All righty then! I finally reached the end point of my engine-destruction-derby-with-a-ratchet. Parts all over the place and me nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs, I finally have both heads removed. Me being just a joe kid with an 87 Fiero GT as my first car, and a rather limited set of tools to work with, this has been one hell of an undertaking.

In the beginning there was the cooling system problem. Replaced water pump (was bad), sensors (melted), radiator (cracked), reservoir (cracked), caps (just old), and several others (vacuum leak via EGR hose, various bad sensors, bad injector, etc). Thought I had it solved until the cool weather kicked in and I noticed huge plumes of smoke/steam coming from the exhaust. Sonofa...

So the first thing I did... well, this being *before* I noticed the smoke and before I replaced the injectors, radiator, and a few others... was replace a few gaskets, mainly to get me less afraid of the massive monster of a complicated engine I'm working with here. Nervously pulled out vacuum lines, hoses, wires, and um, distributor... and somehow managed to pull it back together and have it run in the end. Ran fine... after I replaced the injector, that is. That set me back a good 70 bucks. Ouch.

Now, later down the road, I decide to go for the big solution. Fix the whole damn engine - tear it down, clean it up, replace the head gaskets. Huge undertaking. First, removed the spark wires. Then, removed the plenum and its hoses. Pulled the throttle body out, disconnecting its hoses and cables, then getting it out of the way. Disconnected all the vacuum hoses and put them out of the way as well. Pulled out the coil and the shielding. Pulled off the distributor cap, marked and pulled out the distributor. Stuffed a rag in the hole. Unscrewed and dislodged the cold start injector, unplugged the injectors' electrical connection (don't need to unplug each wire, just pull it all out), unscrewed the fuel lines and fuel rail, and gently lifted it out. Pulled the intermediate manifold out.

Finally, to the good stuff. Pulled off the valve covers, set them aside. Unscrewed the thermostat housing and pushed it out of the way. Unplugged the various sensors from the lower intake manifold. Unscrewed the dogbone and separated the sides. Pulled off the trunk side one rather easily. The tire side one wasn't so easy - there's a triangle of bolts to unscrew behind (er, in "front" of) the throttle body hole. Two of them are practically impossible to fully remove, but can be simply pulled out of their holes to get the bar to swing. Finally, when the bar is out of the way, I removed the nuts from the posts and pulled the bolts out. Used a putty knife (I believe) to break the seal around the bottom of the lower manifold (there should be some silicon goop oozing out around the seam) and a stubby straight screwdriver to bump the pieces apart. Some bit of screwing around later, and it all came apart nicely.

Finally, removed the trunk side exhaust pipe bolts, pulled out the gasket (which would fall out), then started work on the head bolts. Note on the head bolts: they are REALLY TIGHT. I mean, REALLY dang tight. Two hands on the handle (and one ratchet already stripped) I manage to loosen each bolt in a loose opposing pattern (about top left, bottom right, bottom left, upper right, etc). After the first bolt was removed, I use a hose to siphon the coolant out onto the ground (the first non-important place I could think of to get rid of it). Then I pull each bolt out in a similar sequence. Made a diagram and placed each push rod in its proper place on a board of wood. No small amount of grunting later, I get the head off and thank god for great luck. :P

Started loosening up the bolts on the wall-side head but couldn't get around some nuts-on-posts the last engine-genius decided to add to this poor car. Bolts were supposed to be used in their place (and I'll probably need to bug fresnofiero for some proper bolts, LOL). After getting a deep socket, I found there was a bar in the way of putting the socket fully on (which is why we couldn't remove that bolt last night, lol). So I loosened up everything I could see attaching to that bar, which didn't budge it, but a small bit of prying force seems to have swiveled it in the proper direction to get clearance. Removed the remaining bolts, and removed the battery grounding strap (!! - Yeah, from the HEAD!). Again, removed the pushrods and added them to the block of wood. As I was trying to add grunting to maneuvering the bar (attached to the head) around the oil dipstick, I find the head now tethered down on some 14-gauge (or so) wire. Promptly remove the wire and get the head completely out.

I could say the results I found were somewhat inconclusive as of yet. I don't know what to make of it. I'll have to wait 'til tomorrow - parts cleaning day - to figure it all out. I bet it'll take another 2 days to get the car back together. What a blast this has been!

Pictures!


The impossible to remove bolts in the triangle-shape holding the dogbone bracket in the way.


My garage... and my car during open heart surgery.


The first trouble head bolt, near a "dummy" sensor that I'm going to cap off on reassembly. Solved with the use of the deep socket (oddly enough - I guess it was thinner).


Finally, the first head off! This is where I called it a day...


Don't have any new pictures of today's accomplishment (aka 'completion') but I'm sure I'll post some later.

Meanwhile, woot for me! I'll be asking for help in reassembly here, I'm sure of it. Otherwise, until I do, feel free to give me a pat on the back or something. Heh.

------------------

'87 Fiero GT, Automatic, 153k miles, stock everything, just trying to make it all work again. :D

I remember doing the same thing this spring, and i hope you have better luck then i. I also had loads of fun undoing the PO's 'fixes' ( like glueing the distributor down into the engine, or the broken manifold bolts and more glue )...

I didnt take the heads in to have them checked, and after i got it all back together had a crack in the water jacket somewhere and had exhaust coming out of the coolant. Blew the engine cap across the yard, thankfully i wasnt standing over it at the time.

So out came the engine :|

But with luck you will fare much better

Yeah - so far I'm seeing signs that careless-previous-owner DID, in fact, have a new short block installed. So that reduces the likelihood of a cracked anything, I imagine... however, I didn't find the earth-shattering leak source I was looking for. I did find uneven wear on the head gasket though... as if some bolts were unevenly tightened, or maybe even that the heads warped. I'll have to call the local expert in on this one, I think. I was told brake cleaner was the best thing to use to clean parts with... any opinions on using that to clean the heads, manifolds, etc? How about use in a small parts cleaner - is that reasonable or does it come in small bottles at high prices...?

Kudos to you Falcon4. That is a heck of a job for a mechanic and doubly so for you. Good job so far.

Congratulations on the progress.
Use mineral spirits on the basic cleaning, cheaper, available at hardware stores. brake clean for final prep before assembly.
Still wondering about the small coolant passages in head gaskets, don't recall seeing that before, maybe someone else can chime in here about that.
Are you going to have heads checked? Don't forget about thread sealant for head bolts.
You came this far, take your time during reassembly, we're here for you.

How do I get the heads checked? I know, checked for cracks and imperfections and whatnot, but who could do it, and of paramount importance: how much would it cost? I have approximately $0 to spend after having lost my wallet (and waiting for replacement cards), so everything I do is on friend- and parent-loans.

I definitely plan on cleaning everything - most importantly the head bolts and the holes. Mineral spirits... seems we have some so that should work. Safe for use in a parts cleaner that's shocked me at least once so far? (I'll have to look that switch over...)

Thanks for everything... I would still be giving this thing to mechanics if it weren't for this forum! Actually I probably would have been heartbroken and have sold it by now, to be honest. Can't afford any more mechanics' crap. So this is really awesome. Hey, if I had any money... I'd donate it to PFF!

Also, as far as the results... TWO cylinders (or... are the can-crushers themselves the "pistons", and the wall around them the "cylinder"?) came up sparkling clean when I pulled the head off the wall-side. According to most things I've read, that means there was coolant quite nicely leaking into those cylinders. I guess that tells me it was a coolant leak without a doubt. But I can't tell where... I'm guessing something was warped. I'll check it out in more detail tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by Falcon4 (edited 11-26-2006).]

Someone mentioned that the holes in the head gaskets were smaller than the passages in the castings.
That's perfectly normal. You'll notice that there are two large holes in the ends of the gaskets. That's all that is needed to keep the coolant flowing properly. If all the holes in the gaskets were the same size as the holes in the castings, the coolant would get pumped into the front of the block and go right back out through the thermostat housing. It would never circulate to the distributor end of the engine.

That "dummy sensor" that was on the corner of the head, next to the troublesome head bolt, is the coolant temp sensor. It runs the temp gauge and the idiot light.

You're a braver man than me. I don't think I would attempt to do this job with the engine in the car. But then I've pulled the engine out so many times that I'm almost starting to get good at it.
Almost.

Edit - The only "effective" way to get the heads checked is to take them to a machine shop. They can also check them for warpage.
It'll cost some money, but it's the only way to ensure that you're not putting bad parts back on the engine.

------------------
Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe................................................

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-26-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: That "dummy sensor" that was on the corner of the head, next to the troublesome head bolt, is the coolant temp sensor. It runs the temp gauge and the idiot light.

Noo... that's the gauge sensor on the other head. This one's a badly corroded, smashed up, disconnected identical duplicate on the wall side.

quote Edit - The only "effective" way to get the heads checked is to take them to a machine shop. They can also check them for warpage. It'll cost some money, but it's the only way to ensure that you're not putting bad parts back on the engine.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Ballpark, anyone?

The "dummy" sensor he pictured is on the firewall head, pax side, next to the coolant pipe and fuel lines. It is not used on his engine as he has the "real" sensor in the correct place also (next to the coil) on the trunk head, drivers side. My original engine had a plug there on the firewall head. Someone before him must have replaced the original head with one from the opposite side that had the sensor. Since he mentions that is also the side with the coolant leak, I would have that head (if not both) checked for warping/cracking, etc.

Edit: lol, you typed your response too quick for me....

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 11-26-2006).]

hey + for u i kno how i t is ovr the summer got a fiero never had any experience in anything bigger than a dirtbike an went at it i tore it down to bare block an rebuilt it all sill have to yetr to try to start it as it is still not in cus of needing sumone to rebuild my trans .>.<

[This message has been edited by DEMONCHILD (edited 11-26-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Falcon4: Noo... that's the gauge sensor on the other head. This one's a badly corroded, smashed up, disconnected identical duplicate on the wall side.

DOH! Ooops. Sorry.
I skillfully overlooked that part.

Sorry, I can't give you a ballpark on getting the heads checked.
I had it done, but it was included in a bunch of other stuff they did.

You can check them for straightness (flatness?) yourself.
First, make sure that all of the gasket material residue is cleaned off.
Next, lay a straightedge on its side from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner, on the side that faces the block.
Then do the same thing from the other two corners.
Ideally, the straightedge should contact every surface that it runs across, with no gaps. Gaps indicate a warped head. I'm not sure what the allowable tolerance is.
On second thought, you still are going to have to have them checked for cracks. Just have them check for straightness too. If they don't have to mill anything (assuming the heads are straight) they shouldn't charge more than a couple of bucks to check them. It only takes a minute or two.
If they have to mill them, they'll charge you a few bucks, but if they do, it needed doing anyway.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-27-2006).]

Ooh, good question I just thought of.

Where do I find "machine shop" in the phone book? Under "machine" or under "shop"?

some stuff in my thread may help..

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/061374.html

and the sensor thing... it just looks like someone had previously disassembled your engine, and used 2 of the same head..

quote Originally posted by Falcon4: Ooh, good question I just thought of. Where do I find "machine shop" in the phone book? Under "machine" or under "shop"?

You can talk to your local auto parts store, they would know people that specialze in engines.

I had a place just down the street but i 'knew' it was ok.. Doh! Wasted an entire weekend and a entire set of gaskets putting the bad stuff back together. its well worth the few bucks to have them checked. Even if they check ok, at least you wont have to worry about it blowing up a week from now out on the road.

And although ive done this stuff long ago so its not really new, it wasnt a bad 're-learning' experience when i tore mine apart.

here's a couple:

Decker Auto Supply - Machine Shop
Fresno, CA 93650
(559) 229-6044
Categories: Auto Parts Retail, Auto Machine Shop Services, CNC Machining Turning & Milling Shops

QAC
2273 South G Street, Fresno, CA 93721
(559) 268-4323
Categories: Auto Engines Service & Repair, Auto Engine Rebuilding, Auto Machine Shop Services, CNC Machining Turning & Milling Shops

Ron's Machine Shop
4235 East Belmont Avenue, Fresno, CA 93702
(559) 251-5567
Categories: Auto Engines Service & Repair, Auto Engine Rebuilding, Auto Machine Shop Services, CNC Machining Turning & Milling Shops

That should be enough to get you going. I just went to yellowpages.com and did a search for machine shops in fresno.

quote Originally posted by Falcon4: Ooh, good question I just thought of. Where do I find "machine shop" in the phone book? Under "machine" or under "shop"?

Look under "automotive". Also, you can hang out at the local track and ask people for recommendations. Talk to different shops until you find one you feel comfortable with, check out their references too if you can.

Generally, unless you're wanting the actual experience of doing a ground up rebuild on your own or are after a particular objective in keeping your original engine it's much easier and less expensive to install a short block or long block. In my case I wanted to keep the numbers matching on my Formula and wanted to build for lowend torque and midrange power, I was fairly successful with both:

http://www.etrackmasters.com/dyno/jamessa.gif

James

lol @ your engine not even being able to loosen its own head bolts before the build
(as far as torque at low RPM)

If anything in this [re]build is going to cost me more than $100, I can't do it... at least, without christmas-list requests of the relatives and friends. Lost my wallet so I can't buy anything (at all) at the moment, and even when I had my plastic, I was living on credit. On the flip side, I have all the time in the world, and am totally willing to trade time for saving some money. Hell, I bought 8 AA Ni-Cd batteries at a sale for 6 bucks and rebuilt an R/C car battery pack just to save a few bucks. If there's ever a few minutes I can trade for saving some money, I'll do it.

So getting a new short block and installing it (which the last owner seems to have already done recently, according to him and the looks of this engine) is really far fetched for me. First of all it'd probably be just as much trouble, since I don't see any ring damage and there wasn't any water in the coolant to cause bearing damage... seems it should end with just these new head gaskets and having the heads checked. Now that it's boiled down to "a few bucks", I should be able to manage (so long as they take Visa). Then when I put it back together, one more bottle of coolant and an oil-change set, and I'll be back on the road, I think!

I'm definitely amazed how complex this whole engine is... I never thought there'd be this much involved in an engine. I never really knew how an engine worked until I touched my Fiero! I mean, I had rebuilt lawn mower engines but those were pieces of cake compared to this. Lawn mowers don't have computers, vacuums, and sensors.

Today: Strip down the heads (pull off the parts I left attached like exhaust, shields, mounts, etc) and have them checked out... clean up parts, so on and so forth. Yay. Might go online or to Pep Boys and check out different gasket types... I heard GM or Fel-Pro were the "best" and, no offense to fresnofiero (who gave them to me) but I dunno about Napa gaskets. I sure don't want to have to do this again!

Just make sure when you get head gaskets get permatorque gaskets. You don't want to have to re torque your heads after a 100 miles.

quote Originally posted by Falcon4: I don't see any ring damage and there wasn't any water in the coolant to cause bearing damage...

Hmmm... no water in the coolant??


Sorry .... don't mean to bust your chops .... just struck me as funny.


Rich

Yuurrr... um, you know, oil in the coolant. Er, coolant in the oil. ****! >.<

Too much brake cleaner.

edit: OIL IS A COOLANT!

[This message has been edited by Falcon4 (edited 11-27-2006).]

Hey, can you post some nice, in-focus, close-up pictures of your head gaskets?? You can usually tell where the coolant was getting to the pistons if you look really close. Kind of a moot point, just curious.

BTW, the torque for the head bolts is 66 ft.lbs.
Sequence is:
6-2-3-7
5-1-4-8

Picture looking down on the head and looking at the bolts. After you get done, let it sit for a while and then re-check.

Just sent you an email.

[This message has been edited by cropduster (edited 11-27-2006).]

two things i didn't see mentioned that are of utmost importance:

1): DO NOT PUT ANYTHING BACK TOGETHER WITH OUT USING A TORQUE WRENCH!!! especially the head bolts! they, along with many other parts, must be torqued down to exact values to avoid damage, also you need to torque them in the right sequence.

2): the head bolts are not reusable, always use new ones when installing heads. they are torque-yield bolts, and stretch to the heads when installed and cannot be reused.

this comes from my experience with this same procedure when i killed the head on my 2.5. another tip, to avoid fire, make sure you re-time the engine properly, i didn't, and lost a bat cable, and throttle cable in the following fire. bad thing

------------------

1987 Pontiac Fiero GT, 148,000 miles! decklid window, silver guages. rear ended someone, and now the rebuilding starts! More pics of my 87 GT can be found here
1985 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 auto, 222K miles and counting <-my first car, and i still cant get rid of her!
2002 Toyota Celica GT, 5-speed, 47K miles <-FOR SALE!
A 4 year olds knowledge of science: No matter how much jello you put into a swimming pool you still can't walk on water.

1) Yup, that's the wrench I'm using for most things. I just hope it goes up to 66 ft-lb... it's small.

2) Where do I get those? Do I have to order them from the Fiero Store? Or could I get some from Pep Boys?

you can get the bolts at most parts stores, and yes fierostore sells them as well. But parts store would probably be cheaper because you won't have to pay shipping.

" they are torque-yield bolts, and stretch to the heads when installed and cannot be reused."

This is not true for the V-6...

quote Originally posted by joeformula88: " they are torque-yield bolts, and stretch to the heads when installed and cannot be reused." This is not true for the V-6...

oh really? i thought i herd it was for both? so than are they reuseable, or is it still best to replace them? i would reguardless.

I was hoping not... the bolts look in excellent condition (like new) but I really don't trust that amount of torque to that shallow a thread... but then again it almost looks like if I needed to replace the head bolts because of the threads, I would have to replace the block too (they're the same thread)! Whatever I can get away with *not* replacing, the better off I'll be.

Today I hope to get started on the rebuild itself... getting the heads tested, one or two Fel-Pro gaskets, a couple replacement gaskets (thermostat housing, valve covers, and EGR), and some thread sealant.

Quick question though. I already have a set of new Napa gaskets, the black kind. I wanted to get a Fel-Pro gasket for the problem side, but would it be a problem to have one Fel-Pro gasket there and use one Napa gasket on the good side (which is what I pulled off to begin with)?

no, they should always be replaced as a set, I understand your desire to stay on the cheep, as I have done the same thing, but sence have learned that if a job is worth doing its worth doing right the FIRST time, not the second!

btw: they do sell head gasket kits that come with all the gaskets you need in one box. I wouldn't use anything other than fel-pro gaskets. though I would go with gm originals if I could get them. I figure if it was good enough for gm its good enough for me!

So let it be done. I went with Ron's Machine Shop, posted above.

They charge me $90 for both heads, tested and surfaced. I guess a job worth doing is a job worth doing right. It would be $20 per head just to test, but I figured it'd be best to get it done the right way.

While I await the results (and I did number/mark the heads to be sure I get my own back as per suggestions), I went to Autozone to stock up on much needed items...



Genuine mothafriggin' Fel-Pro. Also got new head bolts, 21 bucks for the whole set. How cool is that?

Today: Begin the rebuild!

84 - 180 in/lbs or 7 - 15 LB/FT

Got it, thanks! Wanted to install the spark plugs on the wall-side before installing the head, so I didn't have to go through the trouble later. LOL...

Now installing the front head (the problem one)!

Just wanted to give you one tip that I missed. I didn't watch where the head bolt with the stud and nut on top go. Just in case you didn't note it, it goes on the left head (front of car) corner closest to the oil pressure sender. The support bracket for the fuel lines mount on it.
Mine was apart for several months so I forgot where it went.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 11-28-2006).]

Sweet, I'll keep that in mind when the time comes

Just got done installing the second head (and torqued, of course). Holy crap, that's a lot of force. Then again I'm used to computer repair, where the biggest ratchet you'd ever need is a ratcheting screwdriver!

Pictures!


Those are some big can crushers! Here's as low as it goes... very nice. Note the piston that looks brand new. Obvious which one the water was leaking into!


The bottoms of these heads are very clean. 100 bucks well spent.


Both heads installed... need to drill out a broken-off plastic tab from the last gasket set before installing the lower manifold though. I'll probably install the rods first.

Now I enter the weird realm of "valve lash". There's not a snowman's chance in hell of me turning this engine by hand, so I'm going to try yanking out all the fuses I can think of, then crank the starter to move the valves around to the low positions randomly. I'll set them whereever a lifter is at its lowest position. Does that sound like a decent idea? =\

Yeah Falcon4, we were waiting for you to ask this question. You need to set the valve lash. It is easier to set the lash before you re-install the lower intake as you can see the lifters.

How I've adjusted my valves when I had my engine apart.

First of all let me give credit to where it is due. JazzMan and a couple of other PFF members actually wrote a good portion of this, I cut, pasted, wrote and edited this so that my non-mechanical brain could easily follow it. That said, let’s get busy adjusting some valves.

The idea is to get the lifter poppet part way down into its bore, about 1/4-1/2 of its travel. If you don't use up some of its travel, then your valve(s) will get loose as normal wear on valve-train parts causes the poppet to reach the top of it's travel. It will also require more oil to remain (at pressure) in the lifter's plunger cylinder. The more volume to fill, the more chance that the plunger can be compressed, causing a ticking noise or at high revs a bent pushrod.

Make sure that the lifter being adjusted is on the base circle of the cam, this will be TDC on that piston with both valves closed. TDC #1 is where both #1 valves are closed and main fat timing mark on harmonic balancer is at zero on timing tab and distributor rotor is pointing at the number one plug wire terminal.

Set your intake and exhaust valve lash on #1. (1&1/2 turns after zero lash on rocker arm nut.) Rotate the harmonic balancer clockwise 120* to the next timing mark and you know that you are at #2 TDC. Set your intake and exhaust valve lash on #2. The next timing mark after that is #3 TDC and so forth. The crankshaft turns twice for every revolution of the cam (4 cycle engine) so the next timing mark on the ballancer is TDC for #4 cylinder. Remember that the GM/Fiero engines have three timing marks (0*, 120* and 240*) on the harmonic balancer. This much easier than the Chiltons manual method.

The lifter plunger centering adjustment is 1&1/2 turns. Most people think is too much. It is not. The 1&1/2 turns (as specified in the FSM) will center the lifter plunger on an OEM valve train (with the standard rocker ratio). The reason most think that 1&1/2 turns is too much is because they don't properly identify the zero lash point. If you are twirling the pushrod you won't be able feel the zero lash point unless your hands are 50 times (give or take) more sensitive than the average human. Anyway, while approaching the zero lash point, you should be gently rocking the pushrod up & down between the lifter and the rocker arm. That way you can feel the play diminish down to zero.

Wiggle the pushrod back and forth as you tighten the rocker nut, you will feel the pushrod end "clicking" as it moves around. The amount of movement will decrease as the nut is tightened until suddenly it stops. This is the point where the lash is out with the poppet at the top of its bore. Now, you need to move the poppet down its bore, so you continue to tighten the rocker nut.

How much you ask? Well, the rocker stud has a 1.5mm pitch, so one full turn moves the rocker ball down 1.5mm. The rocker arm ratio (stock) is 1.5:1, so moving the rocker ball down 1.5mm moves the pushrod down 1.67x1.5mm, or 2.5mm plus or minus a very tiny bit. The lifter poppet travel is 6-8mm, so 1.5 turns on the rocker nut (factory spec) is 3.8mm at the lifter poppet, or about halfway. That's how much I tightened mine, and it worked just fine. Any less and the valves will need readjustment sooner due to wear.

I had mechanics using the Chiltons manual mess up the lash, I tried the twirl and ¾ turn method and it was noisy as marbles. Jazzman gave me the pitch and rocker ratio measurements above and I went with timing marks on the balancer and the 1-1/2 turns on rocker arms. My engine is smooth now. Lots of power. Most important to me is that I wont have to go through the work to tear the upper half of the engine out to get the lash adjusted for a very long time. Some people have had success with other methods, all the power to you. If there is an easier way, count me in!

Good luck with setting your lash.

In short, find TDC on #1 cylinder, 1&1/2 turns after zero lash on rocker arm nut on both intake and exhaust, move crankshaft/harmonic ballancer 120* (to next timing mark) set lash on #2 and so forth.
------------------
jetman
Silver 86 SE 2M6 4-speed, with "check wallet light"

[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 11-30-2006).]

Dammit, I asked this before and couldn't get any replies last night, so I just did what I said I did and finished sealing up the lower manifold already. And there's no way I could turn that engine myself (said that what, 3 times now?), so how would that help anyway? =\

I appreciate the write up though... sounds unbelievably complicated and pretty much the only reason I didn't want to do this project to begin with. Okay, here's another idea... would they all be about the same adjustment? How about I take up the slack in the adjustments by screwing them all down to about the same level? Then the lifters would adjust themselves automagically... right?

Ugh, what a jacked up system... *sigh*

You can do it with the intake installed, you just have to be very careful not to adjust them too tight. Some lifters, as you've noticed, will compress very easily and others are more solid. That usually is because there is air in the soft ones, which will bleed out when you get the engine running (don't be surprised to hear some valve clatter when you start it, it should go away in a couple of minutes). You must take the time and do this correctly or you'll be pulling the valve covers off again after you've tried to get it running. It is VERY important that you get the pushrods at zero gap before you do the final 1 1/2 turn adjustment. It's very easy to go too far, which may cause some valves to remain slightly open, which equals an engine that will run very poorly or not at all. Find a friend or someone near you to give you a hand if you don't feel comfortable. If you take off the right rear wheel and inner fender liner, it makes it a bit easier to get a socket on the crank pulley bolt to turn the engine by hand. Removing the sparkplugs also helps a lot.
Eyeballing the adjustment is risky at best.

------------------
Rod Schneider, Woodstock, Ga.
"You can't have too many toys!"
1988 Fiero GT
1966 Porsche 911
Van's RV-6 airplane-under construction

Not surprisingly, I didn't think this would be the most difficult part of this whole operation... =\

So there's no way to do it just by hitting the starter a few times? How magnificent. I guess I'm screwed then. I'll see if I can find a way to get around to that side of the car (it's kinda boxed in a tight garage) and pull that stuff apart. Sigh...

Got the new valve cover gaskets today... if all goes as planned (if I can get this valve crap worked out) I should be driving my car around later tonight!

edit: In which case, I'll be following jet's method above... despite my strong urges to just let it go as it is... >.<

edit:

quote The next timing mark after that is #3 TDC and so forth. Remember that the GM/Fiero engines have three timing marks (0*, 120* and 240*) on the harmonic balancer

So... what's "and so forth"? I would have run out of timing marks at that point! How do I get 4, 5, and 6? The same thing...?

edit: Okay, so the basic sequence is, with the valves both closed (TDC), to tighten it down to where there's no movement, then to tighten one and a half more turns. Geez, that sounded a lot more complicated than it really was! LOL!!

[This message has been edited by Falcon4 (edited 11-29-2006).]