...ttt

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

YEAHHHHH!!!

Here's Bryson's video guys!!! Just as he, and I, promised.

www.bryson.suprememotorsports.com/bryson.mov

Right click on the link, and choose "save target as." I know, I know, it's a Quicktime video. I couldn't convert it. Real One Player can play it too if you don't have quicktime.

This is his 385 ft/lb torque run. Not the highest HP run though. Plus there were some ignition woes, as you can see and hear.

Dial up people--------this is a 7MB file. Grab some chips and a beer. You'll be here awhile.

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PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli
Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy
1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!)
1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford)
1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!

[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 06-26-2004).]

Nice video, it's nice to see people actually going to a dyno every once in a while. Must feel pretty good to get those kind of numbers out of your project.

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Alan Frazier
'86 GT-'92 3.4 TDC 5 speed(sold)
'84 2m4 project car
'88 Silver coupe, auto For Sale

I love to hear those quads wind up. That is going to be a holy terror on the street. Any plans to take it to a dragstrip and get some times?

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I have the precious gift of patience.....it just takes too long to use it!

I can't wait to race him when I'm finished with my Ecotec Turbo Coupe. Bryson and I are shooting for the same HP area, and the motor in his GT is the earlier "version" of mine.

I can't wait!!!

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PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli
Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy
1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!)
1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford)
1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!

I usually don't get into these Technical type of threads since i know jack **** about motors. But being a Quad4 HO owner, ur making me want to take my Quad4 HO out of my 90 GTZ and put it in my 84 2m4.

Your also making me wanna switch from doing a 350 swap to a quad4 swap.

I can't wait to continue reading your progress on this impressive motor. I know alot of Beretta owners on Bstuff.com have been drooling all over this thread. I know i am!!!

Can't wait to see more vids and dyno sheets

P.S. Wanna build me a mild turbo quad4 for my GTZ hehe j/k

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Lothurin

How about some pictures as to what the whole assembly looks like...engine and exterior pictures.....especially the exhaust ones

Bryson et al :
Thank-you for using a format that is usable for those of us who loathe M/soft!

hey Bryson, wondering if We could exchange phone numbers I have a lot of questions about the swap. you can either e-mail me at RaceF40@yahoo.com or call 937-608-6601 I will call back to save long distance cost

quote Originally posted by Key Of David: I love to hear those quads wind up. That is going to be a holy terror on the street. Any plans to take it to a dragstrip and get some times?

Yeah! I need to throw a Quad 4 deep in to the 12s (maybe 11s!?) on my 1/4 mile database 3800s and SBCs would have some company.

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- Kyle

Fiero Quarter Mile Database
Fiero Image Gallery

Got bored...decided to try and throw up some pictures. It's really dirty and everything needs to be organized (wires and such) but PLEASE PLEASE give me ideas on little things I can do. I want to make my engine bay really clean looking and pretty trick. For example, what do you guys used in the hole where the wires come through? I need to insulate the metal edges some way so they don't rub through the wires. Also, I know I need to make some sort of hard tube intake for the turbo -- this will not only look better but will give me more power. Thanks for the suggestions! Any and all criticisms are welcome!


^^my water/alcohol resevoir

Also -- is it possible to ceramic coat my center cartridge along with my turbine housing? I know the housing can be done, but could I do the cartridge as well if I plugged the oil and coolant inlets and outlets and masked off the impellers? Thanks,
--Bryson

quote Originally posted by bryson: For example, what do you guys used in the hole where the wires come through? I need to insulate the metal edges some way so they don't rub through the wires.

I'd say just use the stock Fiero pass through. That's what I'm doing with my Northstar when I rework the wiring harness. The piece is, after all, custom made for that application.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Did you splice the passthrough in? That just looks like a lot of splicing, but I geuss I would have to do it anyway to shorten all of my wires. Thanks! Any other ideas on making this look good would be helpful!
--Bryson

quote Originally posted by bryson: Did you splice the passthrough in? That just looks like a lot of splicing, but I geuss I would have to do it anyway to shorten all of my wires. Thanks! Any other ideas on making this look good would be helpful! --Bryson

Bryson,

On my Quad 4, I used the Quad 4 pass through but then shortened all the wires in the engine compartment. There was just enough length on the passenger comparment side for the plugs to reach the ecm. My ECM is mounted for the plugs in the bottom

quote Originally posted by bryson: Did you splice the passthrough in? That just looks like a lot of splicing, but I geuss I would have to do it anyway to shorten all of my wires. Thanks! Any other ideas on making this look good would be helpful! --Bryson

The Fiero pass-through comes apart in two pieces. Just pull it apart, put it around your wires and use potting compound to hold the wires in place. No splicing necessary.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Awesome! I'll try that soon. Where can I get the "potting compound"?. Scott -- how is yours doing? I think I might paint mine black as well, but I've been through so many choices in my head nothing is for sure anymore. Thanks for your help!
--Bryson

quote Originally posted by bryson: Scott -- how is yours doing? I think I might paint mine black as well, but I've been through so many choices in my head nothing is for sure anymore. Thanks for your help! --Bryson

After correcting a little wiring faux pas I have the speedomter working. I'm using it as my daily driver right now while I work on my '88 GT. The Quad 4 has been getting 27 MPG commuting so I think it's good for over 30 on the open road and a lto more fun to drive than the 2.8 five speed.

This is how I have done my conversions.


I take the two halfs apart then cut out a groove in the glue for new wires, fill with new glue and put it back together.

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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6

Is the glue you refer to the same as the "potting compound" Will talked about? If so -- where can I find it? Thanks again for everyone's help! Scott -- suprisingly enough, I've been getting pretty good mileage too, but my speedo isn't working. I can use the TEC3 to translate the signal but I don't really want to use another GPO. Did you split the case and change the gear or did you wire up that circuit I remember reading about? Thanks!
--Bryson

Bryson,

On the speedo I was basically trying to duplicate what another guy here in Corpus did. He advised to split the case, install the nylon gear and then just use his wiring diagram. The problem was that he had split one too many cases. When we went to debug my speedo we discovered that on his car he was actually using the orginal Q4 VSS and then taking a signal out of the ECM to the speedo. Apparently no addtional circuitry like Rockcrawl advises is necessary with the Q4 ECM. So after discovering this we wired my VSS direct to the speedo and that worked fine. However the ECM wasn't getting a VSS signal and so it kept setting a code 24. So then I went back and wired the ECM and speedo in parallel on the VSS and everything seems fine

Hrm...I'll bump it myself to try and find out where I can buy that potting compound stuff!
--Bryson

The OEM stuff is the consistency of cured hot glue. Maybe that's an option.

quote Originally posted by bryson: Hrm...I'll bump it myself to try and find out where I can buy that potting compound stuff! --Bryson

Potting compound is primarily used as a filler to add robustness to delicate or sensitive electrical or electronic circuits. Hot Rod builders use it to hide last resort style mechanical door mechanisms on cars with shaved door handles.

www.google.com "potting compound" gives about 15,000 hits.

Google: universal repository of all knowledge.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

I searched on google before I posted and found tons of stuff, but I'm trying to find it locally if at all possible. If I've got to order it, thats not so bad I guess. BTW -- has anyone tried hot glue? I know it sounds kind of odd, but it sets up fast and is easy to work with if you mess up. Thanks again!
--bryson

This will not make the engine bay look any better but you may know this already zip tie/wire tie all the vacuum hoses. I have seen too many blown head gaskets due to hoses blowing off and over boosting.

HTH

Prtasad

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"Turbo Cars are like hot women. A little edgy, every guy wants one, some guys can't handle them, and if you throw a little alchohol in the mix they'll rock your world"
1986 GT (waiting for Buick GN setup trasplant)
1984SE 5 Speed W/SBC V8
1987 Buick GN(10.70@124MPH)
1987 Trans Am SBC 355cid Twin Turbo(no track times yet)
1992 GMC Typhoon(13.20@ 99mph)
Other cars; JaguarXJ6 & Mercedes AMG 500SEC

I just finished making this -- I'm working on a stainless header right now. This is the merge collector. People wanted $300+ for this thing! I'm thinking about selling them, but I don't know how much to ask. I'll see how much after I have someone who is good weld it completely.

I'm trying to make this header a little nicer. I'm going with the same size primaries to try to keep exhaust velocity up, but I'm going to try to get rid of all the restrictions if I can. Here is how I made the LO flange match the mandrel bends for the primaries:

before and after ^

I used a cone shaped thing from a tubing expander and pressed it into the little primaries from the LO header. I'll post more progress as I make more!
--Bryson

Bryson: Congratulations on a super neat project that gives results. It's nice to see a true pioneers work on this forum. I'd like to believe that I might be in the catagory also having been one of the first to Turbocharge the 3.4L but my engine certainly doesn't make 400HP. I would have never believed that 400 HP from the Quad Four is possible. It really shoots the argument down that there is no substitute for cubic inches but I"ve known this for some time having seen Honda Civics run the 1/4 mile in the 9's. .
I would think that you are making most of the power above 5000 RPM perhaps even at at around 6000 RPM but how does the bottom end feel and are you satisifed with the launch "out of the hole". IN any case that's one mean machine that you have built, sure to be the envy of many Fiero owners. IMO, you have an opportunity to possibly break the 11 second barrier with that engine.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://www.turbochargerpower.com/turbo.htm

Thanks for the positive feedback! I'm sure I've said this before, but it really gives me enthusiasm when people who have been on here much longer than I have give me compliments. The bottom end is what I am most pleased with, and why I decided to stick with a similar header design. The power peak is lower than most 400+hp 4cyl, but my torque is also higher across the board. The pull from as low as 2000 is impressive. Even down low it feels more powerful than my dad's M6. I haven't launched the car yet because I fear for the lief of my transmission Also, I grabbed an oil cooler from my friend's 1g DSM that he is parting out, and I got the crank trigger wheel done a little nicer than before. I had the machine shop make an aluminum "donut" to put behind the trigger wheel. I'm expecting the car to be not only faster, but hopefully more reliable and a little smoother. Anyway, thanks again and I'll try to get more pictures from today's progress!
--Bryson

you ever fix that ignition problem from the dyno??? that looks like its going to be a REALLY NICE header....

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk www.XoticRydz.tk

Yeah I got it worked out -- I just had to have that aluminum piece machined. I also drilled all of the bolts and safety wired them so they won't back out. I have to compensate for the trigger wheel turning some so I'll have to recaibrate the ECU, but that's not difficult. I just need to count the teeth again from TDC. Anyway, I forgot to get pics today, but I made two primaries. Thanks for the support guys!
--Bryson

I admire your work Bryson. Puts fire in my belly to go and build a four cylinder myself sometime.

I would be interested to see what you end up doing for a/the transmission. Something so that you can launch, hopefully...

Good luck,

Andrew

I wouldn't be too worried about launching with your transmission. The Quad 4 doesn't make a whole lot of torque without boost, doesn't have a lot of rotational mass, and because of the turbo doesn't have the kind of torque onset rate that a large N/A engine would have. I think the way the turbo smooths the torque delivery should be a lot easier on your transmission than would a Chevy of the same general power/torque levels.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

I think this car is awesome. A lot of work went into it, and obviously Bryson has some serious skills. On another note, DRIVE THAT THING. I don't mean to be rude but when you build a monster like that why are you afraid, paranoid, or uncertain of things going wrong; if the tranny doesn't hold, or your axles go out, improve upon your design and build it the way it needs to be done to avoid damage. I admire the hard work and effort that went into this car, but it irritates me that someone has built something this great and doesn't even bother to take it to the track to see how it performs. I am not a speed demon who goes to the track every weekend, but if I spent countless hours designing my fiero with 400hp I would see how it performed. I'm not asking you to dump your clutch and do burnouts, just a good launch with no or minimal tire spin. If the car can't take that, well... time for a performance built tranny.

I am 'still waiting' to see some numbers posted for 60 ft times 1/4 mile and mph. It would be very interesting; doesn't anyone else think so?

I plan on driving the car -- but nothing heavy until it is ready. I can feel plenty of power without launching hard, and the biggest thing holding me back is the fact that this car is my daily driver. I would prefer to build a transmission and swap it in to minimize downtime. Now that I have the crank trigger issue fixed I will probably take it to the track and see how it goes. I'm pretty sure the tires will let loose before I break anything in the transmission, since they are only 225s. Regardless, I will try to get to the track before I leave for college. Does anyone know the nearest 1/4 mi to Charleston, SC? The only track around here is an 1/8 mi. Thanks!
--Bryson

Hey! I finished tacking up the header...the guy is taking a little longer than I thought on the flanges, so I have to wait for the turbo flange and the wastegate flange until I can finish it. Anyway, I'm pretty excited about it. I think it will flow a lot better at all RPM, and also help sthe turbo spool a little quicker because it won't lose as much heat. I'll keep everyone posted!



--Bryson

Nice work Bryson!

PM for you.

Dan

That's some nice work on that header, looks very symetrical. Keep it up.

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A coward dies a thousand deaths..................A soldier dies but once.

Red 86 SE
Yellow 87 GT
Gold 86 SE (wrecked)
Red 84 2.5 Coupe

Nice work yes, but it's still not equal length. For turbo's it does make a difference.

Aaron

.

I know it's not equal length, and I am considering making another one after I have some money to play with and all of the big things are out of the way. At $24 per bend, I didn't want to try to make a new design and risk wasting bends. I would like to try and make an equal length header at some point in time and do two dyno runs back to back to see how the peak numbers and the shape of the graphs change. Now that I figured out how to make the merge collector, I just need to figure out how to make the stubs that go from the shape of the port to a 1 5/8" tube. Also, does anyone know if the exhaust port should be smaller than the header inlet? I know it is like that stock to prevent reversion, but it seems like it would just cause messed up airflow out of the port. I have gasket matched the roof, but I just got another 086 head and I was planning on porting this one much nicer than the other one. I will also look online and probably contact Burns stainless, but I was wondering if anyone here has any input. Thanks!
--Bryson

Howard Sacks has the link, but somewhere there's a thread about the difference between a log manifold and equal length headers for turbo apps. The company that did the comparison fabbed a log manifold to fit in the exact same space as their equal length manifold, so that they could swap manifolds while changing absolutely nothing else about the system. The equal length manifold was worht 40 or 50 HP over the log manifold on a turbo Honda engine making about the same power you are with the Quad.

I'd suggest that once you finish that manifold, make a jig of it, or at least a bracket that is located on both the header flange AND the turbo flange. That way you can make your new manifold and have it be a bolt in swap for your old one without changing anything else.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future