i hear people talking about having to get a brake upgrade when they go with these different control arms. can you use the 11.25 upgrade when you go with these control arms or is this a no-no?

is the 12" corvette upgrade better anyway?

sorry to hijack...

WIth this suspension package I don't see why you couldn't use your stock rotors, brakes and tires. I didn't really focus too much on answering that question since I had plans on upgrading the brakes and tires from the start. The only reason you'll need bigger rims is to accomodate the larger rotors if you upgrade your brakes.

So tonight I had a friend come over to help me start putting the front suspension together. I don't know a whole lot about suspension so I figured I'd get someone to help me who knows about the dos and don'ts.

Here's a picture of the crossmember without the control arms from the passenger side. I plan on mounting everything for a test fit then removing it all and doing the final cleaning and paint touch ups before final assembly.

Here's the driver's side with the lower control arm mounted.

Now here's where the project halts. When I talked to Darrel at RCC he said that I'd have to grind the spring perches to fit into the top of the spring towers. After reading the instructions and comparing them to the product they leave a lot to be desired. (I would suspect that the installation instructions have never been revised but the product has been a few times.)

Anyways, if you look at the following pictures you'll see that in order to get the spring perch to fit I'm going to have to remove the entire shoulder of that perch and grind a CONSIDERABLE amount of metal from the top. I'm forwarding these pictures to Darrel and see what type of response I get. I'm actually still waiting for a response from my ORIGINAL question about the fit of the lower control arm.

Wow

That does look like you will have to remove a considerable amount of material to make it fit. When it's been cut out, what will hold the top in place?

Sour

wow. i wish i was home to school and start on my car after seeing this. you are like reading my mind with eerything i want to do. love the attention to detail you have also.

wow is right on the spring perches, please let us know what you dig up!

thanks!
jeff

Haven't dug up anything so far. Sent an email to 2 different addresses at RCC. Hopefully they'll get back to me by the end of the week.

To be honest, I don't have a good feeling about the situation. I imagine I'll just go ahead and butcher the mounts they supplied and make my own.

I sure appreciate the effort that you are going to in order to document the work you are doing. I'd give you another plus but I can't. Keep up the good work. I look forward to seeing your solution for the front coil-overs.

Sour

As recommended, I ordered a GM clutch slave cylinder today. I had no idea that it'd cost $210 Canadian!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, it should be here in a couple of weeks.

Well, I went to town with a grinder and a blow torch....oh...all right. I just used a grinder on the spring perches tonight.

Believe it or not, the one spring perch I ground down didn't require that much butchering to fit.

On the left is the spring perch I ground to fit. On the right is the spring perch that is untouched

Here's how it looks sitting in the crossmember. The pictures in the instructions show the gap in the metal shoulder as facing inwards. I'm pretty sure that's how I'll mount mine as well. They look kinda dorky with that space facing outwards.

[This message has been edited by Soelasca (edited 12-09-2004).]

Pulled out the spindles from my '84 today. To my surprise they're actually in good condition. That's gonna save me some time and hassle. I thought these ones were gonna be just as screwed as my original ones. So I guess tomorrow I'll be cleaning them up and see if I can't put a coat of POR-15 on them.

Well, a few things have happened over the holidays.

Some more grinding on the front coilover shocks. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed with the amount of grinding that had to happen to the mounts. I feel they could've been made smalled, leaving less to grind. I am no stranger to grinding / fabrication and it took me well over 3 hours to grind both mounts to fit.

Here's a picture of my niece doing some grinding for me.

I placed the front coilover shocks in the control arms and got the spindle mounted in to see how they fit. I don't have a picture, but noticed the shock bottomed out fairly quick. I hope this doesn't pose a problem, but I'll know more once I get it together and on the ground.

With xmas, my girlfriend bought me a nice new snap on compressor. ( HUGE GRIN ). We ended up doing some shuffling in the garage and moved all of her woodworking equipment into the other bay. This gave me the opportunity to turn the car sideways in the two bays.

Here's a couple of pictures of the process.

1. Removal of the trunk and hood

2. Hooking up the front end to the crane.

not the safest rigging in the world, but it held without any problems

3. Once the car was turned sideways I got it up on jackstands. I did this procedure with my '84 when I removed the engine cradle. The big difference was I never had the front end apart. DANGER!!! With the front end apart and the whole car on jackstands the center of gravity is right in front of the engine cradle. The car was very tipsy just before this picture. I removed the rear tires and battery and placed them on the front of the car just to make the setup relatively safe.

4. The disconnection of the engine. You can see the wiring harness, air intake and shift cables tucked up on the left.

The mounts aren't disconnected yet, but it's ready to go.

Ok, here's the interior after tonight's excursion. I pulled out the center console to remove the wiring harness to the ECM. I also needed to remove the shifter cables as I'm switching from a Isuzu to a getrag. I sure hope the cables come out in the smae spot for a getrag

I also removed all the insulation in the engine compartment. Actually, I pretty much removed everything in preparation for painting. I removed the battery tray.....well, more like hacked it out with the grinder. It looks like I might do some more work with the POR 15

I just relised your from edmonton! My name's Lance. Have you been to the fiero meetings here in town?

Your suspension is looking awesome.

Not from Edmonton anymore. I live in Bonnyville (AKA Redneck Haven Alberta) now.

Looks great! Keep the info flowing.

Sour

Dang that thang is becoming purdy...

I attempted to put the engine and tranny together today. I had everything I thought I needed.

Of course murphy's law is rearing it's ugly head.

Here's a picture of the rear of the engine.

Here's a picture of the flywheel by itself.

Here's a picture of the flywheel against the back of the crank. Notice how the pilot hole seems WAY too big for the pilot

Here's a picture of the flywheel aligned with the dowel pin on the back of the crank. I don't think I need to say more.

If anyone knows what the problem is here. Please give me some insight. Yes, I already know the measurements are wrong. I'm wondering why I got the wrong flywheel from Archie. Did I give him the wrong ordering info? Did he supply me the wrong flywheel. Did his supplier machine this one incorrectly?

On a side note, is that front crossmember any different than your 84. I took my 84 apart, and it looks slighly different than your 87. I heard that the later GT models came with a boxed crossmember that was slightly more rigid, but then that would make 3 different pieces, doesn't seem likely.

It's hard to tell in that picture.

What type of control arms are you using? Are those the stock ones? RCC? or some other type?

They are stock LCA for 84... which are different from the factory than later years.

I just went thru the whole thread again; good info and thanks for sharing.
If you get a chance could you post a pic of just ONE upper control arm? I saw the shot of the pair but maybe a slightly different view? I am having some built as we speak and would like to take in a pic for interest.

How hard or easy was the POR15 to apply? I hear about having to do ie 3 or 4 steps to properly follow the factory recommendations for that; is that right? Do you think you will be happy with the results and are you ok with the cost? I don't think it is cheap....???

(Unless I missed it) when do you think you will have a pic of the entire front susp (1 corner) with everything assembled? I think you are waiting on a supplier and that situation is ongoing but how far are you from a 'sort of' mockup? Ie is the stuff close enough to assemble but there is an issue with something else (strength after grinding a lot maybe?) or does it not fit at all right now?
Great thread and info; keep it up; you'll be very happy and proud of the results no doubt.
gp

Ok, I was going to get the spindles AND the hubs on tonight, but it turns out the hubs from WCF only came with the bearing races not the bearings themselves. Tommorow I'll be seeing if I can't get the front wheel bearings locally.

Here's some pictures of the front suspension in place. The ball joints are tight. The bolts are just place through the holes to keep them together. Everything will be removed after the test fit and remounted later.

Here's a picture before the spindle was installed on the passenger side.
http://www.soelas.ca/images/62478e4f1b75fee5c6feec901d551286-429.jpg

Driver's side spindle installed with the suspension jacked up. I'm not sure if that's as high as it will go, but at this height I was lifting the whole car

This is the passenger side spindle installed. I took pictures of the assembly without the jack to show the downward travel.

I'm still a little leary of the full travel range of the shock. I won't know exactly how it rides until I get the hubs and tires on (hopefully that'll be tommorow night).

[This message has been edited by Soelasca (edited 01-11-2005).]

MY FRIEND I AM PROUD OF YOU. TAKING ON A PROJECT OF THIS NATURE - YOU HAVE MORE GUTS THAN 'DICK TRACEY' - KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND GREAT PICTURES - YOU SHOULD BE WORKING FOR NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC...KAWKEN

Interesting....

I was born in Pt. Alberni and still have quite a few Aunts, Uncles and cousins that live there

I think it is looking good; what exactly do you mean by the ball joints are tight? Simply that they are in place to stay?
It appears that your control arms are almost horizontal when you jacked that corner up; I dont know what the status is on the engine (and thus total car weight etc) and where else the car is supported but the front is only supported in the middle? By the stack of tires I think, so that wouldn't take that much to jack that corner. I think you will have to load the spring a bit more than now when you DO get the wheel in place, which is fine. I expect you want the control arms to be 'horizontal' at normal ride height and you will load the spring to accomplish that. That is what I am going to do.

What is your concern about the shock travel exactly? It looks maybe even shorter than mine!?!? (wow) what is the free length of the spring you use?

But looking good; are you waiting for other 'stuff' to do with the front end or is it almost done now?
gp

My concern is that the shock is going to bottom out when driving under normal conditions.

is this a shock/spring that came as part of the control arm kit? From who? Hopefully it is designed for the purpose, altho you have expressed concerns about 'design changes' in your parts...
what rate is the spring? do you know how much total travel you will have? IF the upper shock mounting point has been moved (the design changes you talked about? not sure) then that certainly will affect the shocks normal position, travel and available range.
That is something you will want to get clarified I am sure.
The general concensus that I have seen on shocks is that you want 1/3 avail for rebound and 2/3 for compression. The suspension supplier might be working with other numbers; of course, but you should find that out so you can preload your spring accordingly.

interesting stuff, tho', isn't it.

The springs, shocks, and control arms were all supplied by RCC. WIthout digging up the paperwork, I'm pretty sure the spring rate is 300. I haven't measured accurately yet, but I'd say I've got a total of 4-5 inches travel from fully extended to fully compressed (or at least what I think fully compressed is).

I ordered new bearings today. They should be here tommorow. If I have time, I'll mount the hubs, rotors and wheels and then set them down to see how they look.

I'm trying not to worry about this stuff since I'm going to Mexico on Friday. Don't want to preoocupy my trip with thoughts of fiero paranoia

Looks like my paranoia was just that..... paranoia.

I got my bearings for the front hubs today. Installed the hubs, rotors and wheels. I jacked down the car and let it rest on the wheels to see how they sat. There's still a good 4 inches inbetween the top of the tire and the wheel well, but I'm sure I can tighten that up a bit by adjusting the coilovers.

As far as my paranoia about the shocks bottoming out.... I just don't think that's gonna happen. Those things are STIFF. I sat on the front of the car ( I'm about 260 lbs) and the body only went down about 1/2 ". I jumped on the car as much as I could and couldn't bottom it out. It feels pretty solid.

I'd be posting pictures right now, but it seems my website is down. Perhaps I'll get the pictures up tommorow.

wow; that's good tho.
If you happen to see the paper work (no tag on the springs themselves? mine do) on the spring rate maybe you could post that but from what I see elsewhere 300 seems like a reasonable rate too. The biggie is the shock travel available. Did you preload the springs a lot? Are the shocks adjustable and did you set them for a high rate (not that they will hold the car up LOL)
Is the engine in the car (adding to the front weight of course)?

This is all stuff I am getting to at this moment with mine so I am interested. Do you know what your total available shock travel is?
I am just wondering how the control arms are sitting (or are GOING to sit) when the car is on all 4's. And is there some sort of built in "stop" for the control arms (couldn't see it but didn't know where they may have built it in) so that the shocks don't act as stops themselves at either limit of motion.

Questions questions.
but it looks like it is fitting together well.

Did you purchase the hubs, or just bring front rotors to be machined?