Getting ready to rebuild the suspension on my Formula. I already have new ball joints and front control arm bushings. I thought that while I had everything apart, I might as well replace the shocks and struts. I did some research here and decided (I thought) that I wanted KYB GR-2's. Then I found that KYB shocks are longer than OEM and allow the control arms to over-extend and hit the shocks. They also bottom out before the control arms hit the bump stops, thus reducing travel. Hmmm. Not good. Someone also mentioned that there was a KYB that is the correct length, but needed work to get it mounted properly. However, noone can find the number. I've also found people who like Gabriels, people who hate Gabriels, people who like Monroes, and people who hate Monroes. I know someone who had Gabriels installed on the rear of his Formula, and he reported that afterwards it felt worse (he called it "wishy-washy"). However, I'm not convinced that he didn't get a bad alignment. I find it hard to believe that new Gabriels are worse than worn out OEM's. Others here have reported that Monroes only last a couple of years, and plan on replacing them periodically under the lifetime warranty. I'm not too wild about that option. In summary, here's what I've found:
Koni - Very stiff, great quality, long lasting, fit perfectly, adjustable, too expensive. KYB GR-2 - 10-15% stiffer than OEM, great quality, long lasting, poor fit. Monroe - Close to OEM stiffness, ? quality, ? longevity, ? fit. Monroe Sensa-Trac - Stiffer than 'standard' Monroe, ? quality, ? longevity, ? fit. Gabriel - Close to OEM stiffness, ? quality, ? longevity, ? fit.
I'm planning on using this car as a daily driver and occassional fun-run autocrossing, so I'm looking for equal to or slightly stiffer than stock, and long life. I would go with KYB GR-2's if they fit properly. I think Koni's would be too stiff, and I KNOW they're too expensive.
Also, regarding strut mounting. I know that some brands (KYB for example) only list struts for 84-87's, but supposedly these can be made to fit 88's. What needs to be done to get an 84-87 strut to fit an 88? I know I've seen it somewhere here, but I can't find it now.
Something to think about.............my first set of Koni's on my Fiero lasted 11 years before the rear struts developed leaks. That's amazing considering that this car gets driven very hard. You might pay more for these shocks/struts, but in my opinion you'd have to replace the other brands at least twice, so the cost does equal out.
I have KYB's on my 88GT and I can't wait to get rid of them. They will go on my 87GT as that car is my back and forth to work car. Konis will go on the 88.
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12:51 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Something to think about.............my first set of Koni's on my Fiero lasted 11 years ....
And even after 11 years, Koni will actually replace them free under their lifetime warranty. This makes Konis a good deal if you plan to keep your car a while. (In fairness, the KYBs also have a lifetime warranty.)
I have a friend who finally wore out the Konis on his '84 Corvette; Koni replaced all of them last year at no charge. My '69 Porsche 911S came with Konis from the factory; they were still on the car and working fine when I sold it 15 years and 125,000 miles later. YMMV.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-11-2005).]
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03:03 PM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7405 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
I took out the rear KYBs out of my Formula after 30K miles and they were shot. I had already bought the KYB replacements so that's what I put in but next time I'll get the Konis.
Konis are very, very good - and also very expensive. Monroe SensaTracs are also very good and much more reasonably priced. Cheaper Monroe struts aren't very good at all; neither are the KYB ones. I haven't tried the Gabriels yet.
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05:09 PM
css9450 Member
Posts: 5533 From: Glen Ellyn, Illinois, USA Registered: Nov 2002
I installed the Monroe Sensatracs and am completely happy with them. I don't drive agressively and only a couple thousand miles a year, so I figure they will last a long time for me.
I have KYBs on my stock '85GT (daily driver), there is nothing wrong with them but they are nothing special. I would not go out of my way or spend any extra money to get them over the Monroe's. In fact, I bought Monroe's to put onto my stock '88GT in the coming weeks.
------------------ RickN White 88GT 5spd White 85GT Auto
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09:29 PM
PFF
System Bot
Formula Owner Member
Posts: 1053 From: Madison, AL Registered: May 2001
I don't know for sure. I will find out when I install mine but I've read here that there used to be a difference between struts for the 88 and the pre-88 cars but now manufactures are supplying the same units for both.
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10:57 PM
May 14th, 2005
FTF Engineering Member
Posts: 710 From: Near Philadelphia PA Registered: Sep 2001
I did some research here and decided (I thought) that I wanted KYB GR-2's. Then I found that KYB shocks are longer than OEM and allow the control arms to over-extend and hit the shocks. They also bottom out before the control arms hit the bump stops, thus reducing travel.
You are right about the KYB's being longer than stock, but the general consensus is that the extra length doesn't cause any problems. Plenty of people on the forum have the KYBs on the front of 88's without incident. I'm not one of them however since I'm running Monroe LE1012's.
I assume these two threads showed up in your research?
There was one guy in one of those threads that had problems but I'm not sure he had the right shock or if he had a different number.
quote
Also, regarding strut mounting. I know that some brands (KYB for example) only list struts for 84-87's, but supposedly these can be made to fit 88's. What needs to be done to get an 84-87 strut to fit an 88? I know I've seen it somewhere here, but I can't find it now.
On the rears, the same strut can be used for all years. There was some unimportant change to the spring perch that makes KYB think they can't be used on the '88, but they fit just fine. Whatever the change was has no effect. I don't know why they never figured that out.
Does any of that help?
-Bruce at FTF
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10:05 PM
May 15th, 2005
cone shark Member
Posts: 160 From: Northern, NY Registered: Jun 2001
This shows the difference between stock '88, Koni and KYB monotubes.
This shows the L.H.S. of my Formula with the Koni shock installed. The stock shock came to full extension and stopped suspension travel way before the upper a-arm hit the cross member. Not so with the Koni and KYB. My concerns with the longer shocks were the possibility of binding ball joints and shock loads with direct metal to metal contact of the upper a-arm and crossmember. Also if I had run the Koni the tip of crossmember would have worn a hole in the upper ball joint boot. ( A little grinding would have solved this I think) I hadn't considered the possibilty of the shock bottoming out in compression. Has somebody actually checked this out?
I don't doubt people use Koni's and KYB's seemingly without problems but technically I don't think they fit. My question is - are we putting a penny in the fuse holder?
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01:22 AM
FTF Engineering Member
Posts: 710 From: Near Philadelphia PA Registered: Sep 2001
I don't doubt people use Koni's and KYB's seemingly without problems but technically I don't think they fit. My question is - are we putting a penny in the fuse holder?
Thanks for the pics cone shark. I went through all this years ago and didn't take any pics.
I'm with you. I didn't like the differences either. So much so that I took the KYB's back to the store and exchanged them for the Monroe's which are the same size as stock.
I have Koni Specials on all 4 corners of my '88. Yes, they're about double the price of anything else, but I think they're well worth it. I have mine set stiff as can be, and I'm able to drive on them everyday. They ride stiff. Especially with poly-thane bushings at all 4 corners as well, but they're still livable. But if you want, set them alittle softer. The rears can be adjusted in the car. But the front will need to be R&Red to adjust. You can always play with them to see what you want. If they're set as soft as can be, I think they pretty much ride like the stockers. So you have a pretty big window of adjustment. Oh yeah, and it takes all the body roll out. Have a look.
FTF Engineering, I found both of those threads. That's how I found out about the KYB size difference. Thanks for the info on Monroe's being the same size.
Cone Shark, Thanks also for the pics. I'm also concerned with the "penny in the fuse holder" syndrome. If you do this enough times, eventually you have a rolling piece of junk. Not that Koni's or KYB's are junk. Just the opposite. But if you put too many wrong sized parts on a car, you may find yourself with problems like: funny handling due to wrong offset wheels, unable to cross speed bumps due to muffler being too low, bumps & clunks when various parts hit each other when they shouldn't, etc.
Zewerr, The Koni's look close enough in size that I could live with them, and I would definately like the adjustability, but they are more like 4X the cost of Monroe's. I can get a set of Sensa-Tracs for about $150. Koni's run $620 at the Fiero Store. That's a little much for a daily driver.
I have KYBs on my stock '85GT (daily driver), there is nothing wrong with them but they are nothing special. I would not go out of my way or spend any extra money to get them over the Monroe's. In fact, I bought Monroe's to put onto my stock '88GT in the coming weeks.
I was about to order set on ebay for my 85 GT did you have fitment probs or is that just on 88s? Thanks
