I'm just about to complete my modified 2.8L but I'm already considering a swap that I believe has not yet been done. I'd considering swapping engine and auto transmission from a Ford Taurus SHO. Mostly because in my opinion it is the PERFECT engine for the car due to its high rev capability. GM offers nothing even close in a V6. The swap would also include the suspension if possible. Mounting the entire craddle into the fiero with mods. This would replace the drivetrain as well as possibly. I'm always open to suggestions. I believe the swap would take a considerable amount of time to pull off, but would be a one off with RPM's to spare, probably turning 8,000 - 9,000 rpms... BTW. the Taurus is not as wide, so if the suspension could be swapped also then much wider tires could be fitted. The brakes would also be larger. The only real problem I see currently is the lack of rear emergency brake which I am sure could be overcome. Sound interesting to anyone else?
------------------ Virginia is for horsepower lovers....
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05:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4546 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Yay! Another VA guy, and right next to me in NPN too.
I thought SHO motors were V-8's? GM has NOTHING in the V-6 market? Let me know if you ever wanna ride in my SC3800 fiero, then you'll probably change your mind .
Cross breeding that drastically is asking for some pretty harsh engineering problems as well as digging deep into your wallet. You could probably spend the same amount and just swap in a LS2 or a nicely modded 3800.
[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 11-14-2005).]
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06:12 PM
FieroMan86 Member
Posts: 66 From: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Oct 2004
Sounds real interesting to me. I used to have a 1st gen probe, and wanted one of these bad boys for my probe. I think way more work is involved than its worth (just my 2 cents), when you can, for a helluva lot less effort or money, build a 3.4TDC to be just as powerful with the same RPM range, and a Quad 4 has a really high redline, and is in my opinion better suited for the fiero. If you wanted to pull it off, I don't think there is any way in hell the Taurus front cradle would go into a fiero body, without some serious modification. You'd need an aftermarket ECM because the Ford EEC system is not compatible with the GM computer system, so you could not bridge the two together, or use two ECMs, because you'd need to power the electronics for the rest of the car. Also, where you will have trouble is that the transmission is a Mazda transmission, and the one on my probe was not cable shifted like the fiero's, it was shifted with a rod and a small u-joint. The shift input was on the back side of the transmission, and in a fiero, would face the wrong way.
If you wanted to do it, your best bet would be to custom mount the engine and its transaxle to the fiero cradle with custom axles, and a stand alone engine management system. The shifter would take some ironing out (probably would require removal of the gas tank and relocation, probably a fuel cell in the front compartment), and of course, a custom exhaust. These motors are very cool. I have seen them take twin turbos, and they make a lot of power in very high revs. Wierd that they are made by yamaha. Of the same year (1989), the 3.0 SHO rivals the corvette 5.7 in terms of horsepower per cubic inch. Good luck, what a loaded topic.
Paul
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06:16 PM
vafierro Member
Posts: 349 From: Newport News, VA Registered: Oct 2005
What I should have said was, GM doesn't make a comparable engine in my opinion. The SHO V6 was designed by Yamaha, not Ford and is good for well over 300 horsepower and is very light. I don't think GM makes anything that revs as high. I just like the engine and think its a good match for the car, despite it being a different manufacturer. I think the 3800 DOHC motor is close, but I'd rather go where no man has gone before if possible. OH, by the way I'd love to have a ride in the 3800, maybe you'll change my mind? Let me know if you want to get together sometime, but I'll warn you, my garage is a mess right now!
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06:18 PM
FieroMan86 Member
Posts: 66 From: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Oct 2004
never got really far I have written to this member just last night to see if they just got fed up with other members and quit the build thread or just quit all together. I think the SHO engine would rock but in terms of ease and comperable performance the DOCH 3.4 would seem like less of a headache. I would say do it though, but you will hear a lot on any of the SHO forums that the trannys are weak espically the automatics.
Although the 3.4 TDC would be easier, it's not really the same. The SHO V6 makes more power with a smaller motor, not to mention it just sounds awesome. As for the tranny, the 5spd isn't too bad for durability, except for the diff, which is the weak link, but that can be fixed with LSD (quaife makes/made one). As for the rod shifter, the early cars had cable shifters, which most guys ditched for the rod setup, so I'm sure if you asked nicely on a SHO forum, you could probably land one for next to nothing. As for engine control, there is a guy running one in a dune buggy over on www.shoforum.com , so I'm sure he could be of assistance. How do I know all this? I currently have a 95 5 spd (forgive me father for I have sinned ).
Edit cause I can't type
[This message has been edited by SpeedDemon (edited 11-14-2005).]
I've heard from mechanics that the tranny's like to go out. And I woudn't say that "GM offers nothing close in a v6". They do have the 3800 SC and 3.4 TDC/DOHC.
But if you like it, go for it! I haven't heard of anyone else with one. Just watch out with your transmission choice!
Although the 3.4 TDC would be easier, it's not really the same. The SHO V6 makes more power with a smaller motor, not to mention it just sounds awesome.
Easier doesn't even put in into perspective. Buy a wiring harness from Erik, cut a hinge, and it is a drop in swap. All you have to do is hook up coolant lines, fuel lines, and exhaust. THe 3.4 DOHC also has a really nice tone at WOT. It is a deep growl, and IMHO much deeper and meaner than that of the SHO. The SHO makes just 5hp more. The final potential is higher on the 3.4, as a result of it having more displacement.
The SHO is a wonderfully tuned technially advanced motor, but it isn't any better than the 3.4l DOHC. The only benefit IMHO would be uniqueness, but I'd like to see it for sure!
------------------ "all pushrod motor are better than the dohc because it has less rotational mass" -rick17, MyMonte member, owner of a 3100 Monte Carlo LS
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02:47 AM
PFF
System Bot
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
and by the way, the SHO transmissions were NEVER a mazda unit. ever. MTXIV is what they got, and it is not a mazda unit. a mazda unit prolly wouldnt hold up for **** .....
even tho my v8 is going to get a mazda transaxle......
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12:44 PM
Old Lar Member
Posts: 13798 From: Palm Bay, Florida Registered: Nov 1999
Well, so much for being a one off project. Its apparently been done before and maybe it is NOT wortht the trouble. Some good bench racing going on here though, and that's always good. I posted this in an effort to get some feedback, springboard if you will, on whether it was a good swap or not. Granted I had the help of Ford engine management engineer, and I am an engineer with over ten years experience in design, but maybe its just not worth the effort -- ESPECIALLY if someone else has done it.
Actually, now that you mention it, I seem to recall a SHO powered, fiero based, GT40 kit car.... So yeah, not entirely unique. On that note, what GM motors haen't been swapped into fieros? (ignoring diesels)
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10:36 PM
AaronZ34 Member
Posts: 2322 From: Colorado Springs, CO Registered: Oct 2004
hey if you want some-what of a challenge and want DOHC with rev capabilities, check out the newer 3.6 DOHC 60-Degree V6.
3.6L Displacement Completely new design introduced in Buick Rendezvous Mounted transversely (like a FWD engine) yet powering an AWD drive train. Aluminum engine block & Cylinder Heads Four Cam Phasing Full chain drive valvetrain system Aluminum Pistons With Floating Wrist Pins & Oil-Jet Capability Forged Steel Crankshaft Sinter-Forged Connecting Rods Structural Aluminum Oil Pan with Steel Baffles different from RWD version Dual-Stage Variable Aluminum Intake Manifold Advanced Sequential Port Fuel Injection Electronic Throttle Control with Integrated Cruise Control Coil on Plug Ignition Engine-Mounted Micro-Hybrid Engine Control Module Optimized Exhaust Manifolds with Closed-Coupled Catalytic Converters Fully Isolated Composite Camshaft Covers Outstanding Noise, Vibration and Harshness Control Horsepower 245 Torque 235 Compression 10.2:1
Sounds good to me, the RWD version of the engine makes 260 HP and it doesnt look like much is different. If your looking for something unique with that DOHC flavor, that might be the engine to do. When your done with it will ya tell me how hard it was and any usefull tips so that i can copy your swap?
By the way, i think that the 3.4 DOHC can be built to match or out-do the SHO V-6. A few things would help. the 60degreev6.com store sells lightweight lifters, which would get you towards 8,000 RPMs, with valve spring shims hitting 8,000 RPMS shouldnt be a problem. Then throw into the mix, headers, cams, ported heads, and custom intake, or just the 96-97 style intakes, and you should have no problems hitting 300+hp. There is a guy on the 60degree.com forum running 325 HP at the wheels behind an auto with a single turbo and at home tuning. He still has an all stock engine with 150K on it. Theres another guy that just dynoed 257 wheel HP with basically a few bolt ons and ported heads.
To clear up any confusion, the SHO's did come with both v-6's and v-8's, the later (more jelly-bean body-styled taurus) had the v-8's. And the 3.8 liter that GM makes is NOT dohc, and would take considerable mods to pull 8000 RPMS.
I like the SHO v-6's i wish that GM would have made the 3.4 DOHC with variable intakes and a valvetrain that can take more abuse. Oh well, I guess that I can dream on.. the 3.6 DOHC is looking pretty good though.
Originally posted by vafierro: Well, so much for being a one off project. Its apparently been done before and maybe it is NOT wortht the trouble. Some good bench racing going on here though, and that's always good. I posted this in an effort to get some feedback, springboard if you will, on whether it was a good swap or not. Granted I had the help of Ford engine management engineer, and I am an engineer with over ten years experience in design, but maybe its just not worth the effort -- ESPECIALLY if someone else has done it.
Actually, at least two others have done it. There is a guy with a shop at the Buttonwillow Raceway with a SHO powered (5 speed) Fiero sitting in the back of his shop. However, he may not have completed it yet.
Originally posted by SpeedDemon: Actually, now that you mention it, I seem to recall a SHO powered, fiero based, GT40 kit car.... So yeah, not entirely unique. On that note, what GM motors haen't been swapped into fieros? (ignoring diesels)
I haven't seen or heard of anyone using the Buick/Rover (all) aluminum V8. The early version was 215ci (about 3500 cc). Rover bought the engine from GM in the early/mid 60's. Among other cars, it was installed in the Triumph TR8, and eventually used in the Land Rover. As the engine was developed over about 30 years, it ended production as a 4.6 litre V8. (Apparently the early Buick version could be stroked to 300ci by using a Buick 300 crank.) More importantly, during the time that Rover developed the engine, the distributor was moved from the front of the engine to the rear (like SBC) which appears to have shortened the entire package quite a bit. I don't think the early version with the distributor placed in front of the block would fit a Fiero, but the 4.6 version has some definite possibilities. For additional info, see: See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine
------------------ FierOmar
[This message has been edited by FierOmar (edited 11-16-2005).]
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12:03 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4546 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Originally posted by vafierro: OH, by the way I'd love to have a ride in the 3800, maybe you'll change my mind? Let me know if you want to get together sometime, but I'll warn you, my garage is a mess right now!
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