quote Originally posted by spawningvat: I have a question. why is the quad 4 cam tower cover positioned with the words right side up on most of the quad 4 conversions. The quad 4 in our olds calais 442 is has the intake below the lettering and the exhaust above the lettering. I keep seeing quad 4's in the back of fieros and the exhaust is below the letters and the intake is above the letters, but the quad 4 cover is still positioned with the words right side up. Can you just disconnect the ignition module and the spark plug boots from the underside and flip the cover around or am i missing something? Its really confusing because my brain is saying something is different. In our olds, the timing chain and cover is on the left side of the engine, and its closest to the 'H' in high output. If you were to turn the engine around like bryson is doing, then the timing chain/cover would be on left like it is, and the cover leters should be upside down, but they are not. Just a little help??? thanks sean

You can remote mount the IDI and then flip the cover around. To do this you then need to bolt the cover down using the actual cam tower bolts thus messing with the torque sequence. I'm leaving mine in the original (upside down) position.

Ahh...(that's the "now i see the light" ahh) Thanks Sanderson.

later
sean

A little update...havin' a blast

I'm about finished with it; that picture was taken the other day. I need to plug in all the connectors and see about some things (fuel pump circuit, VSS, A/C), but hopefully I can get this thing fired up soon!
--Bryson

awsome job man. it is nice to see a 4 cyl gettin worked on (even though im building my V6) the pics are awsome. keep up the awsome job. can wait to see it finished!!!!!!!!

Sweet holy wiring batman! looks awesome!

Thanks! I got to shift my transmission for the first time in a year last night! It was incredible...I can't wait to finish the car to drive it. I finished all of the wiring except for the A/C wires, which I need to do some more research on to make them work with the TEC3. I am running a small drycell battery at the front of the car, and I just bought the wires for it. I should have all of the wiring finished tonight. I've still got to get a slave, get some spark plug wires, make a collector (and the rest of my exhaust), and put the rear brakes and wheels back on. Fortunatley, I found out the other night that I can weld!! I had tacked things before, but never run a bead. I welded up some of the boost tubes and exhaust for my friend's RX7, and they looked good enough to be shown!! I don't know much else about it, which makes it tough if I want to do anything other than mild steel to mild steel. Anyway, I see the light at the end of the tunnel! Hopefully I can start it up soon, but I dont have Mondays or Wednesdays open because of classes until 9:30pm and I'm going to be out of town next weekend. Hopefully I'll update tonight with what I got done!
--Bryson

You rock man....

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

i dont think i could handle all of those wires......dont have the patience, cant wait to see it done it should be amazing

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FieroGt3 Website! Check it out.

Took me about 40 hours to wire the harness, and I still have to re work it alittle. I noticed the coil packs are 87-88 duke style, Guess you want reliability instead of the stock style.

The coils are actually Electromotive units that I mounted there. I could have run the stock coils and bypassed the ignition module, but what's the fun in that? I love the way it looks without the IDI cover on, which is actually the main reason I am running the Electromotive DFUs. Now that the wires are finished (about a week ago I would have told you 40hrs was overestimating, but now I believe you!), I have to figure out how in the world to straighten things up! With all of the splices from three different harnesses, the wires look like a bundle of snakes! I also started making my collector tonight; I have an idea that will hopefully work! I'll post more progress tomorrow!
--Bryson

The harness for my N* took about 40 hours, and it still didn't come out quite right. Wiring's not hard, just tedious and time consuming.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Do that again, only mean it this time

I'd concur for 40 hours for the first one. It really helped to mock up a firewall on the cradle outside the car to help with the wire routing and length:

Here it is closer to the finshed product:

Bryson, I hope to take mine down the road tomorrow for a test drive.

[This message has been edited by sanderson (edited 01-24-2004).]

Bryson, you da man! Take it from a Navy Aircraft Electronics Technician who works on aircraft much older than our Fiero's; rigging a wiring harness from scratch is tedious work. I commend you for your persistance, and you've shown yourself as a role model to all Fiero owners.

Keep it up man!

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Airman Michael C Casaceli
Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy
1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (project starts in MARCH 2004)
1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (RIP. KIA by a Ford)
19** Chevy S-10....Coming soon

Well, I got rid of this:

but now that the engine bay has been rid of that, its sticking out into the center console like some multicolored afro...I need to work on that some tomorrow. I made 3 collectors, none of which worked, so I've got to get some 4" pipe and a hammer and get to work on Tuesday since I won't have time tomorrow. Anyway, anyone have any ideas on where to run a power wire through the front firewall? Thanks,
--Bryson

If you are relocating your battery why not run it alongside the gas tank inside a hose to the front compartment.

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Tuners of the Quickest 4.9
12.51@118 mph

4.5/4.9 (RSR)Hi Perf. Caddi-V8 Fully Blueprint&Balanced Rotating Assembly
Custom Intake Manifold
Custom Machined Heads
Victor Reinz Head Gaskets
50-150HP Nos Power Shot.
Holley 510-0-4412C Carb.

BBBB U U MM MM PPPPP
B B U U M M M M P P
B B U U M M M M P P
BBBB U U M M M M PPPPP
B B U U M M M M P
B B U U M MM M P
BBBBB UUUU M M M P

quote Originally posted by sanderson: You can remote mount the IDI and then flip the cover around. To do this you then need to bolt the cover down using the actual cam tower bolts thus messing with the torque sequence. I'm leaving mine in the original (upside down) position.

Actually, you don't even need to remote mount the IDI. You just need to unbolt it and turn it around, it works perfect. Almost like they had something in mind...?

No remote mount IDI in that pic, but I've since flipped it back because I didn't like taking out the cam tower bolts all the time and was close to stripping some out.. darn aluminum heads.

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1988 Quad 4 Coupe 5 speed click for more pics
1986 GT 5 speed
AOL: LastMinuteBastrd AIM: SavedbyJebus

bump

Hey everyone, I didn't have a chance to get any pictures but MAN you have to see how it's looking! I have the turbo mounted on the header and my first 2 boost tubes run to the intercoolers and it's so insane looking! I have half my fuel lines run -- the other fittings I needed came in today so I can finish them tomorrow. The coolant and oil drain for the turbo are finished, but I have to run the oil feed, which isn't a big deal. I have to hook up the positive for the car and for the starter, and I need to finish up the clutch before I can drive it. The battery fits perfectly in a little corner of the trunk (it only weighs about 10lbs) and I don't have to use so much expensive wire. I can't wait to get some pictures for you guys; I've done so much without pictures, but it has all been little things that aren't worth taking pictures of but take up a TON of time. My friend also finished his RX7...beautiful! We need to get it tuned, so it isn't driveable yet, but it can move in and out of the shop. Anyway, I'll keep everyone posted!!!
--Bryson

I can't wait to see this thing some day....seems like it'll be a wicked little engine. Maybe a handful, with tuning, reliability, driveability, etc. but definitely sounds fun! Do you plan on taking it to some shows?

Bryce
88 GT

I am glad you are almost done
I can't wait to see pictures of this.......
You have to tell us how it feels...... and we want details

[This message has been edited by 85LAMB (edited 02-12-2004).]

Here are some pics and a very detailed laundry list of what I have to do:

*Hook up speed sensor
*Run line for clutch slave
*Get a flange and make an exhaust
*Buy and put on spark plug wires and new plugs
*Fill with oil/coolant
*Weld on wastegate flange and run vaccuum/boost reference
*Set up ECU
*Run wire to switch on radiator fan (does anyone know if there's a wire for this near the ECU?)
*Bleed brakes
*Buy and install side scoops

--That's all I can think of...I'm a little worried about the tuning, but hopefully I can find a wideband O2 sensor and a plug to work with the TEC3, since it has the ability to use one. I'll keep everyone posted with my progress!!

Since you have used the vent area, will the engine bay passively vent the heat or will fans be required?

Under your dash look for a green wire with a white stripe. All you need to do is run a wire off of that into a switch and from the switch to ground. Mount the switch in your ash tray and your set.

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 02-15-2004).]

I REALLY hope you engine is mounted damn solid. It seems as thogh any movement is going to either rub that hose on the trunk wall, Or put your boost tube thru the back window. With all the other stuff you've already done, I'm sure this is all take care of and accounted for, just quick 30 second observations. Is anything else holdng the turbo, or is it just on that manifold??

Good work! Keep it up!

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 02-15-2004).]

Doesn't look like a normal decklid will work on your car anymore, What are you planning? Im really suprised you opted to mount the Turbo on top of the manifold as opposed to hanging off the bottom of it, I think you will need to do something to the decklid to keep it from burning up. The plastic and the paint will not hold up to those kind of temperatures that the turbo runs at. We are talking about close to glowing red. Also the trunk's seal will burn. That is a nice size turbo though!

I think it looks good. I would have done thing differently but hey thats just me. I will make some suggestions and feel free to comment if you want.

Yes the turbo is mounted fairly high. I would have tried to put it down a bit lower so its not so close to the decklid. Of course you can always change this later. Hell you fabbed it all up that way in the first place so I know it can be moved if you find out it doesn't work well in that location

I also would have mounted the BOV closer to the TB. Should be a bit better response by having it there. I could be wrong but most of he BOV's I see mounted are fairly close to the TB for a quicker response time when that TB closes shut. Also I have never seen one mounted before the intercooler. Your design will still work. But it seems to me that when the TB closes the air that the turbo has pushed all the way to the TB will have to come all the way back through both intercoolers in order to reach and escape out the BOV. Correct?? THats just the way I would have done it is all.

Also looking at the turbo to intercooler routing, the feed pipe from the turbo to the intercooler is above the glass line where the decklid would sit. You are either going to have to modify your decklid or reroute the feed pipe to route underneath the other intake pipe that runs from the passenger intercooler to the drivers intercooler. I hope that made sense and you are able to understand what I am talking about. Or you have already test fit your decklid and it all fits but by looking at one of the pics it doesnt' look like it will. But maybe its just he angle

Either way I love it!. It will sure be a beast once you get it all tuned. Glad to see someone going to this extreme. Its gonna make some good power and I am sure once its all broken in and tuned, you will have no time spanking plenty of fast cars. Get to a strip so we can add your car to the E.T. qtr mile times thread.

Wow... looks great Bryson. I am gonna have to come by the shop to see it up close and personal. I bought an 86 GT with the SC3800II conversion since the last time we spoke. I am still driving the SE as a daily driver...

Looking awesome! Cant wait to see what that thing does when it's finished! Nice work.

you HAVE to meet up with me in greenville when you get done with that thing. its going to be a beast.

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

definately have my interest, anyone know how much weight swapping in a Quad 4 to an 87 2.5 5spd whould shave?

Practically no difference, you are only loosing a cast iron head but putting in a heavier crank, exhaust manifold and an extra cam. So, you might put on a couple of pounds, but most likley less then 30.

what size is that turbo? is it a P trim? how many mm is the compressor wheel? what type of tranny are you running?

Thanks
Prasad

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"Turbo Cars are like hot women. A little edgy, every guy wants one, some guys can't handle them, and if you throw a little alchohol in the mix they'll rock your world"
1986 GT (waiting for Buick GN setup trasplant)
1984SE 5 Speed W/SBC V8
1987 Buick GN(10.70@124MPH)
1987 Trans Am SBC 355cid Twin Turbo(no track times yet)
1992 GMC Typhoon(13.20@ 99mph)
Other cars; JaguarXJ6 & Mercedes AMG 500SEC

o my god that is serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VIVA -LA -4BANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW THAT IS ONE SERIOUS FIERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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1986 gold fiero se
(paint soon thanks to TAX-MAN)

1987 4 banger
30,000 miles MINT

2001 Intrepid RT
black on black with black wheels and black windows

2004 jeep liberty
yeah, I know. its a girl car.
http://draculajones.com/gold_fiero2/

Thanks everyone for the positive response!! The engine bay will passivley vent the heat I imagine; I made a pretty large reverse scoop (just like the mustang scoop) in the decklid to help with engine heat and clearance issues. I am going to run solid engine mounts -- that's one thing I forgot to list and I actually forgot I still had to do! Thanks for the reminder! There is actually a lot more room that it seems, but I still want to mount the engine solid so that I don't take chances. I have some braces made up to hold the turbo to help support some weight. I know that mild steel manifold won't last long, but I'm trying to make it last until I can save up a little extra money and build a stainless one. I was going to run the turbo towards the bottom, but the headers would have been crazy difficult to make, and I think I would have had to take a hammer to the trunk for the turbo. I think my turbo is not in a very good location, so the next headers will either set the turbo down some or run towards the transmission. I am looking for some sort of sleeve to put over my turbine housing to keep the heat off of the decklid and everything else. I will also probably put some insulation on the underside of my decklid to help with that as well. I didn't think about the trunk seal; that's a good point. The seal is messed up anyway, so maybe I can use this one as a guinea pig to try different things to keep my new one from melting. As far as the location of the BOV, it is actuated by a vaccuum reference from the manifold (which you probably know). Since it will open and close at the same time regardless of where it is on the boost line, I decided to put it close to the turbo because it is designed to prevent compressor surge, which is boost backing up to the turbo. I looked at it somewhat opposite from you. From a performance standpoint, it may be better to mount it by the TB so that when you are back on the gas after a shift less area has to be pressurized, but for safety of the turbo (and so I didn't have to weld that flange onto a different pipe ), I like being able to release the air right at the turbo so that there is no chance of the charge air pressurizing the housing. Topcat: wow!! Yeah you're right you gotta come by the shop; I want to see YOUR car! I have yet to see a Fiero with any other engine swap, and the 3800SC is one of my favorites. The turbo is a T3/T04E with a 60trim compressor wheel. I am not positive, but I think that a 60 trim is a 60mm inducer on the compressor side. I can check that today or tomorrow. The turbine wheel is what Garrett calls a "Stage 3" wheel. It is the largest they offer, and since I have a "larger displacement" 4 cyl (haha) they thought that would be best for the amount of power I am looking to make. I think that P and Q trims are Turbonetics options because my friend had to choose between those for his T70 on his RX7. I'm using the stock Getrag 282, but I've got a spare I picked up and I'm going to build when I get some money. I don't drive hard and the car will hardly ever see high boost, so hopefully I'll have some time before I need the other one finished. By the way -- looks like you have some awesome cars youself! I'm going to be setting up an water/alcohol injection system in my friend's RX7 and in my car as well. I was talking to a guy who owns a dyno and does amazing work and he was telling me about someone else with a TEC3 that has it programmed to open 8 other injectors when he flips a switch and it runs alcohol (or nitro methane, I don't remember) and completely different fuel maps all the way down the track, and once he lets off the pedal it immediately switches back over to gasoline to keep the cylinders lubricated! I'm not going to do anything that radical, but I'm glad to know my ECU has that kind of capability. I at least want to have two different setups for economy driving and performance. Anyway, I've got class in about an hour and a paper to write so I'm off for now!
Thanks everyone!
--Bryson

Some honda guys actually like to weld the bov flange to the outlet of the intercooler. No clue why. I put mine right in front of the throttle body.

quote Originally posted by stevegibbs: I also would have mounted the BOV closer to the TB. Should be a bit better response by having it there. I could be wrong but most of he BOV's I see mounted are fairly close to the TB for a quicker response time when that TB closes shut. Also I have never seen one mounted before the intercooler. Your design will still work. But it seems to me that when the TB closes the air that the turbo has pushed all the way to the TB will have to come all the way back through both intercoolers in order to reach and escape out the BOV. Correct?? THats just the way I would have done it is all.

Thanks for the reply, I also like the Alcohol injection setup. So far we were able to run 16 psi with a PT70 turbo & 72 lbs injectors on 93 octane with 0 knock retard ,where with alcohol we were able to to push 20 psi with alcohol and 93 octane 0 knock retard with the same setup. Tuning with alky is little different as far as the EGT is concerned, you need to compensate for the alky cooling the exhaust.I think these guys have a real good alky system http://www.smcenterprises.com. I beleive it is worth it for around $400.00. I can wait see your car running hard, it will be a beast. You also have nice clean installation .

Good luck
Prasad

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"Turbo Cars are like hot women. A little edgy, every guy wants one, some guys can't handle them, and if you throw a little alchohol in the mix they'll rock your world"
1986 GT (waiting for Buick GN setup trasplant)
1984SE 5 Speed W/SBC V8
1987 Buick GN(10.70@124MPH)
1987 Trans Am SBC 355cid Twin Turbo(no track times yet)
1992 GMC Typhoon(13.20@ 99mph)
Other cars; JaguarXJ6 & Mercedes AMG 500SEC

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