quote Originally posted by gt88norm: Beautifious Darth, thanks for being the 'sharing sort' I'm learning a lot again thank-you 1) Good news. 2) Very good news. And also drawings of the dog-bone mounts? Possibly some thoughts on thickness and taper for the shims to rotate the motor/tranny back on the cradle. Norm

To rotate the engine/trans back on the cradle all you need to do is space up the front mounts and use shorter mounts on the back. Also use a shorter dog-bone. I don't have a drawing of the dog bone mount YET but I have to take it off one last time to install the plug wires so I will get some good photos of it off the car. I used 1/4" thick steel plate for the mount and welded the pieces together. Also used a 10mmx1.50 tap so I didn't need to use nuts on the bolts (due to the proximity of the intake).

Also the rear (trunk side) mount?
Thank you

I just checked mine an I can get the oil filler cap off no problem. I will need a funnel with a goose neck on it to get in there but I can get the cap on and off no problem.

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

just so you know darth: you are the man.

quote Originally posted by The Adjuster: Rare W66 I have to say that the paint job is awesome and guys, the pics don't do it justice! yellowartero is going to have a heck of a time getting the body to look as good as the engine compartment, but I know the kind of work he does when it is a labor of love and I am confident that this will be no ordinary grocery getter which I think is what he ordered from Darth. So anyway Darth, how long before this thing is ready for a test drive? I'm ready!!!

Adjuster: Thanks for the compliment. I did start out to get a grocery getter with a little boost of power but a project just seems to take on a life of its own. It's just killing me to watch this go together without me, but I know the car is in good hands and will be done right. The costs are going up, but it's going to be worth it.

Darth, here is a picture of the oil filler from the '90 prototype. You can see it quite clearly. Hope it gives you some ideas. With the engine looking so good, that dirty back window driving me nuts!

yea, in that picture you can tell the engine is tilted back somewhat away from the firewall. Besides that from the looks of it that oil cap might even be in a slightly different place than where it is on your engine. Fred and I had suspected the intake in the prototype looked rather flat in relation to the car, yours does not. besides engine/trans mounting, there is another way to tilt the engine back, you can lower the rear of the cradle by inserting some spacers between the rear cradle mounts and the body. However, I don't want to do this with your car since everything is sitting in there PERFECT! I, myself can't believe how well this project is turning out.

Hey John, do you have any more of those engine pics from the 90 prototype laying around you could post? I think it would be a great comparison tool. Oh and don't worry about the oil fill, you can get a funnel in there no problem I just had to move the wiring a little so you could get the cap in and out, thats the only reason why I did it.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 05-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by YellowArtero:

Is it just me or is that valve cover totally different than current stock valve covers?

Roy

Yellow artero...yeah the dirty back windshield, the dirty floors, the dusty interior, yeah, the car pretty much needs a good cleaning...but don't worry, I'd never let a car leave Darth's garage looking this bad to return to an owner...I've been picking up some pretty cool and quick detailing techniques lately and might just have to have a go at your car. Darth is great at what he does, which is to say he's the best at mechanical and making it work, but making it pretty isn't his strong suit so I am glad you went with W66 for the painting! Sorry 'bout the cost though, not much can be done about it...sometimes parts just have to be replaced.

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: Is it just me or is that valve cover totally different than current stock valve covers? Roy

no it isn't just you. from the looks of it the oil filler cap looks to sit closer to the intake than on all production 3.4 DOHC engines. Now the reason why the front valve cover in the picture looks so different than the one I used in the swap is because starting in 1994, GM used a cam sensor for the SFI fuel delivery. The 94-up covers had to be designed to clear the cam sensor. The crate motor I am using is designed to be compatible with the 1995 stuff.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 05-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: no it isn't just you. from the looks of it the oil filler cap looks to sit closer to the intake than on all production 3.4 DOHC engines. Now the reason why the front valve cover in the picture looks so different than the one I used in the swap is because starting in 1994, GM used a cam sensor for the SFI fuel delivery. The 94-up covers had to be designed to clear the cam sensor. The crate motor I am using is designed to be compatible with the 1995 stuff.

So Darth, do the early (91-93) valve covers sit lower than the later versions? And, if so, can I retrofit my 95 with one to gain more clearance? As I mentioned before, I'm converting to a 93 harnes and ECM.

Roy

Here is a picture I took of the '90 from the side. You can clearly see the tilt of the engine.

Here's another one from a different angle. I like the look of the air box on this one.

Adjuster, the very least I will do to the car is to strip it, clean and paint the frame, paint the panels off the car and reinstall, put in new carpets, new dash, new seats, new quarter windows, and then add 17" wheels. That's the easy part for me.

[This message has been edited by YellowArtero (edited 05-28-2004).]

YellowArtero :

What's that oval aperture above and towards the front of the car from the air-box on the proto?

Here's a better picture of it.

I think it could be the air intake. At first I though the '90 brough air from the sides but this air box all seems to be one piece so it could draw cool air through the vent.

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: So Darth, do the early (91-93) valve covers sit lower than the later versions? And, if so, can I retrofit my 95 with one to gain more clearance? As I mentioned before, I'm converting to a 93 harnes and ECM. Roy

The height of the cover isn't any different, just maybe the placement of the oil fill cap. I have the older style valve cover around somewhere I will take a look at it.

I know you cant use the early ones on the 96+ motors, not sure of the 94-95.

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88 TTop coupe (CJB #95), 96 3.4DOHC/5 speed in progress

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

bringin 'er back to the top.....

Darth,

What was the correct GM part number for the 9 11/16" clutch disc used?
( I believe you thought an 83-84 Camero 2.8 would work)

Did the Lumina pressure plate #10192271 work out OK re: push vs. pull application?

What throwout bearing are you using?

Thanks...!

Your documentaion has been a model for other engine swaps...

another good BUMP to put this where she belongs!

The '90 prototype had functional sidescoops behind the sail panels on both sides. There was a duct built into the underside of the decklid that carried the air from the passenger side scoop over to the driver's side, and the duct connected to the oval hole in the air box with a gasket:

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by Kerry: Darth, What was the correct GM part number for the 9 11/16" clutch disc used? ( I believe you thought an 83-84 Camero 2.8 would work) Did the Lumina pressure plate #10192271 work out OK re: push vs. pull application? What throwout bearing are you using? Thanks...! Your documentaion has been a model for other engine swaps...

Kerry, the 9 11/16" 83-84 2.8L camaro clutch disc will work and is still available. HOWEVER the bad news is there is no stock replacement 9 11/16" pressure plate available anymore. The pull-type lumina unit will not work either. I ended up using a stock replacement Luk clutch for the 86 Fiero. It should hold up fine to this engine. I guess WCF or someone is selling a 9 11/16" clutch kit for the Fiero but I hear it a lot more expensive than the $90 I paid for the Luk clutch kit.

wow, i read this entire thread last night and im impressed!! I'll be doing this swap in a month or so and I found this quite useful. Thanks! *bump*

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REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!

www.geocities.com/j_depies

gotta keep this one on the top!

heck yeah! all this info makes me wanna start my own swap, and follow in the dark lord's footsteps! LOL

someone earlier said they wanted to see more pics of the dog-bone bracket I made that bolts to the stock lift hook bracket on the engine side. well, here they are:

Got the plug wires on and hidden very nicely, and the fuel rail cover came today. The one I got did not fit this engine as it is different than the original (we ordered it for a different year engine), but it looks a LOT BETTER than the original. I had to make an aluminum bracket so it would bolt to the fuel rails on this engine but it turned out very nice. The EGR is on and all the vacuum lines are done. All that is left is A/C, install the belt, make an induction system, finish the exhaust, and wire up the ECM inside the car.

you never stop working do you? you come back fromt he dells and work work work!!

Anyhow, I just picked up my donor car today, 95 Monte Carlo Z34 with the auto tranny. I have a 93 ECM with a manual chip in it. Are I going to have any problems wiring that up?

If I paid you would you make me a dogbone mount like the one that you fabricated? What did you do for an idler? What do you plan on doing for ac, if anything???

I hope to have this swap done rather quickly and I need a little help getting there.

Thanks for any info/help!

Jeff

That looks great, Darth It looks like a factory install

Please?.......a picture of the trunk side mounting of the dogbone

Norm

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: Anyhow, I just picked up my donor car today, 95 Monte Carlo Z34 with the auto tranny. I have a 93 ECM with a manual chip in it. Are I going to have any problems wiring that up? If I paid you would you make me a dogbone mount like the one that you fabricated? What did you do for an idler? What do you plan on doing for ac, if anything??? Jeff

You shouldn't have any trouble wiring up the 93 ECM to the 95 Engine. As far as the dog-bone mount sorry I don't really have any time to be making them for mail-order but I might in the future. Right now I have a 3800 Series II N/A swap into an 85 2m6 and a 3800 Series II SC swap into an 88 Buick Park Avenue waiting on me which makes my schedule very tight. As far as the idler go back a page or two on this thread and I have instructions and pictures on what to do. The A/C is going to work in this car, in fact I just got the A/C compressor mounted and will be taking the lines in to get made tomorrow.

Detailed pictures of where your dogbone bracket mounts on the engine would be appreciated. Thanks for the help! -Jeff

Continued on the ECM wiring tonight, it is nearly done. All that remains is hooking the ECM up to the fan relay, clutch switch, and a/c pressure sensor (which will be mounted in the front compartment). A special note about the VSS wiring, I have been getting several questions about how to hook the 3.4 DOHC 16149396 ECM up to the stock Fiero VSS. You can leave the stock Fiero VSS sensor hooked directly to the speedo and just splice in the 3.4 ECM. HOWEVER, the wiring colors for the 3.4 ECM's VSS are backwards, so if you hook yellow to yellow and purple to purple the speedo will not work. You need to hook yellow to purple and purple to yellow and it should work fine (with a custom chip of course).

When I built my car I used lines from an '87-'88 coupe and they worked great as is.

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Alan Frazier
'86 GT-'92 3.4 TDC 5 speed(sold)
'84 2m4 project car
'88 Silver coupe, auto For Sale

quote Originally posted by neverendingproject: When I built my car I used lines from an '87-'88 coupe and they worked great as is.

Same here, just had to get new seals AND I did have to bevel the manifold mounting hole to clear the mount stud base on the compressor so that the manifold would seat completely

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 06-09-2004).]

so a few question that i have had recently on this swap are this:

1. When i dissconnect a/c do i have to worry aobut anything special???
2. Should i just gut the power steering pump and put it in or make an idler setup?
3. How exactly does darths dogbone mount to the engine?
4. Will a spec Stage II clutch hold this power reliably?
5. When im wiring the harnesses together how am i gonna know that the wires are the right length or should i not worry about that?
6. Why does the computer need to know the speed of the car? If i dont want a custom ship burned right away am i going to be okay without it?

Another question that i have is does anyone know hte easiest way to remove the engine from a monte carlo?

Anyhow, next week i start ripping into this project like a bum through a dumpster, so if anyone wants to help out let me know

quote Originally posted by Erik: Same here, just had to get new seals AND I did have to bevel the manifold mounting hole to clear the mount stud base on the compressor so that the manifold would seat completely

can't use the 87-88 4cyl coupe lines they either hit the firewall (heater lines) or if i reclock the compressor they will interfere with the oil filter.

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: Another question that i have is does anyone know hte easiest way to remove the engine from a monte carlo?

Remove the fans and radiator
Remove the RS fuse panel and computer with witing and lay them on top of the motor.
Unhoock bulkhead wiring connector.
unplug A/C pressure switch, battery, and chassis ground from the RS fuse panel.
Remove throttle and curise control cable
cut fuel lines
unplug vacuum lines from behind intake along the firewall
through the RF frnder well, remove the coupling bolt that connected the steering column to the steering rack.
support motor from the top.
remove the four bolts holding the engine cradle to the chassis and lower the whole assembly to the ground.

Roy

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: can't use the 87-88 4cyl coupe lines they either hit the firewall (heater lines) or if i reclock the compressor they will interfere with the oil filter.

I do remember bending the heater lines a little and also enlarging the hole for the mounting bolt like Eric said. Nothing major.

Yellow Artero, well Darth left to go get your ac lines made in Indiana I'm stuck back here in Iowa taking finals, YUCK! If we get some good weather ( I think it is supposed to be nice on Sat) I will try to clean up your interior a bit, I don't want to mess with the exterior until the hood is back on the car...I'm a little paranoid of messing up the pretty paint job that Rare w66 did, so you are still going to have to put up with the dirty back windshield for now (sorry). Anyway Darth was talking to me about having this thing running next week but then again we have to go home to Indiana once again next weekend for my family reunion! I'm sorry I keep dragging him away... forgive me? Anyway, it really is looking great, I hope my 3800 Series II swap will look a quarter as good when Darth can get to it, but my project just keeps getting shoved to the bottom of the list, but that's ok, I don't pay him very well (one of the perks of living with him)!!!
--Just a side note, Sorry you and your lovely wife couldn't make it to the Dells this year, we had a blast go-karting in the rain! Good luck with your upcoming move!!!