As the title states, I noticed a coolant leak coming from the WP area. I think it is from the weep hole when the WP is wearing out. If that is the case, how many miles, roughly, do I have to change it before it needs replaced? I realize noone can tell me for sure, I just want to know if I should expect 100 miles or 10000 miles.

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More info at: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/043357.html

I would replace ASAP, the coolant can leak on the belts causing slippage, and possibly get in the alternator. If it gets near the exhaust it can cause a fire or at least a lot of smoke...............Paul

Most water pumps I have dealt with that start to leak get worse in short order.

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Tim
Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles



"What is hateful to you do not to your fellow man. That is the entire Law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a

I forgot to mention, it is a very slow leak currently, about 1 drop every 30 seconds.

When you see the puddles start to get bigger, then usually when your at the most inconvient place & time, you come out and theres a large stream coming from under your car and people standing around in awe, wondering whats going on--it (for the most part) it will happen when the engine is sitting and cooling off--good news is usually you can top it off and make it home--then time for the new pump. Strange over the years --they don`t leak like the above when driving it---its when you park it and the engine cools. Got a good couple of months out of a 69 chevy snub nose van I used to drive, before it went for good...

The leak means that the seal is gone. I wouldn't drive it to the auto parts store to get another water pump. BTW - Check your new pump to be certain that you have a metal impeller and NOT a plastic one.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: BTW - Check your new pump to be certain that you have a metal impeller and NOT a plastic one.

I have heard that before, how bad is the plastic one?

Unless it gets a lot worse in the next couple days, I am going to have to take my chances. I need to move to Flint, MI (350 miles) on Friday morning, hopefully it holds out until I get there. I have no time to do it between then and now.

Plastic are bad. They get brittle fairly quickly and then get loose on the shaft and you lose your coolant flow.

And I agree with everyone else.

If your leaking a drip every 30 seconds that is a lot. If you keep driving the pump bearings often start to go fairly quickly after they start to leak.

quote Originally posted by Fie Ro: I have heard that before, how bad is the plastic one?

Works fine...till it turns loose and the shaft spins inside it. Then you have mysterious overheating problems that are hard to detect. Everything seems to be ok, but you still overheat. If you KNOW that you have a metal impeller you don't have to worry about that part of the system. Switches, relays, air bubbles, bent coolant pipes can all cause overheat. If you can't open the system and SEE the water circulating how do you know that the impeller isn't slipping? You don't. If you are sitting in your driveway, water hose in hand, you can open a cold system, remove the thermostat and watch the water as it is pumped through the system. How many times has your car overheated while it is sitting in your driveway while you have a waterhose in your hand?

The last overheat I had was after a three hour drive to San Antonio. We hadn't had a problem with overheat, water loss or any other reason. We stopped for gas and the car overheated. We filled it up and continued to the hotel. Next day during the cruse the car overheated again. This time we were "who knows where" out in the hills. Fortunately, we had a great group of fellers with us. We had no more over heats during the weekend, even on the return trip to Houston.

What I discovered as the cause of the problem was a burned trace on the a/c control panel where the a/c setting is SUPPOSED to switch the fan. I jumped the burn and never had the problem again. In my case, I had already replaced the water pump and was fairly sure that the new pump had a metal impeller. I hadn't heard about this problem until the overheat situation. Next time I'll KNOW what kind of pump is installed and can go on to the real cause of overheat.

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 09-25-2006).]

Less than an hour on a 2.8? Shop time is 2.5 hours. I am going to look around and see if I can find a write up...I might be able to do it, or I might just have it done.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Unless it gets a lot worse in the next couple days, I am going to have to take my chances. I need to move to Flint, MI (350 miles) on Friday morning, hopefully it holds out until I get there. I have no time to do it between then and now.

You're kidding right?? You are going to set out on a 350 mile road trip with a known problem? I'm scared to death to take an 18 year old engine on a road trip when there are no known problems.

I suggest you make time to get it fixed or you will be spending a lot of time on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. And if you push it and overheat your engine you are going to be spending a lot of time getting a new head gasket installed on your engine.

Cars rarely break down without warning. That little weep hole is your warning, I suggest you don't ignore it.

I have since decided to just have it fixed by a mechanic I trust. I have an appointment for Wednesday...it's tough for me, I havn't let a mechanic touch my car in 2 years...

given the long trip, you made the right choice. no one touchs my cars either, but in your situation, you have enough to stress out over, and rushing even a simple job can cause more problems.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: why? it's proven at this point, if its not excessive high milage and well maintained, you have no more risk than any other car. the PO of my car took it to florida and back to ny with 120k on the car without incident.

I agree. Bought my '86 at 139k. It now has 170,000. I've been on five long trips in it from Houston to Louisville, Osage, Williamsburg, Daytona, and Pennsylvania. On the trip to Penn. we shuttled a 500something Mercedes tank for the wife's employer. She whined all the way there about driving the brick.

On the way up we made the Second, Maybe Last Swap Meet. On the return we did the Smokies down to Atlanta. I'm contemplating a trip to Ruidoso next month. Just maintain it, get in it and go. Most fun I've had on the road.

I think he may be refering to the fact that if the car breaks down---no one (at least in my neck of the woods) wants to fool with or fix Fieros. My wife won`t take a long trip in any of mine---come to think about it--she won`t take any kinda trip long or short in them.

In the space business just because something hasn't blown up in 20 years doesn't mean it won't the next time.

Even a low miles well maintained 18 year old engine is going to be more prone to failure than a newer motor of the same mileage and condition. The electronic parts have been exposed to all that heat for all those years could let go at any time.

Then there is the obsolecence factor, you break down in podunk nowhere and then have to search out some obscure part that is no longer in production.

And my cars are not daily driven, so it's very dangerous to take it out of the garage and then drive it 1,000 miles across country. I'm getting to where I would rather tow than drive out of state.

Although I did drive my 88GT from Houston to Daytona this year...but it sprung an oil leak along the way and I ended up feeding the leak with about 3 quarts of oil to nurse it home. Not my idea of a fun time.

Well, it does sound like you would be best not taking a long trip. mine is driven daily. it wasn;t planned that way, but having to keep 2 kids in college with cars, I decided to use mine daily. I took it off the road a few years back for bad bushings and an overheating problem, so when I decided it was cheaper for me to rebuild this car I did it almost soup to nuts. with 2 bad overheats on the engine and 150k miles it got a full special rebuild, new poly bushings, brakes, brake lines, and tires. I drive it daily, and I drive it like it was meant to be driven. I take 100 mile trips for work without a second thought.I only carry a coil and module with me. none of the other sensors will make the car undrivable. (well, the ecm could crap out, but that is not nearly as likely) the advantage to daily driven is you know what's new and what's flakey. right now I have no hesitation to take the car on any trip anywhere, as it's no more or less reliable than any new car. Even my wife likes to take it when we go out, maybe to appreciate how smooth riding her highlander is.....
you should realize that any electronic component can break at any time, so new is no guarantee of reliability Now if I could only find the time to sand it and paint it, cause we all know that if it's shiny and new looking, it will run better

As I was telling Texas in PM, the thing that really pisses me off is that I spent 10 hours this weekend getting it ready, doing a bunch of small stuff it has needed for a while. If I has seen the leak before I started, I could have bought a WP and done it on sunday. But noooooooooo I had to notice after I fixed everything else, when it was already getting dark out. I could have replaced the WP instead of wasting my time finding a place to mount my dual 135 dB Fiamm air horns.

Murphys Law....

I had that happen on the 2.5L '88. No leaks.. then 3 miles later.... leaking all over. I caught it in time, but very unexpected!

J.

I came out of work yesterday and the rear DS tire was almost flat. Luckily, I made it to a gas station to fill it. (It had 6psi...amazing the rim didn't touch and the sidewall didn't unseat) I found a nail in it when I was working on sunday, I hoped it would hold air until I could get it patched this week. The car also needs an alignment...I really don't think it wants to go back to Flint....not that I blame it.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 09-26-2006).]

Now, now Chris you know you love Flint, please no bad mouthing the Motor City where the weak are killed and eaten. Good luck with the pump. Changine it will sort out the mechanics from the wannabes. While I was changing mine I also replaced the hoses and the oil seal in the front cover and sleeved the balancer hub for peace of mind. Btw except for my crappy idle problem I would drive my car anywhere and it has 127 k on it.

I had to change out my water pump about 9 mo ago, and I came up with helpful trick. The day before changing the pump I found a piece of 3/4" plywood bigger than the water pump. With a hole saw, I cut a hole about 1/8" bigger that the impeller. Using blue RTV I put a bead all around the water pump (including all bolt holes), laid the gasket on the plywood, then the water pump on top of the gasket. I let it set up over night, and the next day when I put the new water pump in, I didn't have any problems with the gasket shifting around. Hasn't leaked a drop since. After reading about the plastic empellers, I'm glad I got the metal one.


86 SE 2.8 4-Speed

[This message has been edited by Mike Marden (edited 09-26-2006).]

Water pumps are a pain to do on a Fiero. I've done two on dukes, and the 2.8 doesn't look to be any easier. Still I'm glad you decided to get it fixed.

As for reliability, I agree that a daily driver that provides you with hundreds of miles of trouble free driving per week, is probably no more likely to break down on a long trip, than any other car. And it helps if it was recently refreshed with new parts.

Like I said I have been burned more than once, by taking a garage queen on a long trip. I normally shift them into daily driver mode a week or two before the trip to shake out any problems, but that oil leak got past me on this last trip. Luckily it wasn't too bad. I could have been stranded on one of those long I-10 bridges.

I look forward to the day I can stop using my GT as a daily driver...I feel bad, I have put 30,000 miles on the car in 2.5 years. (bought with only 63,7XX on it)

I am tired of "shaking out problems"...I have replaced almost everything on that car, and **** still breaks regularly. Right now one of the HVAC actuators is blown and I cannot change it from vent, and there is a oil leak from the tranny-side of the oil pan...more stuff I have to fix when I get to school.

well, that's old cars for ya. if you want it to stop, you have to bite the bullet so to speak, and just rebuild/restore it all in one mad/cursing/bleeding expensive shot.

and remember one thing about Murphy's law: Murphy was an optimist!

One of the challanges of owning a 20+ year old car is keeping it on the road. I'm a 60-year old semi-retiree (26-year Navy) with an 86 SE 2.6L 4-speed at work waiting for two axles (I work at the local airport, and the boss is good enough to let me use the back corner of the hanger to work on the car). The limited budget slows repairs down a bit. I just replaced the clutch and T/O bearing (first time I pulled a rear-engine cradle.... was that an education ). However, I have lusted after this car since 1986, and now that I have one, I will do everything I can to keep it on the road. On a lighter side, you have never seen anything funnier than a 60 year old man trying to crawl out of a Fiero after a 250 mile non-stop run . I know that some of the Fieros out there are daily drivers, but one thing you must realize is that a 20+ year old car WILL need TLC. If you need reliable daily transportation I would not recommend something 20+ years old. However, if you want the challange of keeping Americas only mid-engined sports car on the road, I salute you, and wish you all the parts you need, and those good friends that will come over at 10 PM to help you mate the engine with the trans. I've been blessed with at least the latter.

does owning a 20+ year old car have some obsticales? sure. but i wouldn't say that an older car isn't anymore untrusworthy than a late model car. suspension, belts, tires, regular maint. is something that every car needs to have addressed.

i have a buddy who bought a new saturn a couple years ago. i don't remember the model, it was a 4 door. he had a continious problem with the iac (i think) after the 5th time taking it to the dealer, numerous phone calls with saturn, he finally traded it in for an 06 model. the dealer told him that his model was famous for having this problem, and they couldn't figure it out. this is what he told me anyway.

id' much rather have an older car that i know has been taken car of than a late model that hasn't had the bugs worked out yet.

quote Originally posted by sostock: but i wouldn't say that an older car isn't anymore untrusworthy than a late model car.

Statistically speaking I would have to disagree. Sure there are plenty of examples on both sides of the equation, but I believe a modern, (less than 5 year old car) regardless of the mileage is much less likely to leave you stranded on the side of the road compared to the average Fiero.

Sure if you completely overhaul your Fiero every 100,000 miles, it might be very reliable, but how many do that? Most people wait for something to break and don't do a lot of preventative maintenance. As stuff begins to wear out those items get replaced, but what about all the other items just waiting to fail?

Don't get me wrong, I love Fiero daily drivers. I'm building one right now, but two years later I don't trust it enough to drive out of my neighborhood, let alone across country.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: ..I really don't think it wants to go back to Flint....not that I blame it.

LMAO I can understand why it doesnt want to come back..Flint roads are every fireos worst nightmare..maby thats why it needs an alignment.

sorry i just didn't mean fiero's, but any car. i see all kinds of late model cars on the side of the road, or tail/brake lights not working. i'm like wtf? that's a NEW car! how could that be?

but yeah i agree if i had to drive cross country i don't think i'd take my 84. well...probably not.

Nothing Ventured ... Nothing Gained.....

For everyone who wants to know what I am talking about, below is the list of **** I have done in 2.5 years/30,000 miles. Some of it is modifications, some of it is repairs, but most of the mods were done to repair something, like, konis because my KYBs were exploding, or a new sub/enclosure because the previous owner FUBARed the last one. I still get sick every time I see this list...

The previous owner added:

Held Motor Sports' coilovers at all corners (springs, struts, sleeves, adjusters, and some bushings Replaced)
275 lb springs all around (Replaced)
Full polyurethane (Mostly Replaced)
1" HMS rear sway bar (hardware replaced)
Carrera shocks in front
KYB struts in back (Replaced)
Rodney's Competition short throw shifter (Rebuilt)
Rodney's select arm rebuild (Re-Rebuilt)
Window tint (Removed)
Resistive interior lighting (Removed)
Braided stainless brake hoses (Replaced)
Yokohama ES100 tires, stock sizes (Replaced)
Pioneer 1.5 DIN head unit (Removed)
Pioneer 4X10 3-way speakers
Replacement subwoofer (Replaced)
Replacement stock clutch (Replaced)
New flywheel (Resurfaced)
New balljoints with polyurethane boots
New tie rod ends with polyurethane boots
Ultimate dogbone

Since owning it, I have added/fixed:

All four calipers replaced (2 replaced 2nd time)
Painted calipers red (Repainted)
New rotors
New brake pads, front and rear
Removed resistive lighting
Removed window tint
New alternator
New battery
Rebuilt shifter
New select cable
Rodney's quick shift arm (Replaced with Ultimate shift kit)
New heater core
New marker lights
K&N air filter, recently cleaned and oiled (Replaced)
87 GT seats (I like the older style better)
SLP Hurst T/A shift knob (Replaced)
325 lb Rear springs
New, greasable polyurethane rear sway bar bushings
NGK UR5 plugs (3rd set)
MSD Blaster coil (Replaced)
Conrad Professional Gold Line Cap and Rotor Set (Replaced)
STI 7.5mm spark plug wires (Replaced)
New O2 sensor (Replaced)
88GTNeverFinished taillights (Redone)
Fiero Warehouse scorpion scoop (Removed)
New E-brake cables and springs (Replaced cables)
New fuel pump and filter
Fire extinguisher added
FIERO GT 3rd brake light mask
Orief's door tabs
New power mirror switch
Recall weather strip added
Performance catalytic converter
New control arm bushings
New paddle nut assemblies
New EGR solenoid
SPEC Stage 2 clutch (Replaced)
New axle shaft seals
New rear main seal
Resurfaced flywheel
New flywheel bolts
New rear transmission mount
New MAP sensor
New upper strut mount (Repaired other one)
New decklid strap
New slave cylinder (Replaced)
Motor oil in Getrag replaced with Pennzoil Synchromesh
Replaced upper shock mount bushings with polyurethane endlink bushings
450 lb front springs (Replaced with Eibach of same rate)
New polyurethane balljoint and tierod boots
Replaced driver's side upper seat skin
Rodney's rack bushing
New inner tie rod ends
Added zerk to steering rack
Adjusted steering rack
Replaced rear studs with longer Dorman units for new wheels
Replaced center console support skeleton with strengthened unit
Rewired performance sound properly with SPDT relay
Replaced Pioneer head unit with Alpine CDA-9833 unit
Installed 1/2 DIN center channel speaker and hid amplifier in center console w/PC fan wired in
Replaced rear speakers with top-of-the-line Alpines
New Rodney sub and enclosure (Sub replaced)
Sylvania Silverstar headlights
New serpentine belt (Replaced)
Repaired cigarette lighter short circuit
Replaced front passenger braided brake line (Replaced again)
Addco 1.25" front swaybar
New modified greaseable front swaybar bushings
Darrel Morse 88 rear strut tower bar
New distributor O-ring
Added distributor gasket
Adjusted timing to 12° BTDC
Ausfiero Stage 3 scoops
Removed stock silencer/water separator
Fiero Store turbo window scoops
Amsoil 0w-30 Series 2000 synthetic w/Amsoil filter (Replaced)
12" zinc-plated Corvette brake rotors, with kevlar/metallic blend pads
16"X7" front and 17"X8.5" rear Royal Gunmetallic Rota Slipstreams, shod in:
205/50-16 front 255/40-17 rear W-rated Kumho Ecsta ASX tires
Replaced polyurethane rear swaybar endlinks
Replaced Earl's lines with Fierostore DOT stainless brake lines
Replaced EGR valve
Added Koni struts
3.94 Final Drive and shorter 4th and 5th gears, from:
Rebuilt transaxle from www.man-trans.com
New Spec Stage 2 Clutch set
15,000 mile original axles
New Fierostore slave cylinder (replaced)
Dayton custom stock replacement sub (Replaced)
Another new Fierostore slave cylinder
Compustar 2WSS-AS 2-way LCD remote start/alarm
Autopage AC-78 window module
Fiamm air horns
Tang Band Stock replacement sub
New coil
New ignition module
New pick-up coil
Grant Formula GT #772 12" steering wheel
Grant 1" spacer with mounting kit
Hurst Pistol Grip Shift Knob
Rodney's Ultimate Getrag shift kit
Cleaned and reset IAC valve
Adjusted shift linkage
Rodney's V6 Idler pulley
New serpentine belt
Rebuilt both headlighs
Recovered speaker grilles
Ground rear driver's side strut for camber
Ground front upper control arms for caliper clearance
Cleaned/greased window tracks
Tightened belt (4X)

Current issues:

Cruise control weak or fails in cold weather
Oil pan leak
Muffler area mat needs installed
Water pump dying
HVAC actuator dead
Steering column loose from missing shim
Sticky, semi-working e-brake
Sunroof sucks
.
.
.
.
.
.
I am just so tired of working on it...

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: For everyone who wants to know what I am talking about, below is the list of **** ...I am just so tired of working on it...

My brain hurts just looking at that list, let alone actually doing it.

I just talked to the shop owner. He said that the WP was definately leaking, my dianosis was correct (woot!). He tore it down yesterday, but some of the torx bolts on the WP were frozen in place. Rather than strip them, he hit them with penetrating oil and left it overnight. Today, he was "just finishing" getting it buttoned up and will call me back with a price. What do you guys expect it to be? If I had to guess, I would think it will be $250-$400...but whenever I take my car to a shop I am always terrified they will come back with some insane price. I paid $230 on my old 87 GT, but that didn't include the cost of the pump. Considering he used an AC delco pump, and I can find them for ~$30, I assume he will mark it up 100%.

Yup, but it is done. This way you don't have to worry about it.