Ahhh yes the popular muffler topic. Well here goes. Yes I done a search on the forums about the different mufflers and saw mixed reviews. Im down to two choices, Flowmaster or Magnaflow. Im used to Flowmasters because I had them on my Mustangs and my Cadillac Eldorado N*s and I liked them. I also hear that Magnaflow makes a straight through design as Flows are chambered. I only need the mufflers as I am making my own exhaust. Where do I just get the mufflers at to fit the Fiero. I know WCF sells the Flow but its over $100 and thats not with shipping. Jegs has them for $80.00 and they have Magnaflows for $90.00. Do i get one for a F body to fit my car? IF so what year F body do I use? Thanks
-Dale-

I know the 88 Firebird uses the one in two out flowmaster, have one on mine.

the one from WCF is already modified to fit in the stock location... if you get a stock flowmaster you will have to notch the muffler...anyways who "needs" mufflers anyways

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'86 Fiero GT
My Fiero XoticRydz Mid-Rear Madness
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread
Be Excellent To Each Other" - Bill S. Preston Esquire Ted Theadore Logan

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: I know the 88 Firebird uses the one in two out flowmaster, have one on mine.

This is not a Firebird motor, it is the Twin Dual Cam motor found in 91-97 W-bodies.

Anyways, Magnaflow all the way. Flowmasters are the worst mufflers made, they belong on redneck trucks that want to sound liek a 60s carbed V8 and nothing else. No V6 should have one, and they defiantely won't help performance IN ANY VEHICLE. I honestly belive my factory mufflers will make more power.

Anyways, from personnel experience, the Magnaflow is a very good sounding muffler. It is quiet, smooth, yet powerful. Plus the Magnaflow somehow eliminates the mid RPM rasp that every 3.4L TDC has. No other muffler I have ever put on a 3.4 has done this before, I was pretty shocked.

Hope this helps!

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1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed For Sale, modified(high 13s), or stock
14.78 @ 92.68
1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
Stock, new crate engine and trannsmission
3.4L TDC V6, getting built to about 430hp at 8000rpm for a 88GT

Im going with Magnaflow. Got the crossflow one for my certain application. Got this muffler for 109.63 shipped. Not a bad price. Thanks for the help guys

[This message has been edited by ETC/GT (edited 02-15-2005).]

Whereabouts in Ohio do you live, I live in hamilton over by cincinnati... Anyways, I've always wanted to hear a 3.4 DOHC in person, but don't know anyone that has one, Since you are in Ohio, maybe once you get the new muffler installed, i could check it out?

Thats not a problem Cooguy. When I get it done, Ill let you know. BTW I live near Ironton Ohio about 2 hours fron CIncy. It wouoldnt bother me to drive a little for you to see my car once its done. ROAD TRIP

[This message has been edited by ETC/GT (edited 02-15-2005).]

Do not get a magnaflow... I have one on my 3.4tdc, sounds like **** . Its loud and very raspy. Sounds like I'm running a couple ricer tips, because its essentially the same design.

Its way to loud, like annoy the neighbours loud. My next muffler will be a flowmaster camaro muffler. Single in dual out. Someone else here with a 3.4tdc said it sounded awesome. Or I will be trying west coast's muffler.

my setup is actually a 9" long 2.5" cat split into two 2.25" glass pack mufflers that are 4"x12"

we'll see how it sounds once it fire it up with the cams adjusted

quote Originally posted by crzyone: Do not get a magnaflow... I have one on my 3.4tdc, sounds like **** . Its loud and very raspy. Sounds like I'm running a couple ricer tips, because its essentially the same design. Its way to loud, like annoy the neighbours loud. My next muffler will be a flowmaster camaro muffler. Single in dual out. Someone else here with a 3.4tdc said it sounded awesome. Or I will be trying west coast's muffler.

Did you ever go back to stock timing to see if the sound changed at all? I remember you asking about the sound of your car compared to one with stock timing and folks on the 60* V6 forum agreed that it sounded a lot different due to the cam timing, not necessarily just the muffler.

-Steven

That is a good question. I'm not even sure if changing the cam timing even makes a difference. Thats why I asked. Plus I was asking guys that have no idea what a 3.4 sounds like in a fiero anyways.

Its a great flowing muffler, but it is raspy. I plan on completely redoing my exhaust system anyways. Going to get some headers made and route the exhaust out the back instead of how the fiero is setup. I have no trunk so it makes more sense to do it this way anyways.

I've got a magnaflow on mine (part # 11365, 4" x 9" for 2 1/4 inch pipes, fits nicely in the stock location) but it is waaaay too loud. Almost like running no muffler, AND I have a cat on there as well.

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com
Visit the NC Fieros website at TarheelFieros.org

I disagree with the Magnaflow being raspy, but my Z34 system is a bit different than that of a Fiero's. Flowmasters sound like crap on a 3.4L TDC, even with a full system like that in the Luminas, and in a Fiero it will be even worse. Take my word for it, they are terrible mufflers. I am the 'performance exhaust technician' at a local shop, so I put Flowmasters on all day long. I have learned to hate them, I haven't heard a single car that I really like them on. They even manage to make a 8.0L truck sound like a 80s carb'd Ford F250.

As for the Magnaflow, I also have a Magnaflow resonator and I have dual straight through Magnaflow mufflers. When I do my Fiero project, I'll be running a true dual system with Magnaflows, but no resonators. The resonator causes it to be a bit smoother and less raspy, but the reason for it being loud on the Fiero is probably the short system. The 3,4L TDC is naturally a raspy motor, very few exhaust systems will eliminate the 2000-3500 rpm rasp. With my Magnaflow system, it was gone. I hope you aren't too worried about the sound when you add headers, the motor sounds TERRIBLE with headers. It is good once you get above 4,000 and lay on it, and its loud, but below that daily driving, it rasps like crazy. Headers have a unique ability to make any motor sound like crap, except for most V8s, where the borexstroke of all 8 cylinders helps even it out. Poorly designed headers that are not made specifically for your engine and car will generally sound better, but you know a good set of equal length tuned headers when it is raspy as hell on the low end.

The headers I'll be making will hopefully run the way Cryzone explained, back towards the trunk, over the tranny, and then down.

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1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed For Sale, modified(high 13s), or stock
14.78 @ 92.68
1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
Stock, new crate engine and trannsmission
3.4L TDC V6, getting built to about 430hp at 8000rpm for a 88GT

You build them and I'll let you send me a pair to see if they fit nicely. I won't even charge you

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: This is not a Firebird motor, it is the Twin Dual Cam motor found in 91-97 W-bodies.

Stop being an a$$ Aaron. Dale asked if an F-body muffler would fit, and Dodgerunner confirmed that an '88 Firebird Flowmaster has the correct single in, dual outlet design for a Fiero. He wasn't trying to disgrace your sacred Twin Dual Cam.

Marty

I have a single flowmaster deltaflow 40 on my grand prix with the DOHC. It is very raspy and loud, but with a small resonator it turns into an awesome sound. I couldn't be happier with how my car sounds right now, but the resonator is a must. I will be running the same muffler on my fiero most likely.

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Ben
www.60degreev6.com

I have a Dynomax Ultra Flo welded 2.5 on my 3.4DOHC Fiero. I like how it sounds and its straigth thru.

Dre

There is another choise. Spintech offers several sizes in the corect configuration, in both mild steel and 304 stainless. The sound on a 2.8 is similar to a flowmaster, but smoother through out the rpm range. I’m sure I’ll use one on my 3.4 dtc

good thread; I wish people would put actual MODEL No's in when they make a recommendation, tho. I see a lot of mufflers that look similar but have slight variations in lengths, pipe sizes, offsets, etc, so a mfr's name alone isn't that much help. I saw a different (glasspack appearing) muffler in a very recent 3.4 build thread but can't remember whose. Simple 'tube style', single in, single out; short. Looked nice.

A question regarding any of these, tho: are they all internally stainless (ie metal only) or are some glass packs? I have the distinct impression that glasspacks are A) plain steel only; and B) not very durable for the long term.

Too bad; I am sure the 'raspy' sound of the tdc or dohc is mostly due to its almost completely exposed exh valves (you can look inside the exh ports and see 'everything') - so all that mechanical noise is not absorbed by the mass of the head or block assy.
And the short fiero system wouldn't help alleviate that.
So a glass pack would probably help with that except for the reliability issue.
just 2 cents...

The Spintech is not a glasspack, but a rather inovative reflective design. The phone number to Spintech tech support is 1-888-550 7746. Their stainless units are ALL 304 construction, and the price for stainless is 1.85% of the mild steel price. This is one company that sells them. I used model #SPT.311SC in my first prototype. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/gofast/spintech.html Or type spintech muffler at your search engine.

I apologise for the vagueness.

Thanks for the info! I am going to check into it. And the comment about model numbers was just a broad brush comment; all I ever see in swaps etc threads is 'Flowmaster' or 'Magnaflow' or just some mfr's name; I have been paying attention to mufflers for a bit now cause I will have to decide soon too.
Good to see there is an option.
thx
gp

Well like I said Ive always used Flowmasters on all of my cars (V8 cars that is). 40 series Delta Flow on a Caddy N* sounds exotic. On my first N* I used Dynomax super turbo. I liked it but it was very mellow and quiet so I switched to Flowmaster with stock pipe, a little too loud for my family ride. On my last N*, I used 3 inch pipe from the manifold back and used the Flowmaster mufflers. I was also mellow and throaty but sounded bada$$ when I opened her up (loved that setup). At 2000rpm (60mph) it was very mellow and had a low growl. But were talking about V6s here not V8s. My buddy has a Firebird with the 3.8 and has a American Thunder system on it. At idle it sounds like a V8 but if he gets on it, it sounds like crap to me. But then again were talking about 3.8 PS and 3.4DOHC motors. So maybe the DOHC will mellow out the exhaust note. But I wanted something different so Im trying Magnaflow. If I dont like it, Ill take it off immediately and go with the tried and true to me Flowmaster. Has anybody heard these motors with the import 'fart mufflers' before? How do those sound? Not that Ill use one, just curious

well Dale;
I'll be pretty interested in your impressions; you have bought one so make sure you post the results and what you think.
Of course, everyone wants a different sound etc anyway; that is where sound clips come in handy. I heard/found some last yr on PFF I think and THAT was the best thing, but I can't seem to find them anymore.

Were all those others (ie v8's) in Fiero transplants? I would think the N* would be pretty similar, being a 4 valve and (I assume) will have the same unshrouded valve situation as the 3.4tdc, so would be 'noisier' than ie a 2 valve motor. There is simply more 'passageway' for the sound to get out......
So if they worked on a N* in a fiero with its very short exh system then that muffler should be a good choice.
Keep us posted.
GP

These were in their respected cars. This is my first swap in a Fiero. This is actually what I consider my first Fiero even though I owned an 86 GT in High School but I never done anything with it and sold it after about 2 months of owning it. I wasnt aware of the things to do with these cars until about two years ago when I was interested in getting another one and accidentally stumbled on to this site. WHAT A GREAT SITE THIS FORUM IS. It seems almost everyone will go out of their way to help you in some way, Ive especially got to mention Matt Jackson, I have called his house and asked questions before and have never met him. Back on topic.

[This message has been edited by ETC/GT (edited 02-16-2005).]

The whole subject of exaust is a really big one. Only recently have people started to realize the complex phyisic involved in designing a system that actualy produces noticable perfomance increases. The racing world now uses seriuos computer software to otimise there exhaust systems, but simply exepting that you can’t break the laws of physics, is a nice place to start your design. Some facinating stuff can be found on the subject by really serching the web for info on the subject.

The sound is affected by many things. By just experimenting with different exit tip shapes and sizes, I’ve found some very surprising results.

quote Originally posted by Yellow-88: The whole subject of exaust is a really big one. Only recently have people started to realize the complex phyisic involved in designing a system that actualy produces noticable perfomance increases. The racing world now uses seriuos computer software to otimise there exhaust systems, but simply exepting that you can’t break the laws of physics, is a nice place to start your design. Some facinating stuff can be found on the subject by really serching the web for info on the subject. The sound is affected by many things. By just experimenting with different exit tip shapes and sizes, I’ve found some very surprising results.

yeah, that is so true; EXH is maybe the least understood tuning/performance possibility we have now. And all those so-called equal length and tuned header claims just confuse the issue. They are so specific to the individual setup.
I hope to work on a set of real (or at least CLOSE to) equal length headers once my swap is done and running as well as possible. For starters I am just using a pair of 'log' exhausts for convenience and space. The big stumbling block will be space (3.4tdc stuffed into small area..) and the weird exh port shape of the 92. It doesn't help but that is the way it is. Then see if it is at all possible to fab a sequential header system AND have (maybe?) TRUE equal lengths. Boy... there's a space management challenge!
But one thing at a time.

A TRUE header system for a Fiero is a project I’ve had in the computer for over 2 years now. There’s not a lot of room in the engine bay, but being able to model it in the computer is a huge help. I’m about 80% finale on the design for a 2.8, and see little additional problems with the DOHC. The 60 deg. V6 firing order, and the transverse layout is perfectly suited to a tri-Y design, so that’s where I going.

If anyone else is interested in a TRUE tuned exhaust system for the Fiero, I’d like to hear from you as an extra incentive to continue this difficult project.

How are you going to make a tri Y with a V6? I have read that tri y is a gimmick and falls short of a 3 primary to 1 collector per bank setup on a V6. Just curious why you are going with a tri y, and how thats possible since it comes from V8s that have 4 pipes per bank, then 2 pairs, and those pairs are then paired to a collector.

quote Originally posted by fiero308: Of course, everyone wants a different sound etc anyway; that is where sound clips come in handy. GP

This above is, in a nutshell, what I was going to say. Exhaust sound is one of those things that depends greatly on individual taste. People bashing Flowmasters should remember that the sound of them being bad is your opinion and not necassarily gospel truth. A friend of mine had a Flowmaster on his built up 3.2 pushrod V6 in his Fiero and the sound was excellent in my opinion. To others it was to loud or even to quiet. Just depended on the individuals taste.
As far as performance is concerned; Flowmasters have certainly proven their worth on the dynos.
Definitely an interesting thread. I have no idea what muffler i'd chose if I do the TDC swap.
Anyone using the stock Fiero exhaust with this swap? Just curious because, if the stock exhaust fits with the TDC swap, a Fiero Borla exhaust could be used. They tend to be fairly quiet, have a million mile warrenty, are 2.5, mandrel bends, and are stainless.

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A single header for a 3-liter V6 optimized for about 3000 rpm (lets be honest here), would require 6 tubes 1.25” in diameter, and 35” long. Fitting that into a Fiero engine bay is……..not fun. I tried.

The Tri-Y is not a gimmick. A tri-Y on a V6 works the same as on any other engine. Essentially, it converts a 6 cylinder running at 3000 rpm into a 3 cylinder at 6000 rpm.

A 60 deg. V6 fires 1-2-3-4-5-6, front bank, rear bank, front bank, rear bank….so the 2 primary collectors carry pulses 180 out of phase. The secondary tubes receive pulses at twice the frequency as the primaries. A tri-y is basically 2 sets of headers. It fits in the Fiero engine bay rather nicely.

really? I was reading in regards to the V8s and headers, and you either have 2 pairs that are paired again on each side, or you run 4 into 1, and run true dual. For the 3.4 DOHC, I would still run 3 into 1, then after the collectors, run a length of tube that connect for 1 larger final exhaust tubing.

On a stock Fiero the Y pipe we call the crossover pipe, would become the secondary pipes of a Tri-Y header. Those 2 pipes would be tuned just like you would for a 2-cylinder engine running at twice the rpm of the 6 cylinder. At that point, he primary collectors can almost be thought of as the exhaust ports of a 2-cylinder engine.

(I errored earlier when I said, “Converts 6 into 3 cylinder”. Its 6 into a 2 cylinder running at twice the rpm of the 6.)

For those who have not heard my car. This is what my magnaflow 2.5" inlet 2.5" dual outlets sounds like. It sounds pretty deep and rumbly at low rpms, and doesn't sound bad on the way up under power. But as soon ad you engine brake, it rasps and sounds pretty bad and very loud. I've basically stopped engine braking since I have this exhaust setup.

http://home.mchsi.com/~houseofsakowitz/frstrt.wmv

As far as performance mufflers go, this one is great. Its a straight through design (which is why its so damn loud) and its stainless so it should last a long time.

Edit to add, you can see my exhaust setup in my build thread
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/053341.html

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 02-16-2005).]

Glasspacks and a 355 muffler.

I have the exhaust that fiero308 described, with the glasspack. It is shitty, and loud, but then again its temperary. Its burblyraspy as all hell starting at like 2500 rpm and going till 4000 where it starts to sing. Neighbors hate it, but i really havent been bother by the cops about it, as long as i keep it under 2500 rpm shes quiet. Been pulled over when it was on there, nothing was mentioned. Oh well. My friend heard me comming from like 1.5 miles away once, thats some good stuff. Anyhow, its like maybe 3" long at the most, comes out the stock manifolds and then goes into 2" shitty non-mandrel bends through a shorter glasspack out the non-tipped tip. Really primitive, but begging to be replaced, which it should be, soon, headers, crossover, and full mandrel 2.5 inch exhaust with a cat and resonator tips only.

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REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!

3.4 DOHC Motor Swap-14.7 in the 1/4 mile with no hook-up, crumby exhaust and automatic chip.
Better exhaust, chip, cam retarding, and driver to come... I'm feeling lucky!
www.geocities.com/j_depies

Yellow-88, I'd be interseted in a TRUE tuned exhaust system for the Fiero. I am redoing my intake system this spring and hope to do the exhaust after that. I've been leaning towards the WCF headers & 2.5" system.

I'm thinking of building some good flowing less restrictive non tuned headers. If I do decide to put my turbo on this motor, tuned headers won't do me much good. A nice pair of shorty headers like the 3800sc ones should be perfect. Anything would be better than the heavy restrictive stock manifolds.

i know this isn't on a 3.4TDC runnign yet - but mine is based off of LilDevil's 3800sc exhaust

these glasspacks
http://www.fle-online.com/OtherProducts/OTHGlasspacks/glasspacks2.htm

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/046591.html

it really is quite - even when he gets on it I could here the SC whine over the exhaust at the drag strip (outside the car)

oh and here is a little vid clip of a 3.4TDC with no cat - only glasspacks http://www.cosineaudio.com/fiero/tdcfiero.AVI
(turn the volume down to like 10% or it distorts, my camera was too close to the exhaust)

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 02-17-2005).]