Hey bryson I was just wondering did you do any work on the exhaust manifold...like any port and polishing?

I left you a reply on the ottawa sight, basically I can get you your wiring diagrams.

Aaron

.

I am making a header right now; the rest of my mandrel bends for my primaries came in yesterday. I got the ECU pinouts, but I'm not sure what else I will need to do to wire the TEC3. I'll check the ottawa site. Thanks!
--Bryson

Well, I got the header tacked up today. I've got a few pictures; I'm really excited and I think im going to start going pretty fast because I've got my friend with his soon to be T70 RX7 working right beside me in the same garage! Anyway, I need to make a collector and get them welded the rest of the way.


Happy New Year!!!
--Bryson

What do you think you're doing? That's not equal length!

Haha yes they are! You just need to get your eyes checked Actually, that's the second time I have made the headers. The first time I had the turbo facing downward and it wouldnt fit because it hit the water pump housing. This time that one long primary barley hits it. I thought I could get away with a spacer, but the only one I have is 3/8" thick and I would need a half inch. I started making the last primary over again, but it looks like I may have to remake the one next to it as well. Maybe I can just turn these things upside down and reweld to the flange.....I guess I will see when I get to the shop. So far the header has been one of the most challenging but also most fun things I have done! It's only my second time welding, so every time I make a weld it gets better. I'll try to get some pictures of the new primaries when I get home. I might also start a thread in O/T with a few pictures of my friend's RX7...it's a car anyone can respect!
--Bryson

I'm having a friend make up a turbo manifold out of a stock cast manifold to see how it works out. I'm conserned that your header will crack. The best steel/stainless steel headers crack frequently with a turbo, unless some really thick guage metal is used. From what I can see, you used the first 3" from a newer style stock header on a Quad 4, then welded on manderel bent mild steel exhaust tubes. As good as it looks, I really don't think its going to survive long. I have yet to see a factory turbo manifold that wasn't made from cast iron.

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: I'm having a friend make up a turbo manifold out of a stock cast manifold to see how it works out. I'm conserned that your header will crack. The best steel/stainless steel headers crack frequently with a turbo, unless some really thick guage metal is used.

The original header is probably 410SS (~12% chrome, no nickel). It's looks like the new stuff is 304SS. I've worked 29 years in oil refining. In a refinery this type of weld is done with preheat (~400'F) and 309L SS rod. After tacking, taking it to a welding pro may pay off in the long run. Watch out for the garden variety muffler shops. Many of them will weld stainless with carbon steel rod.

When you say you are modifying the stock cast manifold, I assume you are talking about the H.O. manifold. I wanted to do that, but I was worried about welding cast iron. The header I made is actually mild steel. I am going to use brackets and such so that the header will not support any weight at all. It will probably still have problems, but I might make another header out of stainless when I save up some money and use this one as a template. I'm almost finished changing those primaries around so this will work, so I'll take pictures tomorrow.
--Bryson

Welding cast iron is actually really strong but even with that I would highly reccomend braces from the block to the turbo so that the exhaust gasket doesn't blow from the rocking of the manifold (the studs are into aluminum). Bracing will certainly prolong the life of your header.
Maybe you might want to consider changing the flange(s) on one of these:

Its a H22 turbo header, about 175$ on ebay

Looking good man. Have a couple questions, what gear ratio are you using in your 282, and are you planning on running an oil cooler, if so I have pictures of a 3.4 tdc cooler adaptor on my q4w41 block with ac and all, I have not mounted it to the cradle in the calais though but if you want dimension to see if it will fit, shoot me an email. I have pics of it too.

Hey! I thought about changing the flange from a different aftermarket header but I have found that nearly all of the other four cylinder cars out there have ports that are closer together. That headers would put my turbo a little more down, but I think that the primary closest to the front of the engine (if you are looking at it from the tubes, the one on the right) would hit the water pump housing thing. Here are a few pictures of how I had to change my header today.


See the aluminum thing at the right side of the picture? That's the biggest problem I came across. I could hardly go down at all from the port without hitting it. Anyway, I have to figure out a collector, which is going to be horrible. I feel really sick, which is why I left the shop early, so I am going to try to get tons of sleep so I can get started early tomorrow.
--Bryson

I'll give you a hint about how to do a collector, Iv'e never done one myself, but Ive asked around. Get a flat piece of metal about 1/8" or so thick, and about 6"X6" square, whatever covers up the 4 tubes. Then get a hole saw and punch the four holes the same diameter as the tubes, In the proper location. Get a collector piece, basically a tube that is clover shaped on the end. Weld the plate with the holes to the tubes all the way around, including the inside, when you are satisfied that there are not any leaks to the plate, you can cut the outside of the plate to the shape of the collector piece, then weld the collector on.

Hey Bryson! I scored some "QUAD4" badges at the junkyard today. They're chrome with a red inlay in the 4. Let me know if you're interested. They're also listed in the Mall.

looks sweet man... do you by chance have any good pics of the shift linkage stuff? i'm doing some reserch for engine swaps in my mr2 ;-)

thanks
mark

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: Looking good man. Have a couple questions, what gear ratio are you using in your 282, and are you planning on running an oil cooler, if so I have pictures of a 3.4 tdc cooler adaptor on my q4w41 block with ac and all, I have not mounted it to the cradle in the calais though but if you want dimension to see if it will fit, shoot me an email. I have pics of it too.

I have a W41... I'd be interested in seeing those pictures. Think you could post them here?

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'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

'

[This message has been edited by 454Fiero (edited 04-12-2004).]

still working on the pip, but check out www.geocities.com/p8ntman442 for some pics. Bryson, your FDR from an I series is 3.64, I can get the individual gear ratios if you need them, it will just take some digging. My tranny is a 3.91 fdr and a pain in the butt to get parts for. that manifold is coming out nice.

Thanks for the info on my final drive. 3.64 seems knid of low to me, but hopefully the car will have enough power to make it enjoyable. Thanks also for the pictures! I was looking at oil coolers last night and I really need to go ahead and buy one. For the dyno sheets, I'm sure I will have several because I need to tune my car. I'm going to do the first tuning on the street just to get a decent starting point (datalogging the A/F ratio), then I'm going to take it to a dyno. My friends and I are going to split the cost of a few hours. One has the '93 single T70 RX7, and the other has a 2.0L Jetta we turbocharged. I'll post a couple dyno graphs to show a the effects of tuning the car in different ways. Hopefully this will be something that can help anyone who is tuning their car, not just Quad4 guys. To the shop!!
--Bryson

I'll give you a hint. *smirk*

http://www.burnsstainless.com/MergeCollectors/4into1base/4into1base.html

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: I'll give you a hint about how to do a collector, Iv'e never done one myself, but Ive asked around. Get a flat piece of metal ab

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: still working on the pip, but check out www.geocities.com/p8ntman442 for some pics. Bryson, your FDR from an I series is 3.64, I can get the individual gear ratios if you need them, it will just take some digging. My tranny is a 3.91 fdr and a pain in the butt to get parts for. that manifold is coming out nice.

Hey P8ntman, I'd like to know what the gear ratios are if you don't mind digging them up. I have the 3.64 FDR tranny with my quad 4, and it's actually not bad. I thought it would be too tall for my liking, but the quad 4 has enough pep in the low revs for simple around town driving. I don't know how different your motor will be though in the low revs. Anyway, with this tranny in 5th gear, your gonna be cruising at just over 2000rpm (maybe 2300?) at 60mph. Also, I think if you pull it up to redline, you can hit 60mph in second gear.

Should be good for more then 60 in second, I do that in my 2.8. I get a slightly quicker 0-60 by shifting 3rd at 50. Last I checked the Q4 rev limiter is set for 7.5K! I'll say, 75 mph!!

edited because I like to keep my sig down to 1 per topic.

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 01-05-2004).]

I have the part numbers for the alternate ratios if you'd like them. Not sure how many are still available.

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: I'll give you a hint. *smirk* http://www.burnsstainless.com/MergeCollectors/4into1base/4into1base.html

Also worth reading the Burn Stainless section on "construction"

From Gm, The 3.61 (not 3.64 my bad) may be available, however the 3.94 FRD that came with W41 cars, not the 3.94 in the later achievas, are discontinued, as are most all the parts for Q4's and thier trannies.
Ratios for 1990:
1st 3.50
2nd 2.19
3rd 1.38
4th 1.03
5th 0.81 (notice the shorter 5th gear)
Axle 3.61

For 1991, 2nd-5th stayed the same (as did the 3.61 axle ratio), but 1st was shortened to 3.77 for a better launch.

For 92-94:

1st 3.50
2nd 2.05 (lengthened out for better 2-3 shift)
3rd 1.38
4th 1.03
5th 0.72 (back to the long 5th for fuel econ reasons)
Axle 3.94 (shortened everything up......hence the longer 5th).

[This message has been edited by p8ntman442 (edited 01-05-2004).]

www.car-part.com your best hope for a 3.94 witch is really the perfect transmission for the Q4.

actually the 91 w41 3.94 is the best, the later 3.94 is second best hence the 1000 dollars I just dumped into rebuilding mine and adding a lsd.

Looking like it's going to FLY!!

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New Name.... New Attitude....
AKA. "SmoothGT"....
Custom Built SHAVED~WIDEBODY~GT!!

***If you like my contribution and the new attitude, Please rate me with a Positive.***

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: From Gm, The 3.61 (not 3.64 my bad) may be available, however the 3.94 FRD that came with W41 cars, not the 3.94 in the later achievas, are discontinued, as are most all the parts for Q4's and thier trannies. Ratios for 1990: 1st 3.50 2nd 2.19 3rd 1.38 4th 1.03 5th 0.81 (notice the shorter 5th gear) Axle 3.61 For 1991, 2nd-5th stayed the same (as did the 3.61 axle ratio), but 1st was shortened to 3.77 for a better launch. For 92-94: 1st 3.50 2nd 2.05 (lengthened out for better 2-3 shift) 3rd 1.38 4th 1.03 5th 0.72 (back to the long 5th for fuel econ reasons) Axle 3.94 (shortened everything up......hence the longer 5th).

What's your source for this info? The only use I've been able to find of the 2.19 2nd was paired with the 3.77 1st in the MU1 box used on Olds W-bodies (Cutlass?)

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

www.quad4forums.com is my source, there was a big argument over it and those were the final results, based on speeds at rpm on the highway, and service manuals.

Think you could find the link? I'd like to read that.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

you might have to be a member to join, but thats ok, its a good site for info, lots of know it alls and bullshitters, its kinda small so there is a lot of personal stuff mixed in rather than like a big site where you dont want to piss anyone off. http://www.quad4forums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520

Thanks... I'll give it a look.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

Bump!!
Cant let this die

quote Originally posted by 454Fiero: not trying to start trouble. but i want to see a dyno slip when this is done. Simply because i would consider building a quad4 like this one if it can infact produce that kind of power. Any chance Bryson?

Me to.... I would very much like to get results....Please count me in.

I have a question. why is the quad 4 cam tower cover positioned with the words right side up on most of the quad 4 conversions. The quad 4 in our olds calais 442 is has the intake below the lettering and the exhaust above the lettering. I keep seeing quad 4's in the back of fieros and the exhaust is below the letters and the intake is above the letters, but the quad 4 cover is still positioned with the words right side up. Can you just disconnect the ignition module and the spark plug boots from the underside and flip the cover around or am i missing something? Its really confusing because my brain is saying something is different. In our olds, the timing chain and cover is on the left side of the engine, and its closest to the 'H' in high output. If you were to turn the engine around like bryson is doing, then the timing chain/cover would be on left like it is, and the cover leters should be upside down, but they are not. Just a little help???
thanks
sean

quote Originally posted by spawningvat: I have a question. why is the quad 4 cam tower cover positioned with the words right side up on most of the quad 4 conversions. The quad 4 in our olds calais 442 is has the intake below the lettering and the exhaust above the lettering. I keep seeing quad 4's in the back of fieros and the exhaust is below the letters and the intake is above the letters, but the quad 4 cover is still positioned with the words right side up. Can you just disconnect the ignition module and the spark plug boots from the underside and flip the cover around or am i missing something? Its really confusing because my brain is saying something is different. In our olds, the timing chain and cover is on the left side of the engine, and its closest to the 'H' in high output. If you were to turn the engine around like bryson is doing, then the timing chain/cover would be on left like it is, and the cover leters should be upside down, but they are not. Just a little help??? thanks sean

If I'm understanding your question correctly, you want to know if the engine is turned around. It's not. The engine is in the same position in the Fiero as it is in a fwd car, just behind the driver rather than in front of......
Think of it like this, on your calais, what side is the tranny on, drivers or passenger? Driver right?..... Now what side is the tranny on in the Fiero, drivers or passenger. Driver's side.

<<<If I'm understanding your question correctly, you want to know if the engine is turned around. It's not. The engine is in the same position in the Fiero as it is in a fwd car, just behind the driver rather than in front of......
Think of it like this, on your calais, what side is the tranny on, drivers or passenger? Driver right?..... Now what side is the tranny on in the Fiero, drivers or passenger. Driver's side. >>>

Yea the engine has the same orientation except its in the back. But the cam cover plate is flipped so you can still read it while looking at the engine in the back. How did they flip it? 2 of the bolts are spaced wider than the other 2, plus the ignition module is located under the cover on the right side under the "DOHC".

Our calais, looks like this one minus the red paint scheme: http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/341557/6 you might need to copy and paste it.

if you can see it, you'll see the timing chain is on the passenger side. When the engine is relocated to a fiero, the timing chain is still on the passenger side, but the cover, which also has the module and the spark plugs boots is reversed, so you can still read it right side up in the back of a fiero.

Edit: I think there used to be a show called "How'd they do that" or something to that effect. I'm still wondering that about the cam tower cover.

[This message has been edited by spawningvat (edited 01-19-2004).]