I have noticed that in my 84' service manual, it shows the 3rd, and 4th gear on the output shaft as two separate gears. After looking at my 86' 3.65 gears, the 3rd and 4th on the output shaft are one piece.
Does anyone have pictures of the economy gears? Does anyone have an economy tranny in good, unknown, or busted condition? I have found one at my local yard, but the 2nd gear is bad, or at least the synchro is.
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11:06 PM
PFF
System Bot
Nov 20th, 2004
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
I have noticed that in my 84' service manual, it shows the 3rd, and 4th gear on the output shaft as two separate gears. After looking at my 86' 3.65 gears, the 3rd and 4th on the output shaft are one piece.
Does anyone have pictures of the economy gears? Does anyone have an economy tranny in good, unknown, or busted condition? I have found one at my local yard, but the 2nd gear is bad, or at least the synchro is.
I am working on the same exact project, with the same exact engine. My v6 tranny is from an 82 citation x-11 though, which has the same exact gearing as the fiero counterpart. my econo tranny is from an 84 fiero, and has low miles on it...I will be watching yrou thread very closely .. glad to see im not going at this alone.. if you want to chat about it and consult with me sometime.. feel free: aaronrus@earthlink.net
[This message has been edited by aaronrus (edited 11-20-2004).]
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12:18 AM
collinwestphal Member
Posts: 698 From: Waukesha, WI, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Dont Sandblast a transmission when all the holes arent plugged!
I didnt have the gears in, but there are lots of nooks and crannys where the sand gets in, and its hard to get out. Can't imagine sands too good grinding through your gears. Live and learn. As long as you learn from your mistakes, your making progress.
I'm excited to hear I'm not alone too! When you gonna pull your econo apart? If its soon, I want pics of the gears! I will probably still get that one down at the junkyard, since they are so hard to find. They want $150, but if I shouw them that the 2nd gear is bad, they will probably lower it some. I have plenty of 2nd gear parts!
As far as swapping the gears go, this is what I have seen so far.
The easiest way would be to swap the entire input, and output shaft from the econo trans in, as well as the differential assembly.
I was going to try and get the 1st gear from a v6 on the econo output shaft, but its a lot of work without the proper tools. Its the absolute last gear on the shaft. So everything else has to come off to change it. The difference in gearing is so small, I think I'll just forget it, unless I have to replace the 2nd gear or synchros anyway.
With that said, I think this will be a lot easier than I had previously thought, as long as you have good econo gears to start out with.
Let me know any progress you make. Do you have a shim selector kit? Did I sell you one? I just sold one a few weeks ago.
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01:14 AM
Rhino88gt Member
Posts: 718 From: Maumelle, AR Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by collinwestphal: I'm excited to hear I'm not alone too! When you gonna pull your econo apart? If its soon, I want pics of the gears! As far as swapping the gears go, this is what I have seen so far.
The easiest way would be to swap the entire input, and output shaft from the econo trans in, as well as the differential assembly.
Let me know any progress you make. Do you have a shim selector kit? Did I sell you one? I just sold one a few weeks ago.
am I gonna need a shim selector kit? neither tranny has differential noise, the v6 tranny was recently rebuilt, and the econo tranny has 67k miles on it.. i will take many many pics.. im starting on the project this week.. waccording to my rebuild instructions, 3rd and 4th gears should be easily removeable from the input and output shafts, and same goes for the differenatial ring gear
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03:30 AM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
do you know what the transmission code is on the tag thats on the case?? I think I know of one near my home but the car has no rpo sticker.
The 2 ratios listed for the 4 speed are 3:32 and 4:10. " They all can be ID'ed by either a plate on the side of the case, a stamping number on the governor case or an ink stamp on the bell housing". The MD9 is PF, the MY8 (econo) is either NA or DJ and the M19 (4:10) is UM or DW.
teh number you are looking for will be in the form:
614_DWM, or soemhting liek that.. 6 digits total.. the example i justgave you is from a 4.10:! geared 4 speed, not an econo tranny.. the econo tranny would have NA or DJ , NOT DW
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03:37 AM
collinwestphal Member
Posts: 698 From: Waukesha, WI, USA Registered: Jun 2003
I am another crazy attempting something similar. I am building a hybrid trans using the late V6 Fiero case and gears, with the 3.32 FDR from an '81 X-11 trans. My main reason for doing this is to gain more top speed out of 2nd gear for autocross. The trans in going behind a 3400 SC engine in an '84 X-11, so the taller gearing will also help traction coming out of the corners.
I am going to use the input shaft and 1st/2nd gears from the 3.65 trans, along with the output shaft and 3rd/4th gears from the 3.32 trans. I have access to a press to get the output shaft apart (the input shaft can be taken apart by hand), and I will be replacing all bearings and seals in the process. I have some pictures to post once I get PIP reinstalled.
Well, I finally got the gears pressed off the output shafts. The bad news is the two shafts are different, so the 3rd and 4th gears are not interchangable. The early 2-piece gears have the shaft spline for each gear. The later 1-piece gear uses one big spline for the gear assembly.
When I dismantled the shaft from the 3.32 trans, there was some slop beween the shaft and 4th gear. Due to this slop I wanted to use the 1-piece 3rd-4th gears from the 3.65 trans on the 3.32 output shaft. Since this will not work, it looks like I am going to use the input shaft, 1st and 2nd gear from the 3.65 trans, with the output shaft, 3rd and 4th gears from the 3.32 trans (my original plan).
Here are some pics of the shafts (late shaft on the left, early shaft on the right): and gears:
[This message has been edited by RacerX11 (edited 01-15-2005).]
Just a note, the output shafts are assembled differently. The early shaft has a plastic oil slinger pressed into the end, which can be pried out with a screwdriver. Once this is removed, the bearing and gears can be pressed off. The later shaft has a steel cap that is threaded into the end of the shaft, with LEFT-HAND THREADS. This cap must be removed before the bearing and gears can be pressed off. The inside of the cap has a 12-point hex that takes a T-60 Torx bit to remove. Unfortunately, the last person to assemble this trans had rounded off the hex portion, so I had to weld some 3/8" square tubing to the cap to facilitate its removal.
Here's a shot showing the two shaft ends. The left one is the later shaft with the screw-in cap, the right is the early shaft with the plastic oil slinger.
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05:37 PM
collinwestphal Member
Posts: 698 From: Waukesha, WI, USA Registered: Jun 2003
well, at least we finally know something about this swap idea. I have halted my gear swap, while I get my car ready for spring! I missed most of last summer due to downtime, not this year!
