Ok, I know this suspension thing has been discussed a LOT lately... so, if this has been answered in another thread, I appologize!
Anyway... I've always heard that drop spindles in the front, is the "correct" way of lowering. I've also heard that the lowering springs change the suspension geometry & cause more bumpsteer, etc. My question is this: Is the difference really THAT noticable on the street? I mean, I will put my car through some hard corners, but I don't race for a living. The drop spindles seem to be a bit rich for my blood. I'm only looking for a 1" - 1.5" drop.
there are a TON of people driving around with lowering springs or cut springs and only a few with drop spindles spindles are better, but nothing wrong with springs
you now also have the option of rodney dickmans 1" drop ball joint
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09:57 AM
Ken_86gt Member
Posts: 574 From: WILLIAMSBURG Registered: Jan 2004
A downside to drop spindles that isn't mentioned very often is the increase weight. The drop spindles usually add unsprung weight to the car, which may hurt the performace. Don't forget the cost$ of the drop spindles.
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11:35 AM
SaLvAgEd Member
Posts: 973 From: Knoxville, IA Registered: Mar 2004
This is all sounding great, guys... Keep the replies coming! Another question: do the lowering springs cause excessive tire wear? Or, is there a chamber correction kit that can be installed?
I used to have Eibach springs up front, supposed to be a 1-1.5" drop, I swapped these out for Street dreams 2" lowered spindles and standard length springs, it was one of the best things I did. Looks great and no bad effects, the ride is actually better with the standard springs and I cannot detect any handling difference although I do not race around much. I would not change the springs, either go with lowered spindles or Rodneys lowered balljoints.
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07:10 PM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15197 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
A downside to drop spindles that isn't mentioned very often is the increase weight. The drop spindles usually add unsprung weight to the car, which may hurt the performace. Don't forget the cost$ of the drop spindles.
Get the aluminium ones. They weigh 8lbs for the PAIR.
Drop Springs reduce the suspension travel up front. A *stock* Fiero already has very little front suspension travel. I refuse to use lowering springs for this reason.
Drop Springs reduce the suspension travel up front. A *stock* Fiero already has very little front suspension travel. I refuse to use lowering springs for this reason.
suspension travel on the fiero is limited by the fenders - any form of lowering will reduce this but I understand not wanting to use lower springs for the sake of keeping the suspension geometry in its sweet spot.
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-16-2005).]
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07:13 AM
PFF
System Bot
Will Member
Posts: 14250 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by Kohburn: suspension travel on the fiero is limited by the fenders - any form of lowering will reduce this but I understand not wanting to use lower springs for the sake of keeping the suspension geometry in its sweet spot.
A plastic fender won't limit jack when you hit a hard bump. Check the bump stop pads on the lower control arms... Are they shiny? If so, you really don't want to go with lowering springs...
A plastic fender won't limit jack when you hit a hard bump. Check the bump stop pads on the lower control arms... Are they shiny? If so, you really don't want to go with lowering springs...
lol - you know what I'm talking about, they limit how far you want to allow the wheel to travel.. I doubt you run drop spindles so that when you hit a big enough bump your tire and rip the plastic fender off the body and drive over it. modifying the height of the bump stops to stop the tire from hitting the fender isn't that difficult.
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08:02 AM
olaf_fiero27 Member
Posts: 967 From: winnipeg,manitoba,Canada Registered: Oct 2004
This is not an attempt to bash anyone or anything, but rather a blinking “yellow” light. In doing a quick geometry plot of the “drop ball joint” I discovered some alarming changes in the “BASICS”. The drop ball joint changes the angle relationship between the upper and lower A-arms. Anything that causes a DRAMATIC change in instant center location, as this does, is something to take a very serious look at. This is what I found so far.
The stock 88 front end exhibits .5 deg of negative camber change at 5 deg roll. With the drop ball joint, it becomes 1.75 deg negative at 5 deg roll. The roll center of the stock system is 5” above the ground, and becomes 7” with the drop ball joints. My BIG concern when seeing such numbers is the effect on the bump steer characteristics.
If anyone has the time and ability to do some real bump steer measurements on the drop ball joint conversion, it would be valuable info indeed.
This is not an attempt to bash anyone or anything, but rather a blinking “yellow” light. In doing a quick geometry plot of the “drop ball joint” I discovered some alarming changes in the “BASICS”. The drop ball joint changes the angle relationship between the upper and lower A-arms. Anything that causes a DRAMATIC change in instant center location, as this does, is something to take a very serious look at. This is what I found so far.
The stock 88 front end exhibits .5 deg of negative camber change at 5 deg roll. With the drop ball joint, it becomes 1.75 deg negative at 5 deg roll. The roll center of the stock system is 5” above the ground, and becomes 7” with the drop ball joints. My BIG concern when seeing such numbers is the effect on the bump steer characteristics.
If anyone has the time and ability to do some real bump steer measurements on the drop ball joint conversion, it would be valuable info indeed.
the drop balljoint doesn't change the angle of the line between the inboard pivot and the joint though it does seem to increase its distance slightly.. it has roughly the same affect as cutting out the spring perch on the lower arm and welding it back in lower on the arm
the front end geometry with the 1" drop joint is the same as with 1" lowering springs just with a softer spring
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-16-2005).]
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01:25 PM
PFF
System Bot
Yellow-88 Member
Posts: 819 From: Coventry CT. Registered: Feb 2005
the drop balljoint doesn't change the angle of the line between the inboard pivot and the joint though it does seem to increase its distance slightly.. it has roughly the same affect as cutting out the spring perch on the lower arm and welding it back in lower on the arm
the front end geometry with the 1" drop joint is the same as with 1" lowering springs just with a softer spring
I beg to differ. The drop ball joint changes the angle RELATIONSHIP between the upper and lower A-arms, and that is a basic design parameter.
I beg to differ. The drop ball joint changes the angle RELATIONSHIP between the upper and lower A-arms, and that is a basic design parameter.
Shorter springs DO NOT change that relationship.
it changed the angle from the stock arm- but the only way to change the relationship is to increase the distance between the upper and lower balljoints - which this does NOT do
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02:03 PM
Yellow-88 Member
Posts: 819 From: Coventry CT. Registered: Feb 2005
it changed the angle from the stock arm- but the only way to change the relationship is to increase the distance between the upper and lower balljoints - which this does NOT do
Oh geeze..Doh...!! PLEASE accept my deepest apologys. I drew the plot wrong.
I have Springs off an 88 4 cyl on my Formula that have been cut 1 coil and I also have the 1" drop ball joints. I have cut the bump stops 3/4" and have 1 1/4" of travel. Which if you measure a stock Formula setup is very close to original travel. I also adjusted for the sway bar endlink. The guy that does my alignments had no trouble with it and the ride and handling is great. If you read my post on my front end rebuild and the post where I added the drop ball joints you will find this is not the only setup I have had. It is in fact the 3rd front end setup I have tried on the car and by far the best to date. I hear talk, but I have the setup and it works great.
I do not believe there is any question as to drop spindles being the ideal way to go. But to most they are not affordable, and there is an issue with the ones that are available fitting correctly. While I am aware there are some who have them and have had no problems there are others who have installed them and have had several serious issues. Personally I am satisfied with $0.00 dollars to remove 1 coil from the springs and $70.00 for the drop ball joints. I have close to a 2" drop and can assure you along with the other upgrades I have done on the frontend that my handling is greatly improved. After all that is the goal is it not? If I found the things I had done to my car made the handling worse then I definatly would have a problem with it !! Bottom line is if done correctly and one does there homework all the methods mentioned in this post work and are exceptable. Thank you for the time, if anyone has any questions as always feel free to Email me.
[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 03-17-2005).]
You completely missed what I was saying Kohburn...
- quality drop spindles are made for 84-87 but not for 88
- 84-87 doesn't have a large wheel well gap, so they really don't need it
- 88 has a large wheel well gap due to redesigned suspension, it really needs it
Point being..... the car that needs it most didn't get it.
Maybe in the future it will be available.
i didn't miss a thing
I don't see how #1 is a point at all.. yes someone makes a drop spindle for the 84-87, because it needs it just as much as the 88 BUT 84-87 makes up the majority of the fieros on the road so it has a larger target audience as well as people complaning about the poor performance of the pre-88 fieros are more likely to upgrade.
#2 and #3 are the same - I addressed.. the fenders are the same, the tires are the same.. unless the car is riding higher in the air the wheel gap is the same..
I have no idea where you got the idea that the gap around the wheel is larger in 88s than pre-88's - in my opinion the car that really needs drop spindles is the one whose suspension geometry is compromised the most by other methods like lowering springs
If you can explain how 88's have a larger gap I'd love to learn something new
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10:57 AM
KissMySSFiero Member
Posts: 5543 From: Tarpon Springs, FL USA Registered: Nov 2000
