Reading the post by Capt Fiero and his fuel filter, he says that he poured in the normal 1 liter of Methyl Alcohol before the test and the car passed with flying colors. I haven't heard of this before now.
I have to take my stock 2.8 in for testing here in CA. Does this work everywhere? we get double screwed here in San Diego, have to go to Test Only, and for some reason or other my Formula never made it through on the first go round. Even though the car always has all new tuneup stuff on it prior. This will be the first time with this car and I'd sure like to only go once.

------------------
fasteddie_91932

Supposedly this works pretty well. I've heard stories of the alcohol picking up water and water-soluble gunk from in the tank and screwing up injectors, as well as the alcohol itself being bad for a non-flex-fuel engine. When using any additive, I believe it's best to add this to a nearly empty tank then pump gas in for good mixing

Anyone else have info better about these negative rumors I've heard?

From what I hear, anything with methyl alcohol is bad for the fuel system. Something about drying seals. Maybe thats why there is the two differant kinds of HEET fuel additive. Can't say for sure though.

I don't see how residual (residual meaning a 1qt bottle of MeOH added to a full tank of gas) is going to dry out seals designed to handle fuel.

Sorry Ed for not replying earlier.

It is Methyl hydrate that I use. It is the same stuff in Gas Line Antifreeze. It is used also to remove water from your gas tank. Among other things it is sold as paint thinner.

Yes it removes crude and other debris from your tank. It cleans everything out. Fortunately we have fuel filters for that reason. It is stopped at the filter. There are 2 filters in a Fiero, the larger being the sock in the tank and then the exterior one that we change. The larger sock filter only stops large particles and I have never ever heard of one becoming plugged.

As for the Methyl hydrate, it displaces some of the fuel when burned, it burns cooler, than the gas, this reduces your NOX readings. It burns odorless, and colorless as well. As far I know the way it works for emissions testing is we are rated on a parts per million scale and this alchole displaces some of the emissions that are being tested for giving you a better overall rating from your tail pipe.

I hope someone with more chemical background can fill in the rest of the info, but 1 liter is 1/40th the tank of gas in a Fiero, as it holds roughly 40 liters, so that is what about 2% give or take. The Mohawk gas that I use is I think 10% grain alchole already.

Here is my emissions test scan sheet.

I have to pass emissions test readings for the engine size my car had. Which was a 2.8 I am running a Fuel Injected 4.9 Caddy now.

The results kinda speak for themselves.

------------------
85GT 5spd ,93 Eldorado 4.9 Dual O2 Custom Chip, Archie Clutch. Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything 245/50/16's Cant wait for Dyno Time and Track Results. Not Your Average 4.9 Capt Fiero Com --- My Over View Cadero Pics Delta Cam and Allante Intake Soon.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: It is Methyl hydrate that I use. It is the same stuff in Gas Line Antifreeze. I hope someone with more chemical background can fill in the rest of the info,

I'm a chemist. What do you mean by Methyl Hydrate? Methanol (MeOH) is the typical ingredient in gas line antifreezes. MeOH is miscible with water which is why it helps remove the water from gas tanks/lines.

As long as the cat, EGR and other stock emissions systems are in place, and the engine is in a good state of tune, you shouldn't have any trouble passing. 4.9s pass in Fieros all the time, here.

------------------
Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Praise the Lowered!
Read Nealz Nuze!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-01-2006).]

quote Originally posted by ditch2: I'm a chemist. What do you mean by Methyl Hydrate? Methanol (MeOH) is the typical ingredient in gas line antifreezes. MeOH is miscible with water which is why it helps remove the water from gas tanks/lines.

Here is a link, to the stuff I use, http://www.recochem.com/english/products/household_solvents/methyl_hydrate.html Its not the same brand, but it is the same stuff.

What I am kinda curious is what does the stuff do when it is mixed with gas and burned in a combustion chamber. I know the final result, but kinda curious as to why it works.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: Here is a link, to the stuff I use, http://www.recochem.com/english/products/household_solvents/methyl_hydrate.html Its not the same brand, but it is the same stuff. What I am kinda curious is what does the stuff do when it is mixed with gas and burned in a combustion chamber. I know the final result, but kinda curious as to why it works.

Ah, it appears that "methyl hydrate" is just another term for methanol, or methy alcohol (MeOH). Just a terminology issue in this case. The only thing I can think of is that the MeOH in the gas causes it to burn slower (like an octane booster). What actually happens in the combustion chamber is a good question. Maybe this causes a different temperature burn? A change in the burn temp could change the composition of the exhaust.

Just a thought. I haven't looked into this myself.

I know that ethanol is frequently added to gasoline blends as an oxygenate, perhaps the methanol serves the same purpose?

JazzMan

I was told by a GM tech some years ago that they often used alcohol in customers cars as opposed to the actual injector cleaner they were supposed to use for injector cleaning. He did state that they had to becareful because it is corrosive to fuel injectors. I would be concerned because it doesn't take much oil contamination in the brake system for example to ruin every seal in it. I have seen it first hand in cars owned by McGyver fans who found themselves low on brake fluid, with a trunk full of motor oil or transmission fluid, the occassional shop idiot has caused a few incidents to.

I would propose someone try a special chip used just for emissions with a modified EGR duty cycle to recirculate more exhaust back into the combustion chamber in place of some of the new air/fuel charge which in theory as far as I have thought it through would produce lower temperature and less new exhaust throughout the rpm range the duty cycle is extended to. I'm theorizing on the premise that if you take a particular intake charge and substitute part of it with gases already spent you do two things; reduce the amount of new emmissions and take some of what is produced from the exhaust volume and send it back through the combustion process again before it reaches the tailpipe. How does that sound?

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 02-01-2006).]

Alcohol can dry out rubber, but, rubber stoppers have been used on test tubes and medical flasks for years with alcohol in them.

Injectors are metal aren't they? Alcohol is stored in metal flasks and tanks.

I just don't see alcohol being hard on injectors. What am I missing here?

Arn

If you were use overuse, and I mean extremely over use cleaner. I was told that it can affect a coating on the windings or something inside the injector.

As for seals, Methyhydrate is stored in a plastic 1L container. (about the size of a 1 quart oil junk for all you yanks)

I have heard of people putting in a full gallon of methylhdrate and mixing it down which would be 1 part alcohol and 9 parts gasoline. This was on a carbed SBC Chevy. The car ran and only ill affect was a plugged filter and I think something got gummed up in the carb. (gunk was already in the carb, just the extreme alcohol concentration, loosened it all up and made it travel as one dirty stream into something.

Did I mention, that at the local gas station. They sell it along side your injector cleaner. They don't specify anything, however when ever someone grabs a bottle and attendant makes a joke about emissions testing as its pretty common to run the stuff on modified cars up here.

Here's a couple more cents for ya...

Methyl Hydrate & methanol are synonyms, but the use of the term methyl hydrate normally equates to 99%+ purity stuff.

Methanol is corrosive to several metals, rubberized components, gaskets, and seals. As well, methanol readily picks up moisture from the atmosphere and hence can be corrosive also due to the fact that it becomes "wet" and allows items to rust (extreme, but possible).

Methanol is comprised of a single carbon & a single oxygen already. It only has about 50% of the energy ratio as compared to gasoline, but it darn near impossible to form carbon monoxide due to it's burn - so... it burns way cleaner than gasoline.

Can 1 liter in a tank make a motor burn THAT clean all by itself when put into 40 liters of gas? I think not, that 4.9 must already be one clean running motor. Of course if that 1 liter is put into only 5 liters of gas.......

The corrosion succeptibility depends on the metal and rubber composition, for example remember how a long time ago rubber bands seemed to last forever, but since companies have discovered how building things to last can affect profit margin, now rubber bands only last a few months. If you run alcohol in your lawnmower engine particularly at a high concentration it will destroy the carbuerator, I discovered that as a kid while experimenting.