I'm in the midst of doing a custom interior on a car, and wanted to do away with the stock switches as much as I could. Was thinking of using a switch from 'this' car or 'that' car.... but why even do that?
So, I came up with and made these!
Push one for up, one for down! Plugs straight into the factory harness even...
Button styles are of course only limited by your vendor, and what you want to do! Heck, I even looked at (and never seriously even considered using!) some video game console switches. They're like 1.5" across and lit up!
------------------ 87/88 V6 5spd "FormulaGT" Turbo, 86 SE (custom body in progress)
tell ya what I want.. I want the one touch windows switches... have to use a rocker with a 3rd position to do it though.. and probably a potentiometer to adjust how long it keeps the voltage going to put the window down.
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07:38 AM
Fie Ro Member
Posts: 3735 From: Soest, The Netherlands Registered: Sep 2001
The relays are responsible for flipping the polarity of the current which is sent to the window motors. The same principle is used for the power lock actuators.
Each relay is a double-throw unit; the pole of each relay is connected to the window motor, the normally closed contacts are connected to either + or - 12v, and the normally open contacts are connected to the opposite polarity. At "rest", the pole of each relay is connected to the same polarity, and the window motors don't move.
Each push button is connected to a relay's coil. Pressing a button energizes the coil of one relay, which switches its pole to the normally open contact & completes the circuit to the window motor. Pressing the other button energizes the opposite relay, the net result being that the circuit is completed with the opposite polarity.
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10:46 AM
Snowcrash Member
Posts: 411 From: Sugar Land, TX Registered: Oct 2004
tell ya what I want.. I want the one touch windows switches... have to use a rocker with a 3rd position to do it though.. and probably a potentiometer to adjust how long it keeps the voltage going to put the window down.
I'm in the midst of doing a custom interior on a car, and wanted to do away with the stock switches as much as I could. Was thinking of using a switch from 'this' car or 'that' car.... but why even do that?
I Like Your Purdy Hands lol
------------------ "This car is so good looking its almost indecent. - AutoWeek on the new 1986 GT" Chilliwack Fieros MSN Messanger tylercaddick@hotmail.com
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11:36 AM
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by Sullivan: At least you used relays hard to beleive GM didnt
Yeah... one of the major gripes I've always had with most GM switches. They use them to pass fairly high current, then everyone wonders why "things" start to fail a few years later! At least this way, there's no contact bounce so the damage to the contacts is minimized. And when it does wear out? Whoopdeedo... a generic $5 relay vs a ($40+?) switch that will very well be discontinued in 10 years.
Not to mention - you can use a switch that only requires like 1 gram of force to operate instead of having to LEAN on it!
ZeroC: You can only see my thumb and index finger in that shot... let me show you a different one closer to the middle....
If anyone's too unmotivated to make there own, I might consider doing up a cheap kit.
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12:19 PM
Ken_86gt Member
Posts: 574 From: WILLIAMSBURG Registered: Jan 2004
I say sort of, because I had to yank out the switches. They all broke! Looks like Loctite 242 (regular blue thread locker) disolves, or at least weakens the plastic bodies. Grrrr.... so much for trying to make life better by not letting them vibrate loose!
Oh, needless to say, that console is only covered in foam. I'm still doing the cover. And yes, it's an automatic - and that's a fake gated shifter!
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11:57 PM
PFF
System Bot
Apr 26th, 2005
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
what about using some nice power transistors to handle the "switching" that the relays would normally do? that way you dont get a little *click* every time you press the button.
just a thought.... this is what i will be doing....
maybe i will post some schematics and a parts list soon in the future!
------------------ Brandon Edmonds
1996 Taurus SHO (my baby) 1986 Ford EXP (goin bye-bye soon hopefully) 1986 Fiero (to be my street rocket) 1977 yamaha xs750-2D (in pieces right now, doesnt appear that it will be done for summer, unfortunately)
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09:00 AM
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by Flyguyeddy: what about using some nice power transistors to handle the "switching" that the relays would normally do? that way you dont get a little *click* every time you press the button.
Since the relays are under the console, which is covered in foam, which is covered in vinyl... you don't really hear anything.
Besides, with the rumble of the 4.9 -- trust me - it's the LAST thing you'd hear!
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11:53 AM
mrossum Member
Posts: 804 From: lake havasu city, az Registered: Oct 2000
Originally posted by watts: If anyone's too unmotivated to make there own, I might consider doing up a cheap kit.
quote
Originally posted by mrossum: i'd be interested. how much???
Would you (or anyone else) want this to fit in the stock switch location? I've got an idea that I think will fit in there, making this almost a plug and play operation.
I could do it so you'd see either black plastic, or aluminum. My direct fit idea might not work (I'll have to play with it) if you have power mirrors.
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05:36 PM
Apr 28th, 2005
mrossum Member
Posts: 804 From: lake havasu city, az Registered: Oct 2000
Would you (or anyone else) want this to fit in the stock switch location? I've got an idea that I think will fit in there, making this almost a plug and play operation.
I could do it so you'd see either black plastic, or aluminum. My direct fit idea might not work (I'll have to play with it) if you have power mirrors.
stock location is fine. either black or alum works..................
------------------ 88 coupe 4 cyl, 5 speed, koni's with coil overs, lowered 3 inches, mr2 spoiler on decklid. e-mail ossum1@hotmail.com
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01:07 PM
May 6th, 2005
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
The relay idea is a good one. And yes, if any one cares it would work with the OE switches and would stop them burning up. Potentially it could be used to greatly extend the use of aging OE switches. Given that the OE switch lasts many years and is still available from Fiero Store and others, I'm not sure it's worth doing. With the relays you would use only one side of an OE switch.
What are the relays above rated in DC amps? The window motors can easily draw up around 10 amps. You want relays with at least twice the DC load rating of the motor. Notice I keep saying DC rating.... Did I mention DC rating? DC rating is much lower than the AC rating of most contacts. A relay that can handle 20 amps AC may only handle 5 amps DC. It's hard to explain why but DC is way harder on contacts than AC.
If you are using a relay that isn't rated for enough DC amps it won't last long.
Once you have relays.... you can use nearly any switch you want.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurasic Park)
I checked the specs of my switches : 2A/250V 4A/125V....does that mean 40A/12,5V? I planned to wire them directly, just want to know if they can handle the current.......? your relay solution is nice, will do that if my setup doesnt work.
just saw this and thought I would add a note; not a flame or anything but something to keep in mind. A couple of major car mfrs have been under a bit of fire in this past yr for their pwr window switches. They were of a design that allowed kids (ie really young) to lean out the window and then get their knee or foot or something on a pwr window controller that "PRESSED" it and made it go UP. They suffocated and died. There were a couple of instances but that is all it takes. There is no safety built into a pwr window; it tries to close; not like the sensor strip on a garage door etc that will 'cancel' the closing and make the door open again..
So from what I can tell the consensus was to go to a type of switch that had to be lifted etc to close the window. Anything but pressed; as that is what happens in a panic situation. I expect everyone will say but no kids will ever be in my car and so on......., but how about your ........'sister in laws' kids etc etc; or the person who buys your car from you. Somehow accidents happen and the ones with kids are the worst.
Anyway; it CAN be a concern and it has actually happened; so I thought I would put it out there. Keep it in mind. It only affects a switch selection. gp
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05:09 PM
May 8th, 2005
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by fiero308: They were of a design that allowed kids (ie really young) to lean out the window and then get their knee or foot or something on a pwr window controller that "PRESSED" it and made it go UP. They suffocated and died.
I expect everyone will say but no kids will ever be in my car and so on......., but how about your ........'sister in laws' kids etc etc; or the person who buys your car from you.
I have my kid in my car all the time. Who sits in the cars seat, and is firmly belted down (as any responsible parent would do!).
Besides, if you'd ever gone for a drive in *my* car, there's no way you'd be hanging out the window... you'd be planted into the seat back, screaming like a little girl just like most of my passengers....
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12:29 PM
Jun 16th, 2005
Fie Ro Member
Posts: 3735 From: Soest, The Netherlands Registered: Sep 2001
Originally posted by Fie Ro: I checked the specs of my switches : 2A/250V 4A/125V....does that mean 40A/12,5V? I planned to wire them directly, just want to know if they can handle the current.......? your relay solution is nice, will do that if my setup doesnt work.
This question still stands.. ..I am looking at a set of Siemens (Bosch-style) relays, rated for 12V/30A (doesnt say AC or DC) will that work?
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11:03 AM
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by Fie Ro: This question still stands.. ..I am looking at a set of Siemens (Bosch-style) relays, rated for 12V/30A (doesnt say AC or DC) will that work?
Should be plenty of handling power....
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12:18 PM
Jun 17th, 2005
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
This question still stands.. ..I am looking at a set of Siemens (Bosch-style) relays, rated for 12V/30A (doesnt say AC or DC) will that work?
Those relays are the perfect type for automotive use. I buy them by the boxload.
Fiero308 I agree with you that accidents can happen and in a heartbeat. The only problem is that the stock Fiero switches are no safer than the ones Watts is using. And accidents can happen independent of switch design.
I had an incident similar to what you described happen to me in an 88 Trans Am, (which has a setup nearly identical to the Fiero with the switches in the center console.) Anyway I was raising the window and unknown to me a child in the back seat had his head out the window, (those windows are really long) Before I knew what happened the window nearly caught the child in the window. So the moral is windows reall need to have current limiting devices that would reverse the window similar to a garage door.
Originally posted by gt88norm: If I'm not mistaken don't the headlights on the '88s have a current switch that shuts the motors off in the up position?
You are correct.
But they're also part of the whole headlight up/down module. So, unless you always wanted your windows 100% up or down....
I'm sure with a bit of ingenuity you could work around that, but... after all that, why not just grab (lawrences?) power window controller.
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