Today, I was talking with a mechanic at a local garage. He had been working on a 98 Isuzu Trooper with the 2.8 V6. He said that by all outward appearances, it was the same engine as in the Fiero and that most of the 90's Troopers used that engine. Even the starter was on the correct side. Does anyone have any knowledge of this engine as a possible replacement?

Isuzu is partially/totally? owned by GM, so it is a good possibility. But with so many engines out there, is it worth the potential problems you might have to use an Isuzu engine? The FWD 2.8 is extremely common.

PS. I found a site where a Trooper owner says he swaped a 95 Camaro 3.4 for his stock 2.8, so that sounds like the 2.8 is the same as the Fiero.
PPS. Are you sure about the year? GM quit using the 2.8 long before 98.

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: Isuzu is partially/totally? owned by GM, so it is a good possibility. But with so many engines out there, is it worth the potential problems you might have to use an Isuzu engine? The FWD 2.8 is extremely common. PS. I found a site where a Trooper owner says he swaped a 95 Camaro 3.4 for his stock 2.8, so that sounds like the 2.8 is the same as the Fiero. PPS. Are you sure about the year? GM quit using the 2.8 long before 98.

I thought he said it was a 98. Might have been an earlier model. My thoughts about it is that it would be a newer block, and should have been constructed with newer technology in the area of the crankshaft, rods and pistons, and oil galley. He also said that the transmission had the same pattern as the T125.

Does this mean the new V8 or V6 trooper motor will bolt in the Fiero?????? I might be wrong but I believe there is a V8 one

The 89 2.8 Berettas were a DIS motor. So it might be a distrubuterless ignition system motor if they were just sticking whatever GM gave them to put in the Troopers. I could be wrong though...

I know the 80's Troopers had the GM built 2.8 V6's in them. But I would have thought they were the same as the Chevy Blazer or S10 engine, being they were rear wheel drive design. Which would mean the starter would be on the wrong side , right?

I am not from the USA but it`s true they hade the same engine block and heads .

quote Originally posted by Ronnie: I know the 80's Troopers had the GM built 2.8 V6's in them. But I would have thought they were the same as the Chevy Blazer or S10 engine, being they were rear wheel drive design. Which would mean the starter would be on the wrong side , right?

He's familiar with the Fiero engine, and the first point he made was that the starter was on the same side. He's familiar with the other compatible engines and the need to relocate the starter. Apparently this is either a front wheel drive engine used as a rear-wheel drive, or they built the engine for rear wheel with the starter on the opposite side. If it isn't a left-over engine block, it should be better designed.

F355: That might be an interesting transplant. Shane said that the Isuzu was bolted to a bigger tranny than the T125, but still had the same bellhousing. I think he said it was a T400. If that's true, doesn't the GM V8 use that tranny?

Dgzfiero: My 88 Beretta also had the DIS engine, but it had a plug that could be removed to install a distributor. I might be wront, but I believe that engine had aluminum heads, so the Fiero top end wouldn't transplant.

Torch: Which are you referring to as having the same block and heads? The 80's or the 90's Isuzu 2.8's?

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Dgzfiero: My 88 Beretta also had the DIS engine, but it had a plug that could be removed to install a distributor. I might be wront, but I believe that engine had aluminum heads, so the Fiero top end wouldn't transplant.

I think you're right. That wasn't a car I ever had the hood open much on.

I have sold more than a few 3.4 drill jigs to these guys.

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PLEASE NOTE MY NEW ADDRESS

Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
(262) 835-9575

www.rodneydickman.com

I have been looking into the new trooper V6 they are a 3.5 DOHC from what I have seen no V8 but if they are using the same trany this has my attention. I have to find out about this.
OK I just found this and noticed the 3.5 will bolt up and I found a picture of the back of the motor and the starter is on the same side I cut this out just incase anyone wants to read it I also noticed the trooper guys are putting Cadillac motors in there 2.8 and 3.1 spots but the 3.2 and 3.5 DOHC are trying to swap beefier transmissions.
The Jeep/Dodge AX15 5-speed, the Jeep NV3550 5-speed, the Toyota R150F & R151F, the 87-92 Toyota Supra Turbo R154, the Isuzu AR5 and the Chevy Colorado\ GMC Canyon MA5 5-speeds all share the same case to bellhousing bolt pattern. As such there are a number of possibilities that can be had when a 5-speed is desired:

Pic 1 #1. Novak Enterprises: Adapter plate for AX15 to GM 4-speed bellhousing. Connects all except NV3550 to same.

#2. 94-95 Dakota 2.5L bellhousing: Connects all to any K car based 2.2L-2.5L L4 in a RWD application.

#3. 96-00 Dakota 2.5L bellhousing: Connects all to any Jeep 2.5L L4. Because of it's GM 60 degree V6 inherited bolt pattern, also works with any Buick FWD V6 and supercharged V6, any Chevrolet 2.8/3.1/3.4 V6, any Cadillac 4.1/4.5/4.9 V8 and with a minor modification, any Olds Aurora DOHC V8 and Cadillac DOHC Northstar V8. Also bolts to any Isuzu 3.2\3.5 DOHC V6.

#4. 88-99 Jeep 4.0L L6 bellhousing: Connects all to any AMC 290/304/343/360/390/401 V8 and any 72 and later 232 L6 and 258 L6.

#5. 94-99 Dakota 3.9L V6 Bellhousing: Connects all to any 3.9L V6 and any 273/318/340/360 V8.

#6. 96-04 Toyota Tacoma 3.4L V6. Also works with Toyota 3.0L V6

#7. 86.5-92 Toyota Supra Turbo 7M-GTE. Also works with Toyota 5M-GE.

Not shown:

01-03 Jeep Liberty 3.7L V6 bellhousing: Connects all to any 3.7L V6, 4.7L V8 and 5.7L Hemi V8.

Isuzu Trooper 3.5 V6 AR5 bellhousing: Connects all to any Isuzu 3.2\3.5 V6

04 Chevy Colorado\ GMC Canyon MA5 bellhousing: Connects all to any 2.8L L4, 3.5L L5 and 4.2L L6

88-95 Toyota Landcruiser: 1L, 2L and 2L-T Turbo Diesel truck bellhousing connects to R series transmissions.

[This message has been edited by F355spider (edited 01-01-2005).]

F355: Information overload. Wow! I'm going to look into the HP rating of the 3.5, and the dimensions. If they're looking for beefier transmissions, then they must be putting out a lot of horses. Maybe more than the 3800's. At this time, I'm guessing there have been no Isuzu transplants.

Yeah. That caught my eye, too. A quick Google search leads me to believe that the 3.2 (SOHC?) makes 205 HP and the 3.5 makes 250.
I wonder if these are GM engines.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.
Read Nealz Nuze!

I'm going to try to get some measurements on the 3.5 DOHC this week I like the look of the engine but not sure how wide it is also I want to find out about the coast of it verses the GM 3.4 DOHC I wonder if they are close to the same engine. I have a lot of research to look in to but I did pull the SBC and sold it so I have a cradle and five speed waiting for a new motor.

I wouldn't be surprised if either of them has the same castings as 3.4 DOHC GM motor.
FWIW, from what I was able to read when poking around on a few of the Isuzu forums, the 3.2 was available as a SOHC and a DOHC (don't know if that's true or not). If the 3.5 DOHC is too wide, a SOHC 3.2 might be worth considering.
This is all based upon the premise that they'll actually bolt up to our trannies, of course. Obviously, I'm just speculating about all of this. I know nothing about these engines.

Raydar, it looks like they might be, using this info from F355.

"the Isuzu AR5 and the Chevy Colorado\ GMC Canyon MA5 5-speeds all share the same case to bellhousing bolt pattern."

If not, maybe Archie's adapters might make the connection. Rodney's posts surely indicates the Isuzu engines will mount to the Fiero transmissions.

F355: If you don't find a V8, I know where there's a 95 Buick 3800SC sitting on the Buick cradle without tranny or harness for $200.

Fierofool, I had a V8 but did not like it after I went to all the trouble so I sold the SBC and will sell the V8 Archie kit. I do not want to cut the car like I had to on the V8 car. I am looking for a more exotic sound than the SBC being my car looks like a Ferrari. My V8 sounded like a dump truck and not an exotic. The 2.8 in my car sounds better than the V8 did but lacks the power to turn the massive meats in the rear. I have been considering the 3.4DOHC but just thinking the 3.5DOHC would be different and there is that being the first factor. 3800SC are awesome but just not what I'm looking for. I also have a goal of 30MPG. The sweet thing about the Fiero is we have a lot of choices for motor swaps and every one can find the one they like best and they are all better than stock.

This is a really interesting thread. I've seen several of these Isuzus around here with the 3.2DOHC emblem on the back. The 1990 Fiero prototype is said to have had a 3.2DOHC engine. Has anyone seen this Isuzu 3.2DOHC and does it actually look like the Fiero prototype engine or the 3.4TDC??

Isn't the 3.5DOHC an Oldsmobile engine? I think it was in the Caddy Catera as well. I've read that it is based on the Northstar and is slated to replace the 3800 in GMs lineup. Anyone know for sure?

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-Rick Stewart
85GT 4.9V8/Isuzu 5-spd in progress...

quote Originally posted by F355spider: .... My V8 sounded like a dump truck and not an exotic. The 2.8 in my car sounds better than the V8 did ....

Sad you had that experience. There are V8s out there and then some V8's. I have to say very few sound nice and most sound like cherry bomb mufflered. Maybe your exhaust was not properly designed. I bet if you hear mine you will change your mind

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

GT
Probably one of the keys to the answer would be the transmission the engine's bolted to. The only information I had is that the Isuzu 2.8 was identical to the Fiero 2.8, even had the left side starter. If it's easily adaptable, it would be cheap horsepower and plentiful.

As for the 90 prototype, I believe they only made an 89 prototype. The one at the 20th anniversary had a 3400 if I recall correctly. I have been told of the whereabouts of an 89 prototype chassis that had a very hot 2.8 in it and also had a different manual transmission than the standard Getrag.

Check out this link.
http://automotiverebuilder.com/ar/ar90037.htm

It specifically mentions the Isuzu use of the left side starter. Doesn't say a thing about the DOHCs, though.

While I was cruising around looking for info on S10 2.8 engines, I stumbled upon some info regarding the Isuzu 2.8. Yes, it is a GM engine. Although the starter goes on the same side as a FWD engine, I think it uses a RWD bellhousing (people are swapping in Camaro 3.4 engines). It also has TBI instead of MPFI.

* edited for accuracy *

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 02-25-2005).]

F355 spider - I'm not sure what you mean about "new" Trooper.

The Isuzu Trooper was discontinued in 2002. In fact, the Rodeo, Rodeo Sport, Axiom, Pickup and VehiCROSS were all discontinued. Isuzu of America sold their interest in the plant in Indiana to Subaru and no longer manufactures any cars in America. The only vehicle they sell is the Ascender which is just a rebadged Chevy Trailblazer.

However, the Trooper did have a 3.5L V6 from 99 to 2002. And the Rodeos up to 2004, (when they were discontinued) had a 3.2 DOHC V6 that was very nice. I know because I have one under the hood of my Rodeo. It moves a two ton vehicle pretty quick, I bet a Fiero would fly with that engine. As for the transmission, Troopers and Rodeos are rear/4WD vehicles. The trannies are useless for Fiero purposes.

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1988 GT (Firebird Interior),1988 Fastback (4.9 Chop-top #1 of 1), 1984 Indy...Firebird Interior Installation Website

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-25-2005).]

The garage that told me about this said that the 2.8's used the same bellhousing pattern as the 125 transmissions used in the Fiero. Even though it's a rear wheel drive, he said it would bolt to a Fiero transmission. That was what made me wonder if the other Isuzu engines used a GM FWD pattern. Surely they make an automatic in each model Isuzu SUV. The answer might be in Raydar's post. I haven't had time to digest it, yet. Only gave it a cursory glance, last night. If the Isuzu engines will bolt to 4T60's, etc, then the only problems should be wiring and possibly clearance.

Jscott1, what transmission do you have? Does it appear the bolt patterns compare to the Fiero?

quote Originally posted by fierofool: As for the 90 prototype, I believe they only made an 89 prototype. The one at the 20th anniversary had a 3400 if I recall correctly. I have been told of the whereabouts of an 89 prototype chassis that had a very hot 2.8 in it and also had a different manual transmission than the standard Getrag.

The one at the 20th was a 1990 prototype and has a 3.2 DOHC that was very similar to the production 3.4 DOHC.

The 3.5L that is in the Trooper could be similar to the 3.5L that was used in the Olds Intrigue and Olds Aurora 3.5.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Jscott1, what transmission do you have? Does it appear the bolt patterns compare to the Fiero?

I have a 5 speed manual. It was too dark for me to see it last night and it's raining too hard today to look. I'm not sure I can recognize a fiero bolt pattern just from looking anyway. But the discovery of a 3.2L and 3.5L DOHC that bolt to Fiero transmissions would be a major find.

Well, I saw this;

quote 96-99 Dakota 2.5L bellhousing: Connects all to any Jeep 2.5L L4. Because of it's GM inherited 60 degree bolt pattern, also works with any Buick FWD V6 and supercharged V6, any Chevrolet 2.8/3.1/3.4 V6, any Cadillac 4.1/4.5/4.9 V8 and with a minor modification, any Olds Aurora DOHC V8 and Cadillac DOHC Northstar V8. [\QUOTE] and did some digging, came up with this; [QUOTE] Note: The 96-99 Dakota 2.5L and Jeep 2.5L bellhousings will also bolt up to the Isuzu 3.2/3.5 V6.

So the answer is YES! We have more engine options!

(Took a lot of digging to find that)

-Dan

EDIT - Because I can't type today!

[This message has been edited by Shadow_Wolf (edited 02-26-2005).]

Is that Isuzu 3.5 an aluminum block?
Norm

quote Originally posted by gt88norm: Is that Isuzu 3.5 an aluminum block? Norm

I can't find the answer but it has to be.... I did find out that the 3.5L V6 was an option for the 2004 Rodeo rated at 250 hp. There should be some floating around in the junk yards I would hope. Who is going to do the first Isuzu engine? You could mate it to the (Fiero) Isuzu tranny and have an interesting combo.

Here is a trans out of a trooper

Here is a trans out of a 3.2 rodeo

Does that bellhousing bolt pattern look familar

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 02-27-2005).]

Sound cool, great info.

El bumpo!

I just found this site that sells engines for Isuzu, Action Salvage, and they list the 2.8 and 3.1 engines as GM V6 and the 3.1 is broken down into driver's side starter and passenger's side starter...

Ewww... I just found this site as well... hopefully if these engines do fit these issues represent the extreme minority...Isuzu Engine Failures

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88 Fiero GT Auto
01 Prizm 5 Spd.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 02-27-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Erik: if the 3.5 is the same form factor as the 3.2 then it should have the same bolt pattern. I wonder if its a 90 degree or 60. Im pretty certain it is all aluminum

That sure looks like a 60 degree engine to me!

Edit - That intake looks a little tall, any thoughts on that?

[This message has been edited by Shadow_Wolf (edited 02-27-2005).]

The Isuzu 3.2 & 3.5 series engines are *not* GM engines. They are pure Isuzu.

They also have a dual bellhousing bolt pattern in the block. One of those patterns is the standard "small" / 60 deg V6 GM bolt pattern. They will bolt to the same trannies that the 2.8/3800/4.9 will with the appropriated flexplate/tc/flywheel/clutch mods.

--Dan

[This message has been edited by houlster (edited 05-25-2005).]

Has anybody bothered to check the prices on these engines? Kind of pricey compared to american engines. By the way the Honda Passport is a direct interchange for the 3.2 used in the Isuzu Rodeo

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Notchies rule, fastbacks drool

[This message has been edited by jsmorter1 (edited 05-25-2005).]

A good engine might be picked up from a salvage yard at a reasonable price. If it was a direct fit, it should be a considerable savings with a decent horsepower gain. It is another option without needing to send the vehicle out to someone else to have the conversion done. It should much easier for the average mechanic to install as opposed to the 4.9's or 3800SC's.

quote Originally posted by jsmorter1: Has anybody bothered to check the prices on these engines? Kind of pricey compared to american engines.

Yes, they are that. They are all AL though, and the 3.2/3.5 DOHC motors have a bolt-on supercharger option as well from Alpine (though it is only an M62).

Let me put it this way, I have an Amigo that had a 4 cyl and swapped in an '02 3800SC rather than a 3.2/3.5. This was easily twice the work or more and with all the "extras" (Lightning M112, custom adapter/IC/water injection plate) cost was about the same either way. But, for that money, I have a motor now with twice the potential of the 3.2/3.5.

--Dan