Hey guys,

For those of you using Electric water pumps with your SBC, Can you post some pics of your setup? I'm just cruious as to any mods that need to be done. Any good and bad experiences would be a plus as well.

I've heard good and bad about electric pumps. (Mainly not cooling or not cooling that well). Originally, I was going to go with the 4cyl pump in the A/C location ( However..., I really wan't my A/C since everything has been updated and it is Ice Cold), or I was going to go with the Archie Water Pump Drive setup like in my last build. .

Now that I'm going with a Getrag instead of the 4T60, My local Radiator shop that I use for my track car can custom make me a 2 core (2 - 1 Inch Cores) radiator a bit cheaper. ( now that I don't need the tranny cooler in the tank).

I'm now again considering going with an electric pump.

Those few that I've spoken to using electrics with the stock V6 Radiator who have had cooling "issues" or were running warm kind of scared me off a bit but with a higher capacity radiator, upgraded fans etc, I'm leaning that way again,

Any pics, info, "preferred brands etc would be a great help.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-02-2006).]

I just finished my SBC swap and I am using a cheap proform electric water pump with stock V-6 radiator. Works great, way better than a belt drive system. Only problem I had was when the cooling system was not bleed correctly. Will try to post pic. tonight.

Thanks,

It seems that more people than not have had pretty good results. A few horror stories but I think with my upgraded radiator I think I should be fine with an electric. Especially if the V6 radiator is working for people. Did you have to do any modifications to the strut tower etc, or did it "make it" without a lot of hassle?

I did also buy Fieroguru's block adapters awhile back from his last swap so I could remote mount the pump if I had to. But if it fits without too much "massaging" , that would be a little less plumbing for me.

Thanks, The pic would be great.

here is a pic of where to cut for a csi elec waterpump...



this actually shows everything that has to be done to get a v8 to fit. i am very happy withthis waterpump, i dont have a 4-core radiator yet, and i like the fact that if the engine starts to overheat i can just stop the engine, and keep the waterpump and rad fan on and that cools it down pretty quick.

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1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30,Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street

355/380hp sbc, 4 bolt main
spec stage 3, and many other extras.
87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.

That's not too bad of an area to cut. I like that it ends up in that location and not higher up.

Do you happen to have any pics from inside the wheel well??

How far does it stick into the wheel well? Not too much I would imagine.

Thanks

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-03-2006).]

If you use a stock radiator with an electric, you will cool fine, but it will runn a lot. I would definitely reconnend using a better radiator instead. You will also want to install an overide to make the pump run so you can get up to a good operating temp in the morning.

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Like electronica?
http://www.rantradio.com/rr-industrial128.pls

I agree,

The radiator upgrade (at least for me) is a certainty. Cooling is usually the first system I upgrade. I think the electric wil be just fine with the upgraded radiator.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-04-2006).]

Totally disagree that a radiator upgrade is a must. Do your research. Many variables invloved. I run the stock V6 radiator with a CVR pump mounted remotely. No cooling issues in south FL with my TPI SBC. I was thinking the same way and I decided to give it a try. Up to now I saved the $300+ for something I didn't need. And the e-pump runs all the time just like the belt pump You can look at my remote setup here;

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20060206-1-046290-2.html

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Totally disagree that a radiator upgrade is a must. Do your research. Many variables invloved. I run the stock V6 radiator with a CVR pump mounted remotely. No cooling issues in south FL with my TPI SBC. I was thinking the same way and I decided to give it a try. Up to now I saved the $300+ for something I didn't need. And the e-pump runs all the time just like the belt pump You can look at my remote setup here; https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20060206-1-046290-2.html

You know an electic pump is not supposed to run constant, right? That's what we were getting at with the radiator upgrade. The electric pump is supposed to start and stop. With it running constantly, your pump will not last as long, and neither will your alternator. Look at how many hours your electric pump is good for. They only last so long.

quote Originally posted by HellYes:You know an electic pump is not supposed to run constant, right?

I don't personally agree with this. The water gets so hot so fast at your around the cylinder walls there is no way an electric pump can start up and start moving water fast enough to avoid damage being done. I can see running it slower depending on temperature but from what I understand you must have water moving through the engine the whole time it is running.

I always thought the electric pumps ran all the time. (At least the 2 Meziere Electric Pumps I've used in the past did.) .

Not that this swap is going to be a daily driver but some of these pumps are rated for 10,000 hours I beleive. In the case of my car, I'm lucky if I drive it for a few hours on a weekend. At 30 hours of driving in a weekend (Which I would highly doubt), that's like 9 years of life . Pretty comparable to a run of the mill auto parts store stock style water pump if you ask me. (and the way that some of these regular and rebuilt stock pumps are built, most of them don't seem to last very long themselves. )

Mabye I'm wrong on the "average "Lifespan" but I'm almost sure my current pump is rated at 10,000 hours. I'll check that out,. I do admit that the Meziere pumps are rebuildable and I've been pleased with them but they are costly. Not sure if the cheaper ones are rebuildable but I would imagine not.

I'd be glad to check out the V6 stock rad and see how it goes as far as temp but for the relatively small price of an upgraded radiator, I'm not worried about the cost and would rather upgrade the system anyway.

I have a 308 replica with the center hood vent that will be open so with the increased airflow compared to a "flat un-opened" Fiero hood, I may actually luck out with the V6 Rad. I guess all that's really lost is having to replace the rad and having to bleed the cooling system again if it runs too warm.

I'll check out thos pics now. Thanks

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-04-2006).]

190 to 210, stock V6 radiator. My pump runs all of the time. I also like the fact that you can run the pump and fan with the motor off and it will cool the motor down.
When it goes out I will probably convert to Archie’s drive setup or a stock water pump with a belt drive electric add on motor.

Alex4mula,

I remember going through your post in the past. Great Info. Especially the clutch issue you had. (It had me running dowstairs the night I read that to look at my centerforce clutch and compare it to the problem that you had with the "contact".


Is your pump still remote mounted or have you changed it since then.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by HellYes: You know an electic pump is not supposed to run constant, right? That's what we were getting at with the radiator upgrade. The electric pump is supposed to start and stop. With it running constantly, your pump will not last as long, and neither will your alternator. Look at how many hours your electric pump is good for. They only last so long.

Who told you that? 10000 hrs at 2.5hrs driving per day (which I don't) is 4000 days or near 11 years. Why worry? Up to now I have 7K miles on it.

3084me;

Yes I still have the same setup. This pump is very quiet compared to others I have heard. Like I said, 7K miles on it with no issues.

Alex4mula, thanks for the info.

PS. I'm not sure about my current electric pumps (they are a little loud but I don't mind) but I happened to check the Proform site and the cheaper pumps seem to be rated at 2000 hours.

Obviously not as much as 10,000 hours but for a weekend crusier that will actually be idling / running or driving for 10 hours average a week, (and that's if it goes out every week), that's like almost 4 years or so. For the price, that's not too bad at all.. BY the looks of some of the cheaper ones, I can't tell but it does'nt appear that they are rebuildable.

My current engine for the swap has gear drive so I doubt I'll even hear the water pump if the current one happens to be louder than my other ones.)

Also, I agree with you.... I'm not really sure about the comment above about the pumps "not supposed to be" running all of the time. I've never heard that either and all the E-Pumps that I've used always run all of the time. (I don't think I would want them any other way.) I would'nt imagine that having them that way (running off and on) would even be any good ..

I guess you would have to hook them up to a temp sensor like the radiator fan and have them come on and off depending on temp, but but even if you did that, how would you have good coolant flow when they were not running and the impeller is'nt moving????

It seems that engine temp would increase due to that fact alone and the pump would still be turning on anyway.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-05-2006).]

I also had doubts about the longevity but if you do the math it may last longer than a crappy belt driven pump.
I use a CSI electric on my ZZ4. Once the key is turned to ignition the pump is on. I have a 4 core radiator and a manual fan switch that I used on the V6 too. Without the fan it takes the V8 a good long while, at least a lot longer than the V6 ever did to get to 220 degrees. The advantage of electric also is that water flow is always to the max so if you manually kick on the fan in heavy traffic it will lower temps really quick as opposed to belt driven pumps that flow less water at idle.

All I know is I'm completely pleased with my CSI electric pump and the 4 core radiator. I ripped out the Accel DFI and the new TPI ECM/chip (in progress) will run the fan automatically through the green with white strip wire behind the compressor. That way I don't have to worry about it cooling too much and having it jump in and out of closed loop. And I may never have to use that manual switch again.

From Archies 1.5 inch pipes in the kit that run under the car, and from the stock psgr. side pipe I used stainless steel flexible pipes from Summit racing that way i could route them just like I needed to the pump and out of the intake manifold. They work great, I used them on the V6 also for years, all you have to replace every couple of years is the rubber piece that connects the SS pipe with the inlet or outlet it's hooked up to.

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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com

TxFieros

I agree with you. Some of these Auto Zone, Pep Boys, Advance Auto "regular belt driven pumps" have a "hard time" making it a few years without crapping out. I've gone through 2 NAPA Brand New (Not reman'd) units on my Z-71 4x4 in 4 years.

If I was driving the car everyday, I would be a little more worried about an electric pump failing and leaving me stranded but for the few hours a week (mabye not even that) I'll be driving it, I think the electric is a nice option.

Great Idea with the flexible pipe from Summit Racing. That's exactly what I'm planing to do. It's much cleaner than running regular hose all over the place under there. Do you happenn to have any pics of your setup / routing of the flexible hose by any chance? I have a 308 replica so I have a bit more room under the there than a stock Fiero so I think I have some additional options for the routing.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-07-2006).]

I know I have a picture of the pump sticking out into the tire well, and I may have a picture of all the hoses from above.
Right now since the ZZ4 is at the shop I can just place the pipes back in the car sort of how I had them so you can have an idea of how I routed them.
If you go to my website, www.txfieros.com you can see there is NOTHING in my engine compartment.

I'm not at home now but I will get you some pictures up here later tonight.

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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com

[This message has been edited by TxFieros (edited 08-07-2006).]

Here are some pictures I just took.
www.txfieros.com/wp.htm


The shot I took from under does not show the pipe that goes under the cradle from the driver side. That is where the pipe that is on the right would hook up. The other one to the left is hooked up as shown to the pipe on that side.

The cut I made in that area was a bit too large. I just went crazy with the sawsall. Anyway, I welded in a 1/8 inch plate from the frame rail to the top of the strut tower for support. I just need to finally finish welding in the supports on the outside frame rails on both sides for good measure. The vertical area where a hole is under that vapor canister had to be cut down as seen into the horizontal metal to allow both hoses to fit in there. I got excess hose and attached it to the SS pipe where it touches the metal so it will not rattle, simple fix.

[This message has been edited by TxFieros (edited 08-08-2006).]

Carlos,

Great Pics..

It sounds like you did almost exactly what I was thinking about doing. I wanted to verify the size of S.S. tubing I needed before I began but I'm glad to see someone has "Blazed a path before me".

I just did'nt want all rubber hose under there. At one point, I was considering having a friend at a metal fabrication shop custom bend me some polished 304 stainless (smooth) but trying to figure out how to get that in there was a nightmare. Not to mention the hassle of having to replace it (if I needed to at some point). I think the flex stainless will do a great job. I'll bookmark that page , that's for sure.

I will also have to try and "refrain" from going crazy with the sawzall myself. I tend to do that.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 08-08-2006).]

The only good thing that did come from going a little overboard with the sawzall is that the water pump pulls right up out the top pretty easy. I can see how if I would have trimmed closer to the pump it might have made it a bit more difficult to maneuver the pump in and out of the engine compartment.

As soon as I get my engine back from the shop and put it all back together and take pictures of the hoses hooked up.

Also you will need several of those hose reducers, because the outlet (and all other connections) from the engine is usually smaller than the big pipe that fits over the SS pipe that comes with them. I actually have reducers on all 4 connections. I don't remember if it comes with any reducers.

Also that longer piece of rubber pipe that was under there I purchased at a tractor supply store because I reused the SS pipe on my V6 (and I had already cut the SS pipe for the V6 install) so I needed a little extra length and I did not want to buy another SS pipe... they are not cheap. I was afraid that since it was on the inlet side of the water pump it might crush the pipe from the sucking of the high flow of the CSI pump, but I have had no problems with it. Even when it's running at normal temps you can squeeze the pipe and it does not feel like it wants to cave, so that's a good sign. It's probably about 5-6 inches of usupported pipe, in other words it does not have a spring inside to keep it from crushing.

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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com

[This message has been edited by TxFieros (edited 08-09-2006).]

One thing I found out from my recent SBC swap is that you have to put the CSI pump in after the engine is in (I had to take mine off). SO if you make the hole in the fender well large enough you can get to the mounting bolts pretty easily.

quote Originally posted by xgamefan: One thing I found out from my recent SBC swap is that you have to put the CSI pump in after the engine is in (I had to take mine off). SO if you make the hole in the fender well large enough you can get to the mounting bolts pretty easily.

Very true... on mine I just jack up the car to let the suspension go all the way down, and I can put in my allen wrench between the spring coils to take off the screws for the left side. The right side I do from above the car.

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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com