What engines do not need an adaptor to the Fiero bellhousing?

-- GM 2.5 liter 4-cyl
-- GM 60-degree V6 (2.8 / 3.1 / 3.4 / 3100 / 3400TDC)
-- Cadillac front wheel drive V8 (4.5 / 4.9 / Northstar)

I might have missed a couple. A couple of those require modification to the bellhousing to clear the starter.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-28-2004).]

Also

GM 1.8l L4
GM 2.0l L4
GM 2.3/2.4 DOHC Quad 4
Caddy 3.5 DOHC V6 Aka Shortstar
GM 3800 / 3800 SC V6
Old's 4.0 Aurora V8
426 Chrysler Hemi! (one can dream right )

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4.9 Caddy in Garage! Car in Driveway! ACK!

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the quad 4 does NOT bolt to the fiero tranny's kento.

Neither does the 90-degree V6 (i.e. 3.8 / 3800 / 4.3).

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Neither does the 90-degree V6 (i.e. 3.8 / 3800 / 4.3).

Yes, the 3800NA and 3800SC motors do bolt up to the fiero bell housing.

quote Originally posted by ShaddowGt: the quad 4 does NOT bolt to the fiero tranny's kento.

UMM OK I thought it Did.

The 4.3 V6 does not bolt up to the Fiero bellhousing. It has the same bolt pattern as a SB Chevy (it's actually a SB chevy minus 2 cylinders).

[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 10-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Kento: 426 Chrysler Hemi! (one can dream right )

Like I would miss that little news flash

My mistake. I was thinking of the RWD 90-degree V6's when I typed that.

Why wouldnt the Quad 4 bolt up? The cars it was in had Getrags.

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*Sponsered by Sport Compact Pro*
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1986 Black Pontiac Fiero GT - Brand New Brakes

So Quad 4 is not direct bolt on? Is the Eco Tech 2.2?

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Neither does the 90-degree V6 (i.e. 3.8 / 3800 / 4.3).

the 3.8L FWD engeins DO bolt right up to the fiero trannies. the 4.3L doesnt

quote Originally posted by skidpro1: So Quad 4 is not direct bolt on? Is the Eco Tech 2.2?

not a direct bolt in, you must use a quad tranny with a quad engine. the ecotec wont bolt either.

yes the quads had getrags, but they have diff bell housings/bolt patterns.

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88 Quad Coupe

MY EMAIL IS: sage14823@hotmail.com
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quote Originally posted by Kento: 426 Chrysler Hemi! (one can dream right )

I wonder how big the 5.7 Hemis are....

quote Originally posted by 84Fiero2M4: Why wouldnt the Quad 4 bolt up? The cars it was in had Getrags.

But Isuzu motors don't bolt up to our Isuzu trannys.

GL

You can also add the GM 2.2L OHV (NON ECOTECH) to the list. 1991 to 2002 Multiport & Sequential Injection
The 2.2 TBI motors would pretty much plug and play into an 87, 88 2.5 with DIS and only require engine mount and exhaust to be custom fitted. Only advantage would be better economy with the TBI. The 1998 to 2002 models were rated at 120 HP and will rev to 7000, mine is currently getting 38 mpg on the highway.

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Rick Longfellow
Formulagator
fierorick64@earthlink.net
rlongfel@ufl.edu
88 Formula 3800 SC 5 speed
84 SE 2002 2.2L 5 speed
85 GT 3.1 Auto

i don't know about the other engines but the northstar and aurora require a little bit of work to get the fourth bell housing bolt set up. the bell housing is the same size and the crank lines up. no adaptor needed.

Also the 1.8/2.0/2.0 turbo bolts up but has the starter in an oddball position, so it's usually easier to use the transmission that came with these cars.

Ok, I find this kinda confusing, so I have extracted the info and this is the result. If I have made a mistake or there are additions please correct from the following list.

GM 2.5 liter 4-cyl
GM 60-degree V6 (2.8 / 3.1 / 3.4 / 3100 / 3400TDC)
Cadillac front wheel drive V8 (4.5 / 4.9 / Northstar) the Northstar and Aurora require a little bit of work to get the fourth bell housing bolt set up. The bell housing is the same size and the crank lines up, no adaptor needed.
Caddy 3.5 DOHC V6 Aka Shortstar
Old's 4.0 Aurora V8
GM 1.8l L4
GM 2.0l L4
GM 2.2L OHV (NON ECOTECH)
GM 3800 / 3800 SC V6
1.8/2.0/2.0 turbo but the starter is in wrong place and it's usually easier to use the transmission that came with these cars.

We should add that the 3.4 needs the starter changed to other side, I believe the 3.1 lumina van motor is a bolt on but don't know if other 3.1 or 3100 have starter on the correct side?

Ok, but does anyone know if the 3.1 Lumina bolts or if starters are on the correct side. Someone here had a jig to redrill starters on the other side, but I don't remember who. It is easy to do with a jig, as I recall.

GM 2.5 liter 4-cyl
GM 60-degree V6 (2.8 / 3.1 / 3.4 / 3100 / 3400TDC) the 3.4 needs the starter changed to other side.
Cadillac front wheel drive V8 (4.5 / 4.9 / Northstar) the Northstar and Aurora require a little bit of work to get the fourth bell housing bolt set up. The bell housing is the same size and the crank lines up, no adaptor needed.
Caddy 3.5 DOHC V6 aka Shortstar.
Old's 4.0 Aurora V8
GM 1.8 liter L4
GM 2.0 liter L4
GM 2.2 liter OHV (non Ecotech)
GM 3800 / 3800 SC V6
1.8/2.0/2.0 liter turbo, but the starter is in wrong place and it's usually easier to use the transmission that came with these cars.

quote Originally posted by skidpro1: We should add that the 3.4 needs the starter changed to other side, I believe the 3.1 lumina van motor is a bolt on but don't know if other 3.1 or 3100 have starter on the correct side?

The FWD minivans had the "right" starter position for a Fiero. The RWD Camaro 3.4 had the starter on the "wrong" side to clear the steering.

Thanks Neptune, I added your info. Anybody else got any changes? Is this a complete list as of 11/1/04? Anybody still have the drill jig?

GM 2.5 liter 4-cyl
GM 60-degree V6 (2.8 / 3.1 / 3.4 / 3100 / 3400TDC) the 3.4 (RWD Camaro)needs the starter changed to other side. FWD minivans had the "right" starter position for a Fiero.
Cadillac front wheel drive V8 (4.5 / 4.9 / Northstar) the Northstar and Aurora require a little bit of work to get the fourth bell housing bolt set up. The bell housing is the same size and the crank lines up, no adaptor needed.
Cadillac 3.5 DOHC V6 aka Shortstar.
Old's 4.0 Aurora V8
GM 1.8 liter L4
GM 2.0 liter L4
GM 2.2 liter OHV (non Ecotech)
GM 3800 / 3800 SC V6
1.8/2.0/2.0 turbo, but the starter is in the wrong place and it's usually easier to use the transmission that came with these cars.

the early grand am 3.0L and 3.3L v6's used the same bolt pattern, and im not 100% sure but i think the 4.3L diesel motors from the mid 80's used our bolt pattern, but like i said im not sure, or maybe they used a th125c with the larger bellhousing.

caddy 4.1L FWD as well as the 4.5L and 4.9L

the olds 4.0L requires the same work as the northstar to install

3.8L from mid 80's 3800 series one two and three, even in supercharged variations.

not sure if any of that helped, but there ya go.

matthew

Thanks m0sh_man, your info is included in the latest. The only part that I have a question about is the 4.3L diesel motor, does anyone else know if these would bolt? Here is the latest tweek on the chart:

GM 4 Cylinder
1.8 liter L4
2.0 liter L4
2.2 liter OHV (non Ecotech)
2.5 liter Iron Duke stock Fiero
1.8/2.0/2.0 Turbo, but the starter is in the wrong place and it's usually easier to use the transmission that came with these cars.

GM 6 Cylinder
60-degree V6 (2.8(Stock Fiero)/3.1/3.4 /3100/3400TDC) the 3.4 (RWD Camaro) needs the starter changed to the other side. FWD minivans had the right starter position for a Fiero.
3800/3800 SC V6 series one two and three.

Cadillac
V8
Cadillac front wheel drive V8 (4.1/4.5/4.9 / Northstar) the Northstar and Aurora require a little bit of work to get the fourth bell housing bolt set up. The bell housing is the same size and the crank lines up, no adaptor needed.
V6
Cadillac 3.5 DOHC V6 aka Shortstar.

Oldsmobile V8
4.0 Aurora V8 same work as the Northstar to install.

Can anyone tell me what the check digit should be for the 2.0 and 2.2 ohv motors so when i check insurance company auction sales listing i can pinpoint which ones to look for.
Also what years of vehicles would these be found in?
Thanks

[This message has been edited by Farmboy_k (edited 12-31-2004).]

what does the term quad four mean to a enigne, how many 2.4 displacment engines did gm make? I would like to try a 2.4 dual overhead cam engine swap next winter but I want to use the fiero tranny, so i was looking to find more info on these engines. And what the heck is a ecotec engine, so is the list final yet and comfirmed? Thanks

The ShortStar never came in a Caddy, and was never called a Caddy engine. They were only used in the Olds Intrigue and Aurora. they were the only engine used in the Intrigue from 99-02 and a base engine in the Aurora from 00-03 with the 4.0 V8 as an upgrade.

quote Originally posted by fiero87GTSB: what does the term quad four mean to a enigne, how many 2.4 displacment engines did gm make? I would like to try a 2.4 dual overhead cam engine swap next winter but I want to use the fiero tranny, so i was looking to find more info on these engines. And what the heck is a ecotec engine, so is the list final yet and comfirmed? Thanks

The quad-4 was a name GM gave to to the early 2.4 twin cam.

The engine had 2.3 litres of displacement, 4 valves per cyl (hence quad-4) and dual camshafts. This engine varied in horsepower by year and application - the highest being a 190hp High-output version available in oldsmobiles with the w41 option. When GM went to the 2.4, horsepower was dropped to 150 and that's pretty well where it remained.
The basic story, it was a good engine that GM decided to build cheap, so there were some early reliability problems.

The ecotec is a new breed of all-aluminum 4cyl. The currently available 2.2 has 140hp and the engines are fairly strong and can be modified. It again has dual-overhead cams and 4valves per cyl but is a completely different beast than the quad-4.

NEITHER of these engines will bolt to the fiero transmission.

From Wikipedia.com:
The Quad 4 (called Twin Cam after 1995) was a DOHC straight-4 automobile engine produced by General Motors' Oldsmobile division in the 1990s. It was a modern engine for the time, but was criticized for roughness, and balance shafts were added in 1995, but the 1996 2.4 was the real upgrade to the engine. The name refers to the engine's four valve per cylinder design and its four cylinders, but some variants with a single overhead camshaft were produced. The Quad 4 used an iron block and aluminum heads.

The Quad 4 debuted in 1987 and was replaced after 2001. Quad 4 engined were produced at Oldsmobile's Delta Township, Michigan plant.
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By the way, just because an engine is newer and larger displacement don't assume it's an upgrade for the Fiero...
The 3.1L from the 1990 Lumina van was only rated at 120 hp. The Fiero had the high output 2.8 which at 140 hp was a lot for it's day.

And don't forget the Buick Centry 3300, 180 hp, 190 tk.

The 3400 (non TDC) will also bolt up. No modifications needed to the transmission and the starter is on the correct side.

ok is the 3100 from the lumina van a decent upgrade for my 2.5 or would the 2.8 be better and what is the story on the 3400 will both 3400 and 3400tdc bolt up cause i want a 3400tdc but dont want a lot of hassle i can get all basic swap parts exhaust wiring hosing my self but dont want to do any machine work i want as close to plug and play as possible pm me with results plz

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Ok, here is an update combining what has been added from the last few posts. If there are additions or corrections please keep them comming.

GM 4 Cylinder
1.8 liter L4
2.0 liter L4
2.2 liter OHV (non Ecotech)
2.5 liter Iron Duke stock Fiero
1.8/2.0/2.0 Turbo, but the starter is in the wrong place and it's usually easier to use the transmission that came with these cars.

GM 6 Cylinder
60-degree V6 (2.8(Stock Fiero)/3.1/3.4 /3100/3400TDC) the 3.4 (RWD Camaro) needs the starter changed to the other side. FWD minivans had the right starter position for a Fiero.
Buick Centry 3300, 180 hp, 190 tk
3400 (non TDC) will also bolt up. No modifications needed to the transmission and the starter is on the correct side.
3800/3800 SC V6 series one two and three.

Cadillac
V8
Cadillac front wheel drive V8 (4.1/4.5/4.9 / Northstar) the Northstar and Aurora require a little bit of work to get the fourth bell housing bolt set up. The bell housing is the same size and the crank lines up, no adaptor needed.

Oldsmobile V8
4.0 Aurora V8 same work as the Northstar to install.
V6
3.5 DOHC V6 aka Shortstar came in Intrigue from 99-02 and a base engine in the Aurora from 00-03

Better idea here.

This is a subject that has come up 100 times. Could people who have actually done each of these swaps please take the time to give us about 1000 words on the swap. This would make a good swap info page off the front page of PFF. Personally I think this place needs a page like that, along with a page for everyone who makes and sells custom fiero parts through the forum without a comercial website.

Does the 2.2 echo thech have the same bellhousing pattern as the quad four might make using the 2.2 echo tech if it does. Dan

Rodney Dickman @ www.rodneydickman.com has the Jig for swapping the starter from side to side. Very easy to do Took me about 30 min to drill and everything lined up.

and what is it about the 3.0 duke used in merc i/o marine systems?

There is also a 3400 pushrod, basically a FWD 3.4 with roller cam and aluminium heads...

GM 6 Cylinder - 60-degree V6
2.8 (Stock Fiero) / 3.1 / 3.4 / 3100 / 3400 / 3400TDC
The 3.4 (RWD Camaro) needs the starter changed to the other side.
FWD minivans had the right starter position for a Fiero.

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Fiero Fiesta - July 24, 2005 - Calgary, Alberta <--- click this LINK

3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003/2004 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-18-2005).]

What is the deal with the 3.5s, what kind of HP do the put out? Are they as easy as a 3.4 pushrod motor swap??

Also, which of all of these is the closest to plug and play?? I've got to fix one of the injectors on my replica but that side of the engine is buried under the rear window, so I'm going to have to almost pull the engine to fix it. I figure while I'm in there I might as well upgrade, I just don't want to many headaches. I would really like the 3.4 TDC out of all, with the 3.4 pushrod next in line. But if I can get more engine out of some other, that would be cool too.

TIA,
Ron

BTW: This thread does need to be locked at the top or somewhere easy to access, as it is a common question.

[This message has been edited by sactodreamer (edited 02-19-2005).]

quote Originally posted by m0sh_man: and im not 100% sure but i think the 4.3L diesel motors from the mid 80's used our bolt pattern, but like i said im not sure, or maybe they used a th125c with the larger bellhousing.

The 4.3L diesel used very different gear ratios than a gas motor, due to diesels having low redlines. So you probably shouldn't use the diesel with the Fiero trans.