I think that is the correct name for the motor, '91 - 93 Pon GA.

I have read all I can find here about the change over. However I haven't found anything yet about doing an Auto conversion.
Has anyone else done it?
Would the 125 be ok, or should I also take the trans that is ciurrently hooked up to it? (I don't know what it is. I didn't think to look when I saw the motor!)

GA?
Grand Am?
if the engine is in a grand am it shouldn't be a 3.4 TDC unless someone swapped it into that car. If you mean GP then yes it could be a TDC.

Just might want to clarify that for people who are looking at the thread. Don't know about the auto business tho.

Well, you have me confused now.
I looked at so many cars that day. I was sure that it was a Grand Am, I may be mistaken though. It may have been a Grand Prix.
I do know for a fact that it was a dual overhead cam 3.4.

The point was, would the TH125 be sufficient for a 3.4 TDC or should I consider using the trans that is hooked to it now.

Do not use an auto with the 3.4 DOHC. You lose the best part about this engine if you go auto. This engine is a screamer and it needs to see rpms. If you want to go auto then the 3.8 would be a better engine to use.

------------------
Chris

3.4 TDC SWAP COMPLETED...this is going to be a fun car

like he said dont use an auto..................

Thanks for the replies............... Sigh........

It was a toss up after reading about the 3.4 (3800 was my fiest choice). When I found what appears to be a perfect 3.4 for $250, it started me thinking.

Thanks again guys!

The auto 3.4 isn't as bad as they say. I have driven many btw, all in 3500lb W-bodies too. While I prefer the 5-speed of course, by FAR, an auto isn't that bad, and it doesn't ruin the engine at all. It will still pull strong, and be fun for sure. But off the line won't be as strong, and the shifts will drop the rpm a lot, but it'll climb back up. I say do it, it'd definately be a lot more power than your 2.8, and a lot more fun to drive, and a lot cheaper/easier than a 3800. It also offers much smoother, less violent acceleration than the manuals. But for the fun factor and all out acceleration, the stick will of course be better, but that doesn't mean that it will feel like a 100hp 4 cyl with an auto, you still have 220+hp moving a 2500lb car, which is bound to be quick!

1991-1994 Lumina Z34 and Euro 3.4
1995-1997 Lumina LTZ and SE 3.4
1995-1997 Monte Carlo Z34
1991-1996 Grand Prix GTP and SE 3.4
1991-1997 Cutlass

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If you're going to use an automatic transmission, use the one that was originally mated to the engine. I think the 3.4 TDC auto cars used the 4T60E.. so its electronically controlled. You also get an overdrive gear for better gas mileage.

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: If you're going to use an automatic transmission, use the one that was originally mated to the engine. I think the 3.4 TDC auto cars used the 4T60E.. so its electronically controlled. You also get an overdrive gear for better gas mileage.

I agree with this. Better gears, electric control, etc. But the 3.4, when modded, starts to eat them uppretty fast. The 97 had the 4T65e, I'dsuggest that. Much stronger, and can be modded.

Thank you gentlemen.
That is really the kind of reply I was hoping/looking for.

Balls to the wall performance is great, but I would really just like more than I have now.
Not that the 2.8 isn't a really nice engine, it scoots me around just fine.

I just like a little more zip in my life.
Drink black coffee, smoke non-filter cigarettes and drink my scotch straight. Just a little more zip!

I disagree about using an auto on this engine. The TDC is a rev motor and saddling it with a slushbox is just killing all that is good with this engine. Now this might not be the case in the cars it originally came in but now we're talking about putting it in a lightweight sportscar. the Fiero is a whole different ballgame than the Lumina's, GTP's and etc. It's not only about acceleration it's about the real hidden sweetness of this engine and it's real capabilities. That engine's greatest fun factor is using it's wild powerband whether it's going fast or just using a lower gear much longer than you could normally. First gear is actually useable with that engine for more than just a few seconds. You no longer need to shift out of first before you're around a turn and you can actually downshift into it which is something I would have never dreamed about doing with the pushrod 6. It's an exciting combo and saddling it down with an auto, which does take away from it's powerband, just would make it a whole lot more boring to drive. Autos are better suited for torque motors than rev motors. Doing a rev motor conversion into a light sportscar and putting an auto behind it just seems like you're defeating the purpose of the whole thing. I'd seriously advise you to rethink that. If you want an auto I think you'd be a whole lot better off with a 4.9 or 3800 in my opinion anyway.
Mileage is also going to be better with the manual. Just my .02

------------------

As we all said the 5-speed is a lot more fun to drive, and we would all rather have one. But having driven many many 3.4/autos, they aren't that bad, and with so little weight, it'd be fun. The only parts I hated with the autos were the launch (or lack thereof), and the higher gears (3,4). But from a performance stand point, they aren't that bad once you get them moving. 1st gear redlines at 6500rpm, and hits the next gear at 4500rpm, which is all but perfect, and the rest follow suite. Now I agree it isn't as fun to drive, but saying it ruins the motor is untrue. The motor still acts just the same, and is super easy daily driving, and it still has that mad rush of power at 3500rpm that the sticks will.

The 3.4 will add A LOT of zip over a 2.8, to say it lightly...You will drop your 1/4mi about 2 seconds, which is simply amazing. And with a car as light as a Fiero, that thing will get off the line plenty quick, if you can keep the tires hooked up...

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: As we all said the 5-speed is a lot more fun to drive, and we would all rather have one.

and 4speeds :b

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Now I agree it isn't as fun to drive, but saying it ruins the motor is untrue. The motor still acts just the same, and is super easy daily driving, and it still has that mad rush of power at 3500rpm that the sticks will. The 3.4 will add A LOT of zip over a 2.8, to say it lightly...You will drop your 1/4mi about 2 seconds, which is simply amazing. And with a car as light as a Fiero, that thing will get off the line plenty quick, if you can keep the tires hooked up...

All the goodness that is the TDC is because of it's versatile powerband and without a manual to explore that it is not the fun it can be. Also, as I said originally, this is a rev motor and you're putting it into a sportscar which means you're actually chosing to use an auto behind it which makes no sense to me at all. Why would you be throwing in a rev motor if not to rev and explore it's canyon sized powerband? For more zip than the 2.8? You could get that with any of the bazillions of conversions available for the Fiero with an auto and have it work much better since autos work better with more torquey motors. A 4.9 and auto or 3800 makes much more sense and that's all I'm saying. The problem with you Aaron is that you don't want to believe that the TDC can be bad in any situation but it can. An auto just kills that thing when all it's greatness is in it's reving ability. Where as a torquier motor and auto can be a good match especially when we're talking about a conversion and you use the trans the motor originally came with and not the crappy T-125 that the Fiero came with.
Autos and reving are just not so fun as you have no control over where it is or where it goes in the powerband. Not sure if I'm explaining that well but hopfully someone will understand what I mean by that. Now I'll say again that this is just my .02 and if it wouldn't ruin the motor for you then fine but it sure would for me and it looks like most others from the responses given above. When you have a majority of people saying the same thing, you can yell all you want to the contrary but it's still worth thinking that there must be a reason for these people to be saying this. My advise to the original poster is that you drive one with a stick first and that will settle it for you. I can't imagine someone driving this motor with a stick and wanting an auto afterward to be honest.

quote Originally posted by Dave Gunsul: I can't imagine someone driving this motor with a stick and wanting an auto afterward to be honest.

I can't imagine anyone with a fiero wanting an auto after driving a stick...with any motor

...especially with the 3.4 DOHC. The thing revs to what, 7200rpm IIRC?...pulling hard the whole way. That would be awesome with a manual...no more winding out first gear in the corner. I only go up to about 5500-6k with my 3.4 and it winds out the isuzu 1st gear way too fast...(the Isuzu gearing isn't the greatest though)

Dave

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-07-2005).]

quote Originally posted by ditch: I can't imagine anyone with a fiero wanting an auto after driving a stick...with any motor

lol very true.

Can the isuzu 5 speed gears handle a 3.4 without any major problems. I mean I know it has its kinks which we have all delt with but anything else anyone should know? I have been thinking of swapping this engine into my coupe because of its sound. Not to mention its pretty fast in a fiero.

quote Originally posted by ditch: ...especially with the 3.4 DOHC. The thing revs to what, 7200rpm IIRC?...pulling hard the whole way. That would be awesome with a manual...no more winding out first gear in the corner. I only go up to about 5500-6k with my 3.4 and it winds out the isuzu 1st gear way too fast...(the Isuzu gearing isn't the greatest though) Dave

Pulling hard the whole way? My ass. It takes many modifications to make it not nose dive after 5500rpm. IN FACT, even with the 96+ intakes, a LS1 throttle body, and headers tuned for 6800 rpm my max power wasn't moved at all (Well up, but not left or right), and it still took a dive after 6500rpm, after slowly falling off after 6000. A bone stock 3.4 loses hp and torque after 5500 rpm, and this is dyno proven. In fact, at 7000rpm, it is making just 120whp, and 80wtq. 120hp!!! I wouldn't call that revving all the way. We had a 8 page long discussion for the best shift points for the 3.4 using dyno charts and the 4T60e ratios, and it turns out that EVERY SHIFT the auto does perfectly, off never by more than 100rpm from optimal. Furthermore, the low end is really good. Mine made over 160wtq from 2000rpm to 5500. That is a wide curve, with a lot of low end. It does come in hard at 3500, but all that is gone a few seconds later. So with an auto, it would be a great driver. It has over 60ft lbs of torque more than the 2.8 does, at any rpm, yet still has that 3500 push that comes in.

How does the auto not get to explore the same revs? Get a chip that will raise the shift points and go wherever you want. Stock shift points are near 6500rpm, and trust me, with the power your making between 6500-7000 (If you want to call it power...), and the strain your putting on the #4 bearing, it isn't worth it. I say trust me after blowing a motor with just 127k, synthetic oils, and 7000rpm shifts, and after seeing how poor it really does, with respect to the high end, on the dyno.

The 3.4 is better than any other swap in many ways. It is a really easy install, is the cheapest, and offers the most power per hour/dollar spent. It also offers superior driving characteristics, with great gas mileage. Some people don't put it in to rip up the local strip or 1/4mi, some do it to enhance the Fiero as a daily driver, or as a replacement for an old, tired 2.8.

I hate automatics. But to say that a 3.4 is a revving motor, when it is making more hp AND tq at 2000rpm than it is at 7, is just ignorant. The only reason it is called a revving motor is becuz it can hit 7, some how...It does like the higher mid range, and it is much more fun to drive with a 5-speed. But it is incorrect to say that it kills the 3.4. You are still making 220+hp, using the best possible shift points, and it is still the same motor. I have owned a 5-speed Z34 (2 actually), and an auto. I can't say which I liked better. The 5-speed was faster (barely), and more fun to drive. The launch aside, that auto was right on my bumper EVERY TIME. But the auto was much easier to drive, and I loved being able to just punch it, and have it in the right gear. It also made the car much more daily-driving friendly. I have chosen the Getrag myself, for many reasons. I would much rather drive a stickshift. But this isn't to say that the auto ruins the 3.4, it most certainly doesn't.

No offense because we all have different opinions from time to time, but I'm going to jump in here and use this rare opportunity to agree with Aaron. Some people really prefer autos and sometimes, I too hate driving a stick- too much hassle in traffic. I think if you were to use an automatic with the TDC the way GM designed it and the way most people bought it you would have a really nice ride. Like Aaron said, 220hp is going to give you one quick Fiero. But now I have to side with Dave, a 4.9 would give you a boat load of low end useable power and it would be a much easier swap. It would also sound better (my own personal preference and opinion), be quicker from light to light, and be more reliable. The 4.9 would also give you more room in the engine compartment and you wouldn't have to cut your decklid springs. You could also easily change your oil filter from the top and pour in new oil without a funnel.

I think the guys who talk up the 5-speed are a different type of driver than the auto guys. If you're sold on an auto and have easy cheap access to a TDC, by all means I think you'll love it. But you can also get a 4.9 cheaply and it would give you more low end power and the V8 WOW factor. (yes, I'm biased )

Edit to actually answer your question: The only thing you might have some trouble with is figuring what kind of drive shafts to use. Most people use a manual tranny which uses stock mounts and driveshafts. Someone on here want to chime in about which transaxle mounts to use and which driveshafts?

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-Rick Stewart
85GT 5.0CaddyV8/Getrag 5-spd in progress...
www.V8Fiero.com

[This message has been edited by GT (edited 06-07-2005).]

I had an 87 SE 2.8 with a getrag. At the same time I had my 85 GT auto.
The 87 was definitely more fun to drive. However, when I drove the SE I was always Ricky Roadracer. Even now when I drive the SE, which I traded to my friend because he wanted it more than I did, I still become Ricky Roadracer. At 60, I don't need street raceing tickets.
In my auto, which isn't nearly as much fun to drive, I am a lot more sensible. Which is a good thing. THAT is the reason I drive my auto, no other. It keeps me out of trouble. Besides, the gear shifter is still right there beside my hand if I want a little more control.

From all I have read, all I could find, the 3.4 is the easiest of all the conversions. Which is a big plus for me. With the exception of the starter it is supposed to be an almost drop in replacement. Which works for me.

A Q for those with stick shifts;
How often do you actually take it to 7 grand? First and maybe second, most of the time. How about 3rd or 4th? Not very often I bet.

I am not trying to start an arguement or create hate and discontent. Really I am not!
I was just seriously interested in the implications and problems of using this motor behind a slush box. I fully understand that a sports car with an auto technically sucks (big time!), but that is what I have and it is what I opted for.
Besides, sometimes I have other things for my right hand to be doing besides shifting gears,

I haven't looked at or considered a 4.9. I would have to research the what it takes to do that conversion. But thank you for the suggestion.

Once again, Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the responces and suggestions.

quote Originally posted by GT: But now I have to side with Dave, a 4.9 would give you a boat load of low end useable power and it would be a much easier swap. It would also sound better (my own personal preference and opinion), be quicker from light to light, and be more reliable. The 4.9 would also give you more room in the engine compartment and you wouldn't have to cut your decklid springs. You could also easily change your oil filter from the top and pour in new oil without a funnel.

Uh oh, he disses my 3.4: ATTACK! lol j/k...I think, from my reading, that the 3.4 DOHC is a much easier swap. It is a drop in using the factory mounts and tranny. Re-run the hoses, do the wiring, and its all but done. From my understanding the 4.9 is a bit more complex. Sound better, of course...lol...Also, just becuz the 3.4 doesn't make much low end compared to its midrange, doesn't mean it can't get off the line. I'd be willing to bet that a 5-speed 3.4 would have the 4.9 passed by 45mph, assuming he launches it well. As for the more reliable part, stop listening to the rumors, the DOHC is just as reliable as every other 60 degree V6, of which are notorious for their good reliability. Change the timing belt every 60k, and oil every 3, and you will be fine. The oil filter is easy to get to, but it is underneath, and the oil fill does have to be addressed, but you should be using a funnel anyways. The 4.9 is a great motor don't get me wrong, as is the 3.4, but they are totally different animals, and I am not the one to say which is better, as I am also biased....see sig....

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No Aaron, what's ignorant is you. You post things time and again without any experience to back it up. Yes you've driven the TDc in many different incarnations in Lumis but it is different in a Fiero and you'll learn that soon enough. My 2.8 has much more down low than Fieromadmans TDC and we've both agreed on that so you comment there is also invalid as usual. Not calling a DOHC motor a rev motor is also ignorant. A rev motor does not necassarily have to hit 7k to be such. The point is that the TDC makes it's realy power well above the normal pushrod motor does at a higher rpm range.
Also; there's not much stock left with the TDC when it's usually installed in a Fiero. A custom exhaust is needed no matter what for one thing and that adds upper end power not to mention many opt for the cam retard which also gives higher end power. Ride in Fieromadmans car and tell me again that they don't pull up to 7k! I would seriously eat a pile of dog crap if you could say that after riding in his car and say that honestly.
You bring up the many talks you have had over at 60 degree about power up high and yet you don't mention how everyone over there calls you an idiot constantly. I wonder why?
Finally; the TDC is not the easiest swap out there and neither is it the best. I happen to like it very much and plan to do one myself BUT it's ignorant to say things like that. The 4.9 is just as easy and cheap. As I said before, you don't want to acknowledge the fact that the TDC is not the holy grail of swaps. It has it's shortcomings just like all the rest and you're a fool if you don't realize them.
Also; a lot of you are misunderstanding what I'm saying about reving and exploring the powerband. Yes you can get an auto to allow shifts at a higher rpm but what you missed in my post is the exploring part. You don't have to bounce off the limiter to explore it's range and that's not what I meant. What I meant was that this engine has a very wide powerband and it's useful in lots of ways and in lots of different gears. For example; the TDC actually makes the low first gear of a Getrag usable. I actually downshifted into first making a turn in Fieromadmans car which is something I wouldn't even consider doing with the 2.8 in my car even though my 2.8 is much more high end friendly with it's particular mods than the average one.
You know Aaron, I love the TDC, I am dying to have one in my own Fiero, I am happy someone like you is so die hard about the engine and defends it to the death BUT comparing that boat of a Lumi to the Fiero is not working for you. The TDC and Fiero manual fit each other so well and create such a sweet combo that an auto is just not a real option once you've experienced it. This does not mean it's always about speed either. This means it is about having conrtrol over this wild engine that an auto can't give you. It also means that you need that manual to get the engine in the right gear when it's modded. It acts completely different in a Fiero than a Lumi, trust me as you say and you'll find out soon enough.

Oh yeah, Aaron I forgot to mention, I love the new signature! Looks nice.

But it does show the reliability problems with the TDC, as you can plainly see, the one in your sig is on fire! I don't think the timing belts are particularly a problem with maintenance. But it seems like every TDC I've seen (including the one I rebuilt) has rod bearing failures at relatively low miles. I'm not sure if it's the low oil pressure from all those miles of head oil passages, or the fact that people love to rev them. I know there were some GM TSB's written on the low oil pressure. Whatever the case, they seem to really eat through some bearings.

-Rick

well Aaron, i hate to say it but i think your stupid. Everyone knows that stock cams on this damn thing are restrictive. EVERYONE knows that. Now, you have spent alot of money making your car fast but have not done one of the most simple (and costless) mods. You know what im talking about.. cam timing. Now listen buddy, you b*tch and moan about the high end on these things all of the time, and how awsome yours is with all of the mods. Now lets think about this. Cam timing generates about 20 FREE horsepower and bumps up the power band the higher RPMS. In fact, the way that i did it, it really didnt raise where the power band started (maybe 2-300 rpms) but it prolonged it greatly. Instead of dropping off around 5500 RPMS it not pulls strong to 6500 and i feel comfortable running it to 7000 before i shift because i know its not just making noise. Now granted, i did some other mods at the same time as this that helped, but really anyone that puts one of these in a fiero will be doing most of what i did right off the bat anyhow.
Furthermore, something that you arent catching off of what dave is trying to say about the manual is that you can be more exploritive about this engine with a manual than an auto. In fact, as far as driving stick goes, with this motor its really really easy. if you need a little extra time to shift wind it out, if you dont want to shift so much, skip shift (its got the low end for it). If you wanna feel the power rush, short shift 1st and pop it in second around 2500 rpms and floor it and feel it press you into the seat around 3500 rpms. If you wanna feel how smooth it is downshift to 1st around a corner. With an auto your stuck with what it chooses to do.
I know what i like, and thats why i choose to do what i did. I guess each to their own. After driving a MX-6 auto with that DOHC v-6, it sure as heck felt saddled down. if you use an auto at least get it re-programmed for a sportier type driving. Or better yet put a real shifter in your hand and feel what the motor has to offer. You wont be dissapointed.

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3.4 DOHC Motor Swap-
180* t-stat
1.5 degree intake cam advance and 5 degree exhaust cam retard
ported lower intake
FFP pulley
A/C Idler
Complete custom flowmaster exhaust
EGR delete
K&N filter
Only known manual transmission 94-95 ECM setup in existance!!!
custom chip

www.geocities.com/j_depies

quote Originally posted by fieromadman:

But he is so quiet in person... LOL

Sorry Jeff

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Pulling hard the whole way? My ass. .

take a fuking pill man, I've heard many 3.4 DOHC owners make that claim and it isn't hard to believe

quote Originally posted by carbon: But he is so quiet in person... LOL Sorry Jeff

Nah Nick, once you get to know him, you wonder if he'll ever shut up. j/k
Kidding Jeff, juuust kidding.

if it took a dive after 5500rpm then i would have just gotten the 3800sc since its peak is at about 5500

it's so awsome when other people take care of the little things and i can just sit back and read. but everyone should be a little nicer to aaron. think about it, he's got an 88gt and is going to do a 3.4 dohc swap. what this means is when the engineis in the car and he can't get it to run i'll be able to pick it up on ebay for a few hundred dollars and have myself a nice driver. so please everyone be a little bit more encouraging to aaron.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: it's so awsome when other people take care of the little things and i can just sit back and read. but everyone should be a little nicer to aaron. think about it, he's got an 88gt and is going to do a 3.4 dohc swap. what this means is when the engineis in the car and he can't get it to run i'll be able to pick it up on ebay for a few hundred dollars and have myself a nice driver. so please everyone be a little bit more encouraging to aaron.

Hahaha. When its in the car, and won't start, notice I say when and not if..., I will make it start. If this means putting on the stock intakes, stock cams, etc, I'll do it. IT WILL START.

Cam timing was next on my list, the only reason I didn't do it before the intakes on my Z34 was becuz the car already wasn't idling worth a **** . I know they help a ton, I've seen what they do on the dyno, it will make a modded 3.4 pull to 6500-7000 with minimal drop off. Also, you'd be amazed at how much more fuel the car needs from 6000 up with cam timing done, it is A LOT. We ran a chip with the cam timing/96 intake code in my car, and after 6500, it went pig rich cuz I had stock timing.

I like 5-speeds, I hate autos, and I will always like 5-speeds. But the 3.4 isn't that bad with an auto. It isn't what I want, not nearly, but it is a great combo for daily driving. It is like a Corvette owner, we see that auto, and think pu$$y, but there is a perfectly good reason he chose an auto, even in a Corvette.

The 2.8 is NEVER making more torque than the 3.4, AT ANY RPM. How his has more low end than your's is beyond me...If someone would, I'd like to see a stock 2.8 dyno, that shows hp/tq with respect to RPM.

Aaron, im not gonna sit here and call you names, but you are mistaken about the 3.4 DOHC engine.... when in a fiero it does pull to 7,000 RPM.. come to new orleans and see!!! I did 40mph in 1st FORTY FREAKING MPH!!!! and i can go upwards of 70 in only second gear.... pulling hard so hard that my 245/40/18 will BITE (not chirp, BITE) going to second..... in comparison my friend with a SBC can barely get across the street in 1st.......

Is my speedo off???? i dunno.

Dave G is right about the powerband ask any 3.4 DOHC owner with a 5 speed if they really put it in 5th racing??????? i havent......... And to prove the powerband,When you finally get your 3.4 DOHC do this........ do like 50 mph......in fifth......... then drop it into second...... anytime a car can go from 5th to 2nd and pull hard and be nowhere at the redline.. thats a powerband!!!!!!!!!

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3.4 DOHC V6 pushing mid 13's a true mustang eater!!!

Full tubular suspension!
Fully adjustable coilovers front and rear!
Poly everything!
3.4L TWIN DUAL CAM V6 240+H.P.
Heads p/p!
underdrive pulley!
Darth chip!
Accell performance ignition!
Borla exhaust (how sweet)!
Strut tower brace
Now who ever said that a V6 can be fast????????

Thank you for the info GT.
I am assuming that you mean that the starter on the FWD 3.4's does not need to be changed?
Heck, even at 175 - 185 hp, it would be a nice addition. Especially if it is a simple swap.
I would really like to do as much as possible outside of the car.
Get another cradle and get everything set up, then just do a drop and swap if at all possible.

The 4.9 sounds interesting, but involved. I have to do another search of the past posts. Last nights search turned up so much non-relevant info, I gave up reading them and went to bed.

quote Originally posted by Exotic Rida: Aaron, im not gonna sit here and call you names, but you are mistaken about the 3.4 DOHC engine.... when in a fiero it does pull to 7,000 RPM.. come to new orleans and see!!! I did 40mph in 1st FORTY FREAKING MPH!!!! and i can go upwards of 70 in only second gear.... pulling hard so hard that my 245/40/18 will BITE (not chirp, BITE) going to second..... in comparison my friend with a SBC can barely get across the street in 1st....... Is my speedo off???? i dunno. Dave G is right about the powerband ask any 3.4 DOHC owner with a 5 speed if they really put it in 5th racing??????? i havent......... And to prove the powerband,When you finally get your 3.4 DOHC do this........ do like 50 mph......in fifth......... then drop it into second...... anytime a car can go from 5th to 2nd and pull hard and be nowhere at the redline.. thats a powerband!!!!!!!!!

By pulling, I meant making power. The engine itself is going to make the same amount of power whether it be in a 8000lb Hummer or a 2800lb Fiero. In the Z34s it'll do 35mph in 1st. It will still redline every gear in the Z34, but it would be more benficial to shift out at 6500 on a stock motor, becuz it is making so little power after that. The powerband is really wide, I never said it wasn't. An auto can be doing 50mph in OD, and drop into 2nd and be at 4000rpm, a perfect place to do business. I guess it'd have to hit 3rd first, but the auto will still get from 4th to 2nd faster than you will going directly to 2nd from 5th.

I've never gone into 5th racing, but I've redlined 4th a few times (130mph), and once tried to do a top speed run, got it to about 140 before I had to let off. It was at like 4500rpm, so power was just starting to come on hard.

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Pulling hard the whole way? My ass. take a fuking pill man, I've heard many 3.4 DOHC owners make that claim and it isn't hard to believe

Im not sure why Aaron would dis his own motor, then again I havent read the whole thread, but I know from experience, when I was running the engine in a bare frame unless I paid real close attention, I would bounce it off the rev limiter all the time in 1st and 2nd, it has no down to its powerband, just slams right into the REV limiter. Now in the fully assembled car I still occasionaly hit Rev limiter, but Ive learned how to drive it. Its not as fast now that its 600lbs heavier, but you still cant feel a drop before fuel cutoff.

I had a whole bunch of stuff typed here originally to argue with aaron but I deleted them before I even hit send as I realize it's just not worth it.

To the original poster; I am all for the guy who wants to be different and try something new. I am also always for deciding what works for you best but I do actually believe that an auto is a definite mistake with the DOHC 3.4. The more I read your responses, I think you're actually talking about the pushrod 3.4 anyway. The pushrod 3.4 is the one that only requires the starter to be changed to the other side for it to work in the Fiero. That engine would work well with an auto. I would rather have a manual behind it personally but it does have plenty of low end torque which would work much better with an auto than the TDC would. I really do believe that, by putting an auto behind the TDC motor, you will miss why this engine really shines. I think you'd be much better off with a more torquey motor if you are planning on using an auto such as the pushrod 3.4, the 4.9, or the 3800 in N/A or the super charged versions. There's tons of 4.9 build up threads around to look at that will show you that the 4.9 is every bit as easy and cheap a swap to do as the TDC is. The 3.4 pushrod is probably the cheapest swap of them all though since it is basically the same engine as the 2.8. You even use the 2.8 accessories such as valve covers, intakes, water pump, oil pan, etc. there's also no wiring changes required nor computer changes, although, a chip from Darth Fiero would help performance but that's very minor.
Also, you might want to consider where you're getting your info from. Go over to 60 degree dot com and post a question on aarons credability. that should be an interesting thread to read.

Dave;
The engine I was looking at was definitely at twin cam. Hard to mistake it. When IO saw it, I thought, Wow, that is a hunk of motor. And went on about my business, which is why I was s sketchy in my first post.
On the way home I thought that it might be a good engine for my car. When I did get home, I came here and read all the rave reviews on this engine, but no one ever mentioned useing it with an auto, which prompted my orginal post.

After reading this thread and how far it has gone, I can see that while the engine would be OK, I would probably be better of with a 3.4 pushrod out of a FWD car. Which is OK with me to.
I have looked at a current thread about a 4.9 swap. From what I have seen, it is far more work than I want to get into. 20 - 30 years ago, I would have jumped into the middle of the most difficult swap and thought nothing of it. I guess I am just getting lazy in my old age

This old girl is my daily driver. I am going to keep it for a long time. If I ever find a fastback that I can afford, I will get that also. That one, the fastback, I would probably take the time to make into a rocket, just for kicks.

Well that pretty much settles it then. The TDC wiring/install is just as difficult as the 4.9 is. I hope that my comments in this thread did not insult you or your thinking on the TDC swap. I would certainly conceed that it would be zippier than the stock 2.8 with an auto behind it but I do feel strongly that if you drove one with a stick you would know why I have said what I said. I have fallen in love with the TDC and the reason I have is that wild powerband that you can play with so well with a manual trans. I do always believe that what one person likes is not necassarily what another would but I truely feel that this engine is saddled down when it's placed behind an auto and I also feel that's partially why it was canceled. It was in the wrong car with the wrong trans. If it had been put into a car like the Fiero from the beginning, I think the TDC would still be made.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Im not sure why Aaron would dis his own motor, then again I havent read the whole thread, but I know from experience, when I was running the engine in a bare frame unless I paid real close attention, I would bounce it off the rev limiter all the time in 1st and 2nd, it has no down to its powerband, just slams right into the REV limiter. Now in the fully assembled car I still occasionaly hit Rev limiter, but Ive learned how to drive it. Its not as fast now that its 600lbs heavier, but you still cant feel a drop before fuel cutoff.

The dyno sheets don't lie. It is a bone stock 3.4, a GM crate engine, rated at 200/200, and it made 178/186, which is very respectable out of a stock 3.4. But, just like very other stock to lightly modded 3.4, it falls off heavily on the high end.

And Dave, the DOHC makes more low end than the 3.4 OHV with the Fiero intakes and such, probably more than the OHV does in a Camaro.