quote Originally posted by Miss-Tress007: BTW---I managed to get the oil cover off and drained the oil (which was chocolate milk color and full of water),

Hmmm, if the car ran for any length of time with water in the oil, your bearings might be shot... I hope they survived, but from all reports, the antifreeze does a number on them pretty fast.

At a minimum you'll need to change your oil two or three times. Once immedately before starting the engine, once after starting the engine and letting it idle for a couple of minutes, and once again after starting the engine and letting it idle for another five or so minutes. This is to push all the water out of the various oil passages in the block.

One thing to do at this point is to examine the cylinder walls for anything looking like a crack. It will look like a sharp-edged line that runs vertically, in the direction the piston turns. Use a socket on the crank bolt, and only turn the engine in the direction that it normally turns when running. Since the valvetrain is non-adjustable you don't have to worry about timing the engine upon reassembly, so turning it now won't mess anything up. If you see anything suspicous take pics and post them here.

JazzMan

i had the same problem, bought mine and 3 weeks later i was replacing both head gaskets/ cat/ tune up/ seals/ gaskets/ heater core/ fuel filter/ ig modual/ and the list goes on, my car also sat 10 years, a 2.8 is alot harder to work on than a 2.5 (just my opion) ive had it 3 months now and the list still grows!! these things require alot of TLC! especally when they sit along time.

Regarding the oil filter-- Its called an oil filter wrench. Several varieties are available at your friendly autoparts store. Most of us have had the opportunity to buy all of this stuff over a period of years. You seem to be doing it in one week. Good luck.

The 88 2.5 cyl has an internal oil filter. There is no such thing as an oil filter wrench for it. A 15/16 1/2 drive socket on a breaker bar should be able to remove the cover. The filter is up inside the oil pan and will pull straight down with a little coaxing. Sometimes I pry a little bit around the edge with a flat bladed screw driver just to get it moving.

Got the oil filter out--with a little coaxing. The car hadn't run too long with water in the oil because the water pump hadn't been working. All heck broke loose once we changed the water pump and water actually started flowing the way it was supposed to. At that point, we only ran the car for a total of maybe 5 minutes all together since the new pump has been working.

Just got the call from the repair shop--$145 to rework/recondition the head. It's not cracked, but it's warped and needs to be redone. Add another $12.50 for some seal/part that he needs to do the job and after tax it's $171.68 all together. It'll take about a day to do. He says after this I can just take the head and reinstall it and the engine will work fine.

Is that a good price? I don't want to get screwed over, but I also want it done right. He was recommended by the same dude (PFF buddy) who installed my water pump. I'm supposed to call him back and let him know if I want him to start on the job.

Input/advice?

--Tress

should have got the head gasket set. would have gotton ya all the gaskets to replace the head along with the valve guide seals. would be cheaper in the long run. if you haven't opened the gaskets you all ready have take them back and get the set.

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88 coupe 4.9 Izusu 5-speed Rockcrawl chip. True duels.No A/C .KYB GR-2 on all 4 corners Built to run.

Sounds like a fair price to me...about 10 times less than what I paid to have my heads done. I say go for it.

Ya know, it just occurred to me... you're never going to get rid of the overheating problem until you rename the car... something like "Iceberg". Of course then the A/C will go out on you.

------------------
-Rick Stewart
85GT 4.9V8/Isuzu 5-spd in progress...

GT, I thought of that, but I'd already decided on the name before I bought the car! hehe It was supposed to be a "Hottie" because of its great paint job, rims, etc., etc. I guess I wasn't specific enough. Oh well. LOL

Well, after finally downloading and sorting through the 100 or so pics that we took during this process, here's a visual of what we found once we took the head off.

This is the first thing that I saw once we pulled it out. My first reaction was "OMG, I'm sooo screwed!"

I admittedly don't know a lot about cars (I've actually taken the crash course over the past couple of weeks, lol), but I know that water is not supposed to be pooled in this part of the engine. That's definitely a bad thing.

Another view:

I soaked up the water with a shop towel, but you can still see the condensation near the push rods.

The exhaust manifold looked like it had been cooked--literally. I didn't find any trace of a gasket, so I don't know if it was burned off or if there just wasn't one installed in the first place.

There looks like there were remnants of charred pieces inside the pipes. I don't know where this came from, but I didn't like the looks of it.

---cont---

[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 04-12-2005).]

A little tip for you on checking the push rods if your not going to install new ones. Take them out one at a time, clean it up real well and roll it on a piece of glass larger that the rod. That will tell you for sure if any of them are bent. Push rods are not that expensive though so you might want to check into replacing them.

Also with that much anti freeze getting to your rod bearings, they are going to go next. Been there, done that, got the busted block in the back yard when a rod went through it. While your this far into it you may give serious thought to replacing those as well or your just going to loose the bottom end of the motor in very short order.

Ain't owning a Fiero fun??? LOL

Good luck

[This message has been edited by paulcal (edited 04-12-2005).]

Oh, just thought I'd mention it---we didn't have any antifreeze in the car the entire time it was overheating, just water. We added one gallon of the 50/50 antifreeze/water mix right after we installed the water pump and then added more water after that. So hopefully that helped a little. (At least I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it helped. LOL)

Paulcal--what do you mean by the "bottom" part of the engine? And what's a "rod bearing"? (Sorry about the stupid questions, but I had to ask, 'cause I don't know. )

(At this point, I'm thinking that I'll be close to a complete rebuild by the time I'm done.)

--Tress

[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 04-12-2005).]

the "bottom end" is the block and associated parts, specifically the crankshaft, main bearings and journals, connecting rods and rod bearings. all accessible by removing the oil pan.

Here's an example of what a failed rod bearing looks like. The area that the bearing is in is what connects to the crank shaft. I don't have a pic of the bottom end of a motor but Jazzman probably does.

[This message has been edited by paulcal (edited 04-12-2005).]

You're doing fine so far...I can't believe how rust free your Louisianna car is. How many miles are on that engine by the way?

Things to rejoice about...

1.) You actually got the head off without breaking any of the exhaust manifold bolts.
2.) Your head can be saved.
3.) You got your oil & filter out. (how much water was in there when it drained?)

Your engine should be nice & quiet with a new exhaust manifold gasket. You can be nervous for a while about the bottom end. Watch the oil pressure at idle. Listen for strange noises, especially when you let your foot off the gas. (the "death rattle") Maybe you will get lucky. I had the same thing happen to my son's Sunfire a couple years ago. I changed his blown head gasket and he has put another 70,000 trouble-free miles on it since then. You are about due for a little good luck. We'll keep our fingers crossed.

------------------

It is recommended to replace your head bolts too, as these stretch and possibly could be bad too. Check the threads for necking (how to check them should be outlined in you Haynes/Chiltons manual). They are also cheap and you should be able to get them auto zone.. My only .02. -Jason

Hottie, All I can say is WOW! I will be getting that parts car Friday. Its a 4 banger so hopefully it has a good head on it. I'll take it off and take it to the machine shop and see what he says. By the way you might want to install new valve stem seals into it. It shouldn't cost too much, I'm thinking about $35 installed.

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: It is recommended to replace your head bolts too, as these stretch and possibly could be bad too. Check the threads for necking (how to check them should be outlined in you Haynes/Chiltons manual). They are also cheap and you should be able to get them auto zone.. My only .02. -Jason

Jason,
Already on it. I bought a new set of head bolts when I got the gasket.

Thanks for the advice tho!

--Tress

Wow, great job!!! There is a great sense of accomplishment that comes from working on one’s own vehicle. I recently changed out my 5-speed Isuzu, from my 88 coupe, with one of slightly more agressive gearing. If it wasn’t for the members of PFF and its archives, I don’t think I would have succeeded.

Anyways, I don’t believe your exhaust manifold is “cooked.” From the pictures, it only looks like exhaust soot. Did the duke use a gasket on both side of the heat shied? I took my heat shield off a long time ago, so I can’t exactly remember. Hopefully, someone will chime in.

You seem to have a good bit of patience. How about a basic port and polish job, since you already have your head off? People often say it’s a free mod, but fail to mention that you will need some sort of rotary tool, grinding and polishing bits/P&P kit, and gaskets. So far we know you have the gaskets, and already have the head off, so… I know a lot of people will say it’s not worth it on a duke, but that’s entirely up to you and you’ve already done the hard work by removing the head. Just a word of caution though, you can destroy your head in the process. If you do decide to give it a shot, do a good bit of research first. Check out the archives for some good write-ups. Also, you may want to ask your machinist for a junked head (preferably metal, since yours it too) that he may want to give away for free, so that you can practice on. Here is the ever popular DIY P&P site: http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.shtm

This may take away some of my creditability, but I have never done a basic P&P job. The cost of the porting kit and gaskets, not to mention my duke is running great has kept me from giving it a go. Also, I planed on picking up a head from a 91-93 Chevy Lumina IIRC. It is rumored to be aluminum.

Anyways, great job and good luck

The exhaust manifold gasket if I remember right should be on the manifold side of the shield not the head side. In fact I think the shield has the words "gasket this side" stamped into it above the center port. It's meant to be read from the manifold side.

Dave

[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 04-13-2005).]

Jazzman mentioned you may need an exhaust manifold. I have one still on the engine - rather cheap if you need it.

Actually, I mentioned that in the mall so that Miss-Tress007 could get dibbs on it. I do need one myself for a car I'm going to eventually get back on the road.

JazzMan

Quick question....

I just picked up the reworked head for my car and am about to reinstall it. I have the new head gasket, but I don't know which side goes up. I have a Felpro head gasket and one side has blue stripes and the other side is just all grey. Which way do I put it down and do I need any sealant?

Oh, another question. I'm replacing the gaskets on the exhaust and intake manifolds too. Do I use any sealant on either of those and should I attach them to the head or to the manifolds?

Thanks.

--Tress

---edit---
I posted this in a new thread to make sure people would see it.

[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 04-27-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Miss-Tress007: --cont-- Here's a part of the cylinder (is that the right term?) that looks like it was partially burned: Now for closeup pics of the head that I removed. As I mentioned earlier, the guy at the shop said that it's not cracked (great news) but it is warped and needs to be redone. This part looks partially clogged. This is where the exhaust manifold connected. There was definitely some cookin' going on in here! Another part: Here's an undershot view. I lifted it up and took a quick pic until I could make sure that the stuff on the top wouldn't fall off if I turned it on the side. Here's the other side of the head (away from the thermostat housing): --cont--

Looking good soo far but a little caution note. Never lay removed heads gasket side down on the concrete.... It can damage the gasket surface causes sealing problems.... The machine shop usually cleans that surface good and checks for scratches or necks anyway soo your fine.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 04-27-2005).]

Wouldn't you know it... now I am needing this too. Thanks Miss-tress for the writeup!
John DuRette
Custom 85 ; 87 Coupe in the driveway. "Kinda makes you nostalgic for a Members Only jacket"

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 07-03-2005).]

PLEASE MISS TRESS, POST AN UPDATE!!

Yes, I know I was shouting

quote Originally posted by jscott1: PLEASE MISS TRESS, POST AN UPDATE!! Yes, I know I was shouting

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said.

I think she got tired of some of the mean comments some were making. I miss reading her posts.

She's gone. She didn't care for the crap and stopped posting. Bumping every thread of hers isn't going to bring her back.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Bumping every thread of hers isn't going to bring her back.

Oh well, it was worth a try. I do really miss those informative posts.

Yeah, me too. I really enjoyed reading her threads because her enthusiasm for Fieros came through in her writing. But, if anyone said anything nice to her, they were accused of leghumping and too many mean spirited posts.... I can't say I blame her for leaving.

I had heard she had left. I have been pretty busy lately and haven't been on the forum too much so I missed what went on. But I glanced through some of the threads saying why she left.

It's pretty sad that someone with her enthusiasm and enjoyment for Fieros, is run off because of some idiotic comments by a few idiotic members. From what I see, a few people commented that they didn't like her "diary" threads and made some pretty harsh comments. Wow...how sad.

If you don't like reading something, it's pretty darn simple. Don't read it. And don't make comments that may hurt someone just because you may not like it.

You know, there is a forum I used to go to for a while that talked about Tivo programming. The "guru's" on that forum would make 90% of the people who post here go running for there mommies, including the idiots talked about above. I tolerated them over there because I needed to learn how to reprogram my Tivo. Did I get what I wanted?...yes. Did I enjoy it?..Hell no. Do I go there now?...Nope.
But this is a forum about something I enjoy. That most of us enjoy. One that Miss Tress enjoyed. And for a few members who obviously find enjoyment in either pissing people off or making others cry, is pitiful and sad.

Miss Tress did 2 things wrong (if you could say that). One, she showed too much enthusiasm, and two she was a woman. Both of these things brought the attention and spotlight directly onto her, which also brought the negative comments from the real attention whores who couldn't stand having to compete against someone else.

Miss Tress, if you read this, please come back and post with your usual enthusiasm and vigor. Most of us miss it, and hope you come back and do not worry about the few idiots who obviously do not speak for the majority but are just more vocal.

To the people who think I am joining the "leg humpers"......I laugh.....that is so far from being true. I don't need to go there.

And to the members who know Tress.....let her know how we feel. And that those of us who may have lost our enthusiasm, need hers to reinvigorate our own.

[This message has been edited by slickrick2000 (edited 07-03-2005).]

yea she ssohuld come back ,

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: And to the members who know Tress.....let her know how we feel. And that those of us who may have lost our enthusiasm, need hers to reinvigorate our own.

I think this statement is what it is all about. New poeple come in all excited, reminding us of the way we felt many years back when we were new to the Fiero world. It helps bring back memories and enthusiasm.

Besides, most of the problem members now reside in Looserland.

quote Originally posted by Electrathon:most of the problem members now reside in Looserland.

here's the thing. If miss-tress is for real, and I have no reason to think that she is a 'fake' she has experienced a lot of people giving her a hard time at one time or another. I have a hard time believing she folds in real life as quick as she did here. So i suppose that she will return eventually.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: here's the thing. If miss-tress is for real, and I have no reason to think that she is a 'fake' she has experienced a lot of people giving her a hard time at one time or another. I have a hard time believing she folds in real life as quick as she did here. So i suppose that she will return eventually.

In my opinion, leaving he forum is not necessarily folding, but redirecting priorities. Why put up with the sort of behavior that some members dished out when there are so many other things that one can engage in to occupy their time? She could have decided that the issues that spring up on the internet are not worth her time. Afterall, this is just the internet, and some take it way too serious.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: I have a hard time believing she folds in real life as quick as she did here.

Of course...real life matters more than this place. This is just a freakin forum. I can't blame her for leaving. Come in all excited and people immediately give you crap. Why put up with it?