Well, one of the other new things at FastFieros to work on is EPS... I have purchased a couple of units and they are on the way to my shop now. EPS is growing in numbers in released vehicles from the big 3. Research into which ones will fit the Fiero the best, and which ones do not require the BCM and PCM to talk to the control modules will be key.

One of the units I have coming to my shop today...

and the research on "who" is making these units and what they will look like.. http://www.fastfieros.com/tech/eps__electric_power_steering.htm

This unit will be going into the EcoTec powered 2.0 Supercharged 5 speed car. Why? It comes from the Saturn Ion and it will need to talk to the BCM. Not sure what they are going to talk about just yet, but if I can make it a standalone unit, I will.

Loyde

Ooo That would be cool. I take it fiero's dont have Power Steering? Thats one thing I'm confused about lol.

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quote Originally posted by theratdude64: Ooo That would be cool. I take it fiero's dont have Power Steering? Thats one thing I'm confused about lol.

Hi all,

No havey power steering in fieros...None of the cars ever manufactured came with power steering, though they did come with rack and pinion (sp)...............This is a talked about feature that comes up every once in awhile and though I find to each their own, I just don't understand the need for one in a fiero... Even if it's your daily driver.....This will be one mod never featured in any of my fiero(s).........

edit: Way to go Loyde!!! Keepin us on our toes!!

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 10-25-2005).]

Good luck with this one, Loyde ... I think you're gonna have a lot of interest

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 10-25-2005).]

Excellent! Mo' power (steering) to ya'!

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Praise the Lowered!
Read Nealz Nuze!

Loyde, i would have really liked to meet you when you were in KC a few months ago.

keep working on this.

I would guess is needs to talk to the PCM to get the vehicle speed to adjust the sensativity of the stearing assist

For some reason there are two types of power steering people on here...

Those that want it, and those that don't want us to have it.

True a STOCK Fiero probably doesn't need it, but if you are running 17", 18" or larger wheels on the front, trust me, you NEED it.

I'm very interested!!!

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88 GT T-Top, 88 Fastback Chop-top (Archie #14), 1984 Indy, and 88 Chop Top T-top
Firebird Interior Installation Website

quote Originally posted by jscott1: For some reason there are two types of power steering people on here... Those that want it, and those that don't want us to have it.

Sounds like almost anything government-related.

quote True a STOCK Fiero probably doesn't need it, but if you are running 17", 18" or larger wheels on the front, trust me, you NEED it. I'm very interested!!!

I'm always interested. Even better if it can be made easier or cheaper than the rack/pump retrofit.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Praise the Lowered!
Read Nealz Nuze!

I ordered my first Fiero directly from the factory in late 1985. I was very particular about what I wanted. NO sunroof. (I thought, and still think, it ruins the lines of the car. You couldn't find one on the lot without a sunroof.) I wanted an SE with a V6. (You got the SE, and added all the GT options and you saved $300 bucks.) I got an eye roll from the dealer for just about every eccentric request. Then I demanded NO power steering. He laughed at me.

What? It's not like I asked for a trailer hitch. (Oddly, you can get those.)

I think power steering runs the feel of the car, it seems to numb the wheel so you dont get as much information from the front wheels, and in a Fiero I see no need for it, Ive got 215/50/17s in the front, and I can turn it easliy at a dead stop. But I see no problem in having it available to anyone who wants it. I had thought about the colum mounted units when I first heard about them, but only so I could do something new and be the first. It seems that if nothing else, you could gut the electronics, and rewire it to work with a more basic setup, im sure like everything in new cars, its horribly over engineered

Would you be mating this to the stock Fiero rack and pinion or adapting the Ion R&P? I ask because if I'm going to the trouble of PS (and I am), one of the goals will be quicker steering.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: For some reason there are two types of power steering people on here... Those that want it, and those that don't want us to have it.

aint that the truth.

it's not high on my list, but i would be intersted

Power Steering would be good for autocross. You can manage those quick turns more easily.

quote Originally posted by sspeedstreet: Would you be mating this to the stock Fiero rack and pinion or adapting the Ion R&P? I ask because if I'm going to the trouble of PS (and I am), one of the goals will be quicker steering.

Judging by the pictures, this particular PS set up is mated to the steering column itself and assists from there. If I am correct, then Lloyde would be working on how to put this electric PS motor onto a stock Fiero steering column and the rack itself would not be touched at all. Doing it this way makes the conversion WAY cheaper and WAY less work for anyone installing the set up.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Judging by the pictures, this particular PS set up is mated to the steering column itself and assists from there. If I am correct, then Lloyde would be working on how to put this electric PS motor onto a stock Fiero steering column and the rack itself would not be touched at all. Doing it this way makes the conversion WAY cheaper and WAY less work for anyone installing the set up.

Well, this is true.. The power unit is contained 100% to the column. I did however purchase the rack also.. Just wanted it in case I had some great idea beyond this steering unit..

So, I can pretty much tell the motor is going to be in the way of the petal assembly. Never like that petal assembly anyway. I will build a better one. It will all be here Friday !

Looking at the schematics I have from the service manuals, I am thinking I can just tell this thing I am going XX miles per hour all the time and see how the steering feels from a stand still to moving 100MPH..

OR, maybe user defined. I can put a potentiometer on the thing and dial in what I want it to feel like. That would be pretty useful on autoX.. Trouble with GM's methods, is there is 8 modes to the power steering. It changes based on XX changes. I cant find the documentation that indicates what all 8 modes are. I know the ETC has 8 modes also. Parking lot mode is one of them. You set there and pat your foot petal real light, and the ETC knows you are parking and makes the throttle blade react less to accidental aggressive petal movement. I am sure there's a parking lot mode in the steering.

Loyde

quote Originally posted by jscott1: For some reason there are two types of power steering people on here... Those that want it, and those that don't want us to have it. True a STOCK Fiero probably doesn't need it, but if you are running 17", 18" or larger wheels on the front, trust me, you NEED it. I'm very interested!!!

this is a VERY true point. even just my 17's with 215's on the front is a noticeable difference. it doesn't both me that much, but i'm a 21 yr old male in pretty decent shape, i couldn't imagine dry or even low speed turning often if i were much weaker. and that's only a 215! i mean it's kinda sad when the lack of steering comfort is the limiting factor in tire selection isn't it?

that being said, i am on the side for no power steering, for me of course, i think it's great to have products out there, it's one less reason to NOT own a fiero. which always helps when dealing with naysayers. personally i just really like the feedback and feel you get at speed without power steering. i think GM was really onto something with the original design, fully activated at low speeds, almost non-existant at highway speeds, that's something even I would go for

Well said, Jon. Don't forget about us city slickers trying to maneuver through parking garages and tight parking spaces. Believe me, there are times when a stock fiero needs power steering (or maybe I just need bigger arms)

quote Originally posted by pavo_roddy: Hi all, No havey power steering in fieros...None of the cars ever manufactured came with power steering, though they did come with rack and pinion (sp)

Not actually true, some 88's got delivered with power steering from factory but it was recalled before they were supposed to be sold. Some did make it out the door and a couple of months ago, a few units went up on Ebay complete with manuals.

http://www.fiero.net/showroom/steering.html

Somewhere in archives is info from latest sales, I can't find links to completed auctions on Ebay.

Any news???

I am seriously interested in power steering without having to go through the geometry reconfiguration that replacing the rack entails. I will be watching this one closely.

I purchased a whole 2005 Cobalt SS. It has 1651 miles. I will be taking this apart for the steering and the powertrain. It could be Feb 06, it could be May 06. Customers come first. I present my personal thoughts about projects and hopefully someone will like the idea and become the customer of the project. I do have a guy in CaliFornia that wants the EcoTec 2.0L Supercharged with the 5 speed, and the power steering added possibly as the project developes.

So, maybe soon, maybe later.. Just to many installs here right now for the 3800SC.

Loyde

Loyde.....I don't know how relevant this is, but I'll throw it out anyway.

I manage a rental car agency for a living, and we feature GM cars (I'll let you guess which agency )

The Pontiac G6, the Malibu, the Equinox, and many others use EPS. The strange thing is, we received a G6 GT model the other day, and the EPS is MUCH stiffer feeling (stopped or slow speed) than the base model G6. I assume GM programmed it this way so that the GT would have better road feel.

I'm wondering if they used a different EPS system in the G6, or just reprogrammed the existing one. The GT model steering lacks the "fingertip" ease at slow speeds that the base models have.

At any rate, kudos to you for furthering the Fiero cause. Oh....and put me in line when the kits are available.

[This message has been edited by Frizlefrak (edited 01-05-2006).]

You have listed the same cars I have run across as what GM intented to release with EPS. There are different versios of EPS that were to be released. The links at the top of this thread lists the various types, and who is making them for GM...

One version what was to release this year 06 is to have the EPS rack type instead of the column type. Cobalt and Ion have the column type. The column type can be integrated to the Fiero because the electrics are easy to overcome. GM appears to have all the programming in the steering module on this unit. It only needs VSS to know what speed the car is going to run in one of the 8 modes that I have read is programmed into it.

I have a Ion 04 steering unit now that is out of the car since I purchased this with the engine and transmission I got in October. The steering moves very freely with no power on it. I have also tried my Cobalt with the engine running, and the engine off. It moves about the same as a Fiero with the engine off, and nice and smooth with the engine running. The electric motor inside the car does not make any noise.

Loyde

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: The electric motor inside the car does not make any noise. Loyde

This was what surprised me the most when we first got these cars and realized they had EPS. I sort of expected some kind of noise out of the unit....but they are silent.

We have a fleet of about 800 cars. So far, only one EPS problem. The vehicle is an HHR, and it kept blowing the large fuse for the EPS. The tech finally located a short and corrected it, problem solved. Nothing mechanical yet. The system appears to be very reliable.

I also like the fact that other than a slightly larger draw on the charging system, there is no horsepower penalty using these.

Keep up the good work Loyde.

bump

Adding this to my favorites. Power steering would be real nice in the parking lot. Switching from 205 to 215's is noticable as far as steering effort.

Did I kill this thread? Any updates?

Are these things speed sensative and if so, will they accept the Fiero VSS input?

Great Project with big challenges

1. EPS is the rage with low mass vehicles to provide additional fuel savings
a. variable assist via vehicle speed and wheel sensor input without engine running.
b. tailored to specific vehicle options, etc - tires, engine, sport, family sedan via computer program.
c. two basic styles - rack assist / std column or as shown column assist with manual rack.

2. Challenges

Packaging the column assist, major tear up of vehicle dash structure/ Brake pedals
Electronic and wiring interfaces
Software program updated of work with Fiero rack ratio
column lock/ key

3. Safety Steering
a. The Fiero was reported to be the first production Vehicle to have passed barrier tests at 40 mph before air bags!
b The Energy Absorbing steering column is intergral to the Fiero for collapes distance and load.
c. The electric column assist have air bags with the E/A column from donor vehicle.
d. Air bags are tailored to specific Vehicle by inflation pressure & timing.
e. Steering shaft ultimate - Fiero 15 inch 19-20 inch tires now!
f. revised computer software for Fiero ? software does a Bill Gates while in a turn at high speed ?

4. Great challenge good luck, PS test drive it on a closed track !