Just a bump to keep it going.
My previous plan to use the dogbone mounting method above did not work out. First I mocked it up without the fuel rail in there so they were taking up the same space.
I have been busy at work so not much progress. My harness is due back this week so I will hopefully start it this weekend. I will record it for those that are interested in hearing one run.
Here are some pic of my coolant hoses.
This is the passenger side. I used an aluminum hard pipe.

Here is the drivers side. I am waiting on a "inline filler" I modified the stock Fiero filler, but was not happy with the final location. I still want to use it, I like the idea of changing the thermostat easily. But for now I will use the Z34 "gooseneck" with an inline filler.

The hose has spiral wire in the walls so it will not "kink" great for tight bends.
Aslo if you notice I bent the dipstick tube and got a new dipstick.

well....... since you asked.......
".......No comments yet? Well I think the next "dogbone" will be pretty unique.
Anyways here are a couple more pics, the first is where my fuel lines will end up, and I might have taken to much of the hinge off....."

I was away on some holidays; you're flying along here; that's great!
I guess I am particularly hung up on the dogbone and mount issue and I realize you have it in place, but a thought for you for the future or whatever maybe.......
where you welded that heavy "U" bracket to the fiero 'sheet metal' - you might consider the 'weakest link' idea: ie the whole thing will be as strong as the weakest link there which will be the thinnest metal. What you might do at some point is weld on some heavier steel as a base (like a big 'patch') and then weld the U bracket to that heavier steel. That would help spread out the forces acting on that connection point over a bigger area. So if that connection 'works' with a bit of twisting and flexing it will spread that force out over a bigger area and distance and thus be less inclined to 'shear' at the weld point.

Something for when you next drop the motor to chrome the whole thing LOL

Great thread and pix; thanks for sharing!! I am looking forward to hearing a sound clip! Have you got the exh figured out in your head? What muffler etc (getting ahead of myself/yourself....)

Excellent information. Keep it coming. I'm going to need all the info I can get when I start mine.

Hey a small update.

fiero308 I do agre with you on the first dogbone. My original plan was to get some bolts through the plate. There is thicker steel under the top layer that I think would be better to add some bolts to, for that pulling effect. I did think about using a "spreader plate" to spread the load, but I figure if this one breaks then I will go that route. I have thought of this and I am aiming to get the other dogbone, the tourque strut (will be replaced with a solid link), and "poly" all around and hopefully this motor will be really tight. I have thought of actually mounting a camera back there with the decklid off and recording the movements during acceleration.
I have figured out my exhaust, 2 large stainless canister type mufflers, like the ones you would commonly se on a Supra or 300zx. Some would disagree on this choice, but thats my style so. I am using the two front manifolds. I am going to listen to the shop doing the work as they do Nascar exhaust( www.drgas.com ) on the routing of the pipes. I am leaning twords the front (our front) crossing over like the stock pipe does where it will merge with the rear pipe in an X over that does not reduce the size but balances the flow. from there they will continue on there seperate ways to the mufflers. 2" maybe 2.5" all the way no cats.
Thanks for taking the time to give your advise I always apreciate another opinion.

Sourmug.
Cant wait to see that plenum!

Quick pics
Here is my attempt to use the stock Fiero thermostat housing. works great but I might have to tip the car on its side, LOL


Here is the heater hose, just used a 1.5" hose coupler and some more hose

Oh, I'm slaving away on the plenum. Sanding, sanding, sanding...

I'll post some pics once I'm finished polishing.
Sometime, in the future...

Ok I am still here!
I got a few things done in the past 2 days.
I have the tail lights and rear fascia back on. I got some wires from Summit I thouhgt would be 8 mm but are only 7mm.
Heres a pic of the accells from Summit

oh and heres a pic of the intake I made. Found a K&N intake tube that had hole for the sensor for $7.00 so I chopped it up and :

Oh yeah and I got it started! I tried to upload the video to Gigashare and it wouldnt work so if anyone knows of an easier one let me know.
Well it sounds mean there is no exhaust untill this week but you can tell by the note that it will sound really crazy.

I would like to thank Erik for the harness. It really was plug and play just like he said it would be. His service is top notch it arrived within the time frame he specified and with the quality of something you would think costs alot more than it did. I aslo sent my chip to Darth and he returned that within a week.It is people like them (and others I am sure) that make this place special to me. Think about it in this time and day were people steal from there own family, and you hear about theft over the internet, that doing business over the web is risky. Well during this project I have encountered nothing but good people on this site. I have recieved great advise, good sugestions and I not once had to worrie about being mislead or being taken for my money. To think it never even crossed my mind to worrie about sending perfect strangers my money. I for one am glad we as the whole Fiero comunity have people like this and a place to come together and learn. I guess I should thank Cliff for makiing this place so we all can have contact with so many smart and creative people.
Someone got another site to upload vids to?

Erik has my business, as does Darth.

Darth, ever tuned a DOHC V6 with the factory ECU running independent throttle bodies, tuned equal length headers, and fully built heads running to 8000rpm on a 94-95 ECU? Well get ready to!

Hurry up and get it driving, I can't wait to read that post!!!

------------------

Ok bring on the gremlins.
It is eating the accesory belt on the outer edge, so I will have to adjust the shims. I am getting a really shrill screachimg sound hopefully due to the belts. The oil pressure guage is pegged all the way over past the highest reading, so I assume it is not functioning? I dont want to run the motor without oil pressure obviously. Any ideas people. How to confirm there is oil getting to the right places?

I've been watching it, but I try and just watch until I have something at least partially useful to say.

As for your second question, too long. Wayyyy too long. It is actually under construction now, I am building the motor. The heads are getting built and "fixed" right now, and I am ready to order the camshafts, but just waiting ont he flow charts from the heads. So I am going to get the motor all together, and I hope to start the swap early next summer, and having it running and running good by the end of next summer. The only thing that would hold me back is money. $600 water pumps don't just hand themselves over...

Lets see if this gigashare works. This is the motor running, no muffler, stock manifolds
Click here to watch 100_0269.MOV

Sounds great!

ah yes the sounds of the dohc with open manifolds.......sounded f'in crazy like some wild dragster.......then i muffled it now it sounds like crap because of cobbles exhaust..........

exhaust pics anyone???

p.s darth and erik are deffinatly recommendations from me. I had eriks plug and ply harness installed within an hour. He routed everything perfectly, even had all the gorunds in one spot. + from me. Darth also burned my computer no problem for a very very good price, not many people can do that for $40, also a + from me.

------------------

86 Fiero SE 3.4 DOHC 4 speed
its the luminero?

[This message has been edited by boostedbird (edited 08-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by t76racer: Ok bring on the gremlins. It is eating the accesory belt on the outer edge, so I will have to adjust the shims. I am getting a really shrill screachimg sound hopefully due to the belts. The oil pressure guage is pegged all the way over past the highest reading, so I assume it is not functioning? I dont want to run the motor without oil pressure obviously. Any ideas people. How to confirm there is oil getting to the right places?

I think that some of these engines (well mine at least, 95 from a cutlass supreme) have an oil pressure switch, not a pressure sender so the oil pressure gauge is either 'on' or 'off'. I'f anyone knows of a suitable sender replacement I'd be interested to know.

------------------
Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

Well I worked on the car some today. I am still having a problem with the oil pressure guage pegging, but I will try another sender tomorrow. I tried the manual guage from work and my luck it doesnt work. I did turn it over while the sender was out and it did make a violent mess!

I tired to scan the computer, but all I got was " no communication with ALDL" or " waiting for communication"
I was improvising and used x for the vin to get the 3.4 and p for a1993 anyone have any problems like this that can help me out. I want to take it for a spin really bad but I would like to know what the check engine light means.
Anyways her is my solution for the throttle cable. I bought these "cable stops" from NAPA they are the exact size as the slot for the original cable. They have a screw going through the middle to tighten the cable

All you have to do is cut the fiero end off put it through the hole, out the other side fit it and tighten the screw.

Oh and here are my A/C hoses. I did like Darth and had them made custom with new hoses

Well I worked on the car some today. I am still having a problem with the oil pressure guage pegging, but I will try another sender tomorrow. I tried the manual guage from work and my luck it doesnt work. I did turn it over while the sender was out and it did make a violent mess!

I tired to scan the computer, but all I got was " no communication with ALDL" or " waiting for communication"
I was improvising and used x for the vin to get the 3.4 and p for a1993 anyone have any problems like this that can help me out. I want to take it for a spin really bad but I would like to know what the check engine light means.
Anyways her is my solution for the throttle cable. I bought these "cable stops" from NAPA they are the exact size as the slot for the original cable. They have a screw going through the middle to tighten the cable

All you have to do is cut the fiero end off put it through the hole, out the other side fit it and tighten the screw.

Oh and here are my A/C hoses. I did like Darth and had them made custom with new hoses

you are going to have to repin the ALDL port to match the 3.4 ecm - when you plug a scantool in and tell it what car its looking at it will be looking for a different pinout than the fieros - I had to do this and scantool works great now - I also got a shrill noise from the belt area on mine - I assumed it was the waterpump and picked up a new one - haven't actually installed it yet to find out.

Keep it up! great thread and incentive. Now if I could just figure out how to get PAID for doing my swap.........lol

Kohburn,

You are right I did need to move the orange wire in the "E" pin location on the Fiero ALDL port to the "M" location. Thaks for the info +4u Erik to the rescue again for telling me which pin to move. Thanks
Now the scanner works on the car. I quickly tracked down my code 15 to find the CTS sensor unplugged. DUH! Now the car runs alot smoother with instant throttle resonse and even sounds better.

Kohburn, Are you using a Fiero oil pressure sender? My connector is for the Z34. I havent changed the sender yet though so we will see.

Fiero308, Thaks for the compliment. I am having a good time just tinkering let alone when I get it on the road.

Now the (hopefully last gremlin before I drive it) I am still getting a intermitten shrill, high pitch schreeching chirp. It sounds like it is comming from the flywheel area or tranny area.
Now my mechanic friend that is helping me thinks maybe there is no pilot bearing installed on the crankshaft? It was an automatic motor and he says maybe it needs one. Or some bushing on there or the flywheel or input shaft around there somewhere I dont remember but anyone have an idea as to what it could be or if this explanation makes sense?

88 Fiero 4-cyl oil pressure sender is the one to use. It does connect to the 3.4 DOHC connector.

Thanks for the info Steven. I will get the sender tomorrow.
I blead the clutch to se if the screeching noise would go away, and it did.
I then drove the car for the very first time. It was short lived because I cannot get it into any gear when the motor is running. Now I do have a crappy master cylinder, it leaks under the pedals, and there is some kind of sludge in the bottom of the resivior.?
I am using a brand new Spec clutch with throw out bearing. I am going to bleed the clutch really good tomorrow.
I start it in gear with the clutch pedal pessed in and let out and it moves and sounds fine. I can get it out of gear just not back in gear. Pedal feels pretty week to but it always did.

Anymore suggestions advice, anyone had this problem and knows the cure.

quote Originally posted by t76racer: Thanks for the info Steven. I will get the sender tomorrow. I blead the clutch to se if the screeching noise would go away, and it did. I then drove the car for the very first time. It was short lived because I cannot get it into any gear when the motor is running. Now I do have a crappy master cylinder, it leaks under the pedals, and there is some kind of sludge in the bottom of the resivior.? I am using a brand new Spec clutch with throw out bearing. I am going to bleed the clutch really good tomorrow. I start it in gear with the clutch pedal pessed in and let out and it moves and sounds fine. I can get it out of gear just not back in gear. Pedal feels pretty week to but it always did. Anymore suggestions advice, anyone had this problem and knows the cure.

I think you already answered your own question - its the master cyl - replace it

yup, sure sounds like the master is not a keeper. While you are at it, if you are NOT replacing the bleeder screw at the slave, I suggest you DO. I bet a lot of 'air in the line' probs come from that cheap little culprit right there. They rust and corrode and (I think) can't HELP but leak......

so air being thinner than brake fluid, it is easier to 'suck it in' even if the brake fluid is a bit too thick to push out. A $1 fix or at least peace of mind.

And you'll want to flush all that crud out of the system anyway so that is the prime time to do it.
could play the sound file; req'd a plug in I guess, but I'll wait for the finished version anyway. What is your time frame now?
I am so stupidly busy with work now that I have to live my swap thru others. (sigh......)

Kohburn ,Yeah I know I need to replace that master cyl, but I was hoping to be able to bleed it enough to atleasr take for a spin.

Fiero308, It might be easier to just download the file then play it. I had an apiontment to get the exhaust done this week but, it has been pushed back to next week, because, get this there is a turbo Fiero in there first. I dont ever even see any Fieros around here. Coincedence I guess.

Hey guy's I am still here, just been busy. I just skimmed through my own thread and boy do I make alot of spelling errors.
I got past the clutch problem, I bought new master and slave cylinders. I used the positive pressure bleeding system described by numerous members and it felt great until I lost all clutch on the way home the other day. I guess I will be bleeding it again tommorrow.
Heres a pic of it at home:

The motor looks great in there. It does rub the decklid on top of the engine lift strap, but not by much.
My front dogbone is holding up fine for now, it doesnt move enough to touch the backside of the engine bay, but I havent really got up on the throttle yet either. I still plan on making another in the regular location.
Sorry I havent posted in a couple of weeks but like I said I have been busy. I am busy with my friends race car, we race at a local track. We got in a wreck(everyones ok) but it took alot of my Fiero time to rebuild the car. So I will post the things I have done since then, as I remeber them.
Here are some pics (something interesting to make up for my inatention) of the race car. It is a "Modified" (turns left)


This car is easier to work on than a Fiero but I am tired of taking it apart and putting it together. J/K Terry

quote Originally posted by t76racer: It works really good with the pressure bleeder hooked up, so good infact that I have considered rigging up a system that will always keep it under pressure.

Some have installed a Wilwood residual pressure valve on the clutch line leading from the master cylinder. It apparently makes a big difference because it keeps pressure on that AWFUL seal to keep it pressed against the sides of the bore. I would do this in a heartbeat if I weren't worried about the TOB being pushed into contact with the pressure plate constantly, causing premature failure of it.. Perhaps those with the residual pressure valve will chime in with their experiences in TOB longevity, and how many psi their valves keep in the line.

Ok an update:
Thanks for the idea Steven, I know have the clutch working great, infact the best pedal feel I have ever had in this car.
I have started another thread to cover this so that others searching can get the info easily, but since it is part of the build of this car I will cover it here too.

I got a new master and slave to fix the problem. (cant get into gear). Well the new parts did not work at all, (or for me). The new slave broke when I was bleeding it. I dont think the master worked out of the box.

In fustration I searched the forum and came up with a zillion threads on clutch disengagement. I did not want to keep buying defective parts, and in light of all the threads on these problems, I wanted to find a another solution.
After the new parts didnt work I thought well the only thing I didnt repalce was the line. So if i am going to repalce the line I might as well just replace everything with new (and hopefully better stuff).
Steven Snyder posted about the residual pressure valve, and got me to thinking. The race in the post above has a Tilton master cylinder, looks just like ours.(fiero)
I called the shop and they didnt have a Tilton in stock but did have a Wilwood, that was basically the same. Wilwood has a good reputaion in the aftermarket(racing).
So here it is, comes with different fitting to remote mount it in different ways.

The Wilwood MC has a threaded pushrod that is 5/16 , 24 fine thread. I cut my original pushrod and threaded it the same, added a coupler and here it is.

The Willwood MC does need a minor mod, the fiero MC flange has the bolt hole offset, this one doesnt. One side of the flange is a perfect fit, as is the actual body of the cylinder, it fits perfectly into the firewall. The other side of the flange, the bolt wants to come through on the outer edge of the bolt hole. A little meterial is removed from the flange's bolt hole and it fits perfectly. This is a very minor amount of grinding trust me. Then you simply bolt it in!

I added two large washers to the flange on the side I had to grind, to spread the load, as the bolt hole on that side is now open. Its rock solid though.

I then took the slave to a local hose company, "EVCO" and the fitting from the MC. They matched them up with the correct fittings and made me 10' of pressure tested brake hose.

I simply ran the line in the same brakets as the hard line .
It workes great the MC has its own seperate bleeder and the fittings work great. The first time I blead it the pedal was instantly firm, so I thought it was done. This was not the case though. After being pissed for another day thinking that my efforts were wasted, I decided to bleed it again. This time I used the MC's bleeder and the regular steps to bleed the slave and..... It works great now.
I was concerned that it might push the release bearing to far though, (it was clicking before I blead it again) but now it feels pretty much normal.

Great solution!!!

I may have to do that, thanks for the write up!

------------------

"Item might be dangerous and cause death, do not use in a real car."
"Proper capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse."

Wow, that is a great solution! How much did that MC end up costing you?

That is too cool! I can't believe it fits with such minor mods.
What's the bore on that thing and where can I buy one?

quote Originally posted by ltlfrari: I think that some of these engines (well mine at least, 95 from a cutlass supreme) have an oil pressure switch, not a pressure sender so the oil pressure gauge is either 'on' or 'off'. I'f anyone knows of a suitable sender replacement I'd be interested to know.

What I did on my swap was put a T in line and run the oem to the ecm then I ran the oil sending unit that cam with my gages to the gage.

Hey guys, Crzyone , the MC costs $63.00 at the race shop in town Probably cheaper on the net. It has readily available rebuild kits too. This was the one that they use on the "modified" cars around here for thier clutch, but at Wilwood's web site their is alot of different sizes. This one is a 3/4" bore Steven it's actually for brakes but they do have other sizes available specificaly for clutches.

It really does work great, and by the way it was like $25.00 cheaper, than the oem original replacement.

355, thanks for the info, I used a 1988 Fiero sender and it works great now.
Aaron, get it started already!

I'm back, I know its been a few weeks but things have been slow. Waiting on the exhaust shop to fit me in and the end of the race season has put the project on hold.
Oh yeah, the clutch thing too. I have tallked to "Spec" and they are sending me a new disk. They were really helpfull and did not give me any hassle over it. I still think it sucks that they even sent the wrong one but they do have great cusomer service.

Here are some pics of my current project, opinions are welcome! so go ahead and express yourself , I do.

I cut the bottom of the trunk out to fit some custom exhaust. I also cut some of the bumper cover to go along with the look I am trying to acheive.
These are just preliminary, I do plan on fabing in a shorter trunk and a custom rear fascia.

Here is where we might start to run into problems. I do want this car to stand out, I want it to be unique and stylish (it already is, but) I want to over come the general opinion about the Fiero. So I want people to se this car and say wow thats really nice. My first Ideas are to make it look more modern and custom, without over doing it. So I originally came from the "import" crowd (another story) so I naturally had to fall into the sameness of todays tuners and bought some BIG *ss fart cannons.

These are your typical "fart can, coffe can" whatever you call them. Except these are Huge, they messure over 12" on the muffler body 27" long with big tips( can't remember the size. Oh yea and way overpriced.
Now use our imaginations, I plan on custom rear fascia and some bigger, shinier rims. I would like to have an impressive rear end to look at, because thats the angle the competition will see! Thus the big shiny mufflers.

But I ask myself ....Form.....Function......or ..... Function.....Form.

[This message has been edited by t76racer (edited 09-12-2005).]

i just want to see how you make those things fit back there

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: i just want to see how you make those things fit back there

ditto....... you mentioned maybe chopping the trunk...... is that sooner or later?
signed:
-watching (with barely suppressed jealousy)

quote Originally posted by fiero308: ditto....... you mentioned maybe chopping the trunk...... is that sooner or later? signed: -watching (with barely suppressed jealousy)

the trunk looks chopped to me

Well fellas, I did chop the trunk, chop chop!. I chopped it out hoping to get those mufflers to fit.
They of course don't, I think Kohburn knew this too. LOL Anyways I did think that I would get some "ricer" type comments over the selection. Seems we have some actuall gentlemen here.

I am kind of glad that they dont fit. In preliminary fitting they don't match the body lines of the car. The rear fascia has more straight angles , and lines. I do plan on grafting some custom rear fascia pieces later. But still want to keep the body close to the original Fiero shape, and the overly large round body of these mufflers IMHO does not go with the lines of the car.
Also these mufflers would decrease ground clearance quite a bit too. They would also stick out to far to get them in there.

Then there is the "form over function" bit. I do like the "form" of these but I dont like the excesively loud tone I would get from these. (dual exhaust with a X over and straight through fiberglass packed mufflers, oh and no catalytic converters. To loud for me anyway's.

So on to the solution: 1 I want dual exhaust with a cross over.
2 I want it to NOT be to loud, but sound "menacing"
3 I want it to have the function and still have the form.

So it has to look good and perform good. What if I take more of a race car approach, and then make it look "showie" (is that a word)