system until the radiator overlowed.
3) Cap the radiator
4) Start the engine and let it warm up and then
5) Top off the system back on the fill cap on the engine and cap it

On my '88GT it pukes coolant out the engine fill cap when I try to do this. Using the apparatus pictured above, I can fill the system part way up to the funnel and then run the engine and let it puke out all the air without losing a lot of coolant and making a mess.

Ogre is probably right. (Thanks for the + tho! ) My '85 was already up on jack stands so I just left it there while I filled the cooling system. Then I made the mistake of starting the car without the cap on the thermostat housing, and the garage filled with a spray of glycol droplets and steam. That SUCKED; don't do that.

Ed

quote Originally posted by edhering: Then I made the mistake of starting the car without the cap on the thermostat housing, and the garage filled with a spray of glycol droplets and steamEd

That's why I use the funnel on the thermostat housing. It takes about 15 minute with the car running to work all the air out of the system

quote Originally posted by sanderson: On my '84 I was always able to: 1) Remove both radiator cap and engine fill cap. 2) Fill the system until the radiator overlowed. 3) Cap the radiator 4) Start the engine and let it warm up and then 5) Top off the system back on the fill cap on the engine and cap it On my '88GT it pukes coolant out the engine fill cap when I try to do this. Using the apparatus pictured above, I can fill the system part way up to the funnel and then run the engine and let it puke out all the air without losing a lot of coolant and making a mess.

That's basically what I do. One extra step, though. Make sure you fill the coolant overflow tank by the radiator. As the car heats up, it may try to pull coolant from the tank and may suck air into the system if that's not full. So, top it off first, then follow the rest of your directions.

The only other issue is bleeding the heater core, but that's only an issue if you've removed the core, etc.

Just pat it on the back and say" Dats a gooo babyeeee" while rocking it side to side

I just fill it, start it for 10 seconds, then turn it off, squeeze all the rubber hoses once, and top it off. Ive never had a problem with filling it.

I use a water restrictor plate for mine so I don't have a problem with air in the system.

I need to do this also.... when adding coolant, I should premix it right? Also, I'm not sure whats in there right now... EG or PG stuff, how can I tell the difference because I read its not good to mix them.

I would say that if you don't know what kind of coolant is in your car, that alone is enough reason to drain, flush, and re-fill it.

As for mixing the coolant, that depends. These days I just buy the pre-mixed stuff, and fill with that, because it saves a ton of hassle. I have always added a 50-50 mix of coolant and water to my cars.

After flushing with water you could probably fill with 50-50 and then fill the overflow tank with pure antifreeze and be okay. You'd want to make sure you got as much water out of the system as possible first, though.

IMHO of course. Always check the mix with a hygrometer after you've filled your cooling system and run the car for a while. And always check the mix before it starts getting really cold outside.

Ed

quote Originally posted by edhering: I would say that if you don't know what kind of coolant is in your car, that alone is enough reason to drain, flush, and re-fill it. As for mixing the coolant, that depends. These days I just buy the pre-mixed stuff, and fill with that, because it saves a ton of hassle. I have always added a 50-50 mix of coolant and water to my cars. After flushing with water you could probably fill with 50-50 and then fill the overflow tank with pure antifreeze and be okay. You'd want to make sure you got as much water out of the system as possible first, though. IMHO of course. Always check the mix with a hygrometer after you've filled your cooling system and run the car for a while. And always check the mix before it starts getting really cold outside. Ed

My system was flushed and refilled a few months ago so its not old stuff. Its just that it was done by a shop who is moving and I can't contact them for info right now. I also just picked up a bottle of redline water wetter. So I'm going to be putting that in, hopefully I'll be running a little cooler.

Shops generally don't use PG based unless specificaly asked for. Even then they may not.

If you are just adding coolant... you want to add 50/50 mixed stuff. Make it yourself or buy it mixed.

That of course assumes the thing was filled right last service and since.... you need to get a small coolant tester or some test strips and see what the mix is at. If there is to much coolant, add plain water. Too much water add straight coolant.

If you are filling a mostly empty system you just flushed, DO NOT use premixed coolant. There will still be plenty of water in there what will make premix weak as soon as you put it in. There is no way to know how much water is in the engine etc... The trick here is drop in 7-8 quarts of straight anti freeze. then the rest water. If the overflow tank is empty, fill that with 50/50 mix.(A little strong on the antifreeze amount is ok.)

I've always just filled it from the back with the front cap off until it comes out. Cap the radiator, top it off at the back. Install the rear cap. Here's the big key to it... make sure the overflow tank has coolant in it. Run it, and check the over-flow tank level. Add coolant through it. I've never had to cycle, keep topping off, etc. Maybe I've always been lucky, but this process has been foolproof in my experience on both 4's and 6's.

I'v e premixed it this way... get 2 gals of antifreeze of choice and a gal of distilled water. Pour half of the first gallon of antifreeze, then half of the distilled water, then half of the antifreeze again (careful, this is where the radiator gets full), repeat until those two gallons (one antifreeze, one water) are in. Top off with straight Anti-Freeze, which won't be much. This yields about a 60/40 af/h20 mix, good for about -30*F to -35*F and a 240*F to 250*F boil over, more than enough for 90% of the US. If you want stronger, aim for a 70/30 mix, but never exceed it.

Here is a good write-up from one of our members.

http://www.lonestarfieros.org/%7Ebhughes/RadFill/RadFill.html

Unless you live in Fairbanks Alaska, several years ago, - 68 deg with no wind.This is not even the record.