Be careful not to overtighten bolts that screw into the plate. Or better yet... it is better to install studs on the adapter plate and use nuts to tighten the transmission on the plate.
Installing studs? Why is it better? Would that create an interference problem with the clutch?
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11:13 AM
v8fiero400 Member
Posts: 963 From: Houston,TX,USA Registered: Jan 2004
I can't comment on the Street Dreams kit but I did install Archie's Automatic Deluxe Kit with a LT1.
The only two issues I had were with the oil relocation kit and the starter.
Archie mentions that leaks can be an issue and supplies a better rubber gasket material for the adapter. I had issues with a slow leak after a couple of months, so I ended up buying a billet aluminum adapter used by dirt track racers. It uses two rubber o-rings for the seal and doesn't require cutting your own gasket. They use them to avoid cracking the cheap adapter from heat or vibration. The bonus is that the billet piece gave me additional clearance to the starter (vital on an auto install)
It did take me a while to shim and align the starter properly so it would work 100%. I ended up tapping and threading the starter block and adding a bracket from the block to the rear of the starter to support it better. I had to replace the solenoid within the first year probably due to the initial alignment issues I had.
These are probably two of the most commons issues I hear with the kit - Archie even warns you in the video! The reality is that they are parts that Archie doesn't produce. In my opinion, most of the problem was that I'm a backyard mechanic installing my first kit - now that I'm experienced a second one would go even smoother.
Here is a picture from a couple years ago of a LT1 mated to the stock TH125c Make sure you get a kit with a video - I almost wore my tape out - otherwise I would have driven Archie nuts...
Ryan
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09:22 AM
Mar 21st, 2006
HarryG Member
Posts: 587 From: Central Ohio, USA Registered: Sep 99
Sorry guys - I had to change my email, so that I can receive mirror emails on my blackberry. It should be corrected in PFF now so please resend the 6 PM's I couldn't access in the Inbox. New email is:
ryan.monaghan@directenergy.com
Thx
------------------ 1986 Fiero2m8 (LT1 NX / 4T60 Roadster in progress)
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05:35 PM
Mar 25th, 2006
HarryG Member
Posts: 587 From: Central Ohio, USA Registered: Sep 99
I had issues with a slow leak after a couple of months, so I ended up buying a billet aluminum adapter used by dirt track racers. It uses two rubber o-rings for the seal and doesn't require cutting your own gasket. They use them to avoid cracking the cheap adapter from heat or vibration. The bonus is that the billet piece gave me additional clearance to the starter (vital on an auto install)
Ryan, Who makes that billet aluminum adapter? Thanks!
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01:49 AM
Apr 26th, 2006
v8fiero400 Member
Posts: 963 From: Houston,TX,USA Registered: Jan 2004
And I have the correct STARTER to use with it new never used that came with the kit I picked up some years ago from an acquaintance but didn't know who manufactured the kit so it never went into use. If the winning bidder is on this site and is interested in it. No I don't have the rest of the kit.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-26-2006).]
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06:38 AM
May 21st, 2006
v8fiero400 Member
Posts: 963 From: Houston,TX,USA Registered: Jan 2004
hmmm if that is a Street Dreams kit the first comment i have to make is that all the stuff for the front of the engine is almost a direct copy of Archies... (the guy who spent the time and energy to create it) Corson/Zumalt's alternator/AC mounts etc are completely different.. and not necessarily better.
personally id go with Archie's kit... His service is second to none ! I have his flywheel and adapter plate on my setup and have a stock feel to the clutch peddle.
im kinda interested in his solstice kit too lol
------------------ GT just waiting for the conversion
84 Fiero Turbo Vortec 4300 Phantom GT L35 block, Syclone Intake and ECM with Moates adapter 50lb injectors, 3 bar map sens, T04B Turbo
www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure. Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
The question I have is? Has anyone used the sd kit and used a High torque mini starter, Well other than me. as to the flywheel I have had to change the ring gear/ well not me but shop I took it to to get it resurfaced. they told me it was a little bit of a pain, being welded, but it cost me no more for the service.
I changed from the 9.5 zeeter to a luk clutch, after 20k hard miles.
I do think the bolts to crank are a little fussy, so I bought some studs and taper seats from AI nut and bolt after torque it down I trimmed the threds and nuts for clearance with the luk clutch there is alot of room I did try the old Zeeter with more trimming needed if I use a new one.
Now the SD flywheel is a very tight fit on the crank so a block and hammer is needed and the studs help alot.
I did have to notch the sub frame for the starter I did not want the starter hanging down.
I did buy a oil filter relocation kit from speed shop Cheap and works great.
I looked at the archie kit and lookes way out of size and I don't like the starter system at all, as for the SD starter most used I have used it a few times before I got the mini starter. It worked just fin for every day use.
Just my opinion. I have seen to much drama with archie here on line and none with SD. I just don't see the cost of Archie's being worth it
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04:19 AM
cire36 Member
Posts: 674 From: Rio Rancho, NM Registered: Feb 2002
I have a "Z" kit. I bought it in 1997. The reason I went with the Z kit is the Archie kit had the water pump and crank pullies and belt sticking out into the wheel well. I did not like the hole that needed to be cut in the wheel well lining and having my belt and pullies out where dirt and rocks thrown up by the wheel can get all over them. I don't know if Archie's kits still have to be installed this way (I really dont know much about Archie's kits).
There is a Fiero here locally that has the exact same Z kit I have. My good buddy Fiero Mojo bought it and has since sold it. I got a chance to see him drive the s#$t out it and must say it made me look foward even more to finally getting mine installed. Job layoffs, child support and life in general has kept me from geting it done.
I have read all the comments about how bad the Z kits is but after seeing the one here being DRIVEN LIKE IT WAS STOLEN, I have less worry about using it. The car here has a 350 w a TPI in it. Mine is a 305 w TPI built almost stock (almost).
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12:45 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
formula400: I'm very curious about your utilizing the stud setup for use with your flywheel. I have a Zumalt kit. I have had great difficulty removing the flat head cap screws on the flywheel once they are torqed on. Do you have a source (A1 nut and bolt?) that you would share for the method and parts that you adopted? I would like to use a conventional clutch setup without the disk hitting the flywheel fasteners. That seems to be the issue that Archie has mentioned. Question: If you could get tapered seats, why didn't you use hex head cap screws as opposed to studs and nuts? It seems that you might gain more clearance with just the capscrew heads and not worry about the studs protruding ever so slightly (I imagine). Thanks.
------------------ '88 Formula V6 '88 GT TPI V8
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02:46 PM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13606 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
Sorry been along time on the road as a truck driver. Shame no time to play with car or get online
I used the studs on the flywheel because the fly is so hard to get on and in position correctly. it is also easy to get a great tourque on them with fly out of the way.
I do have to say putting the studs in loose then fly the replace them with tappered seats ans a huge head cap screw sounds even better? another thought I was going to have fly welded and redriled for boltz insted of the tapered seats. just a thought. oh and as for part number on seats let me get that on next post.
Well I can't comment about the SD/zumalt kit. I can comment about the Archiev8 kit. The product itself seems to be quality. Haven't had any issues with it yet. Whatever machine shop he's using he should stick with.
The only support I received from archie was a rude condescending response to a post I made here questioning an issue I had with his kit. In the end he got more business (me buying a new flywheel from him) and I got to be on the crap end of his attitude with him complaining to me about my shipping request and no "thanks for your business" or "sorry for the misunderstanding". After that I didn't see any reason to waste any more effort in contacting him if I had any questions. Everyone else seems to comment positive about him. Perhaps I just caught him on the wrong day. Regardless, that's my 2 cents.
I found myself suffering from nicotine withdrawl everytime I watched the instructional video. (I don't smoke)
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12:46 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
I remember that thread. I think the biggest engineering issue I saw was using the flat head allen screws. The Z-style kit can work, and I've seen some nice cars with them, but it does have some issues.
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10:36 AM
86V8fiero Member
Posts: 127 From: Watertown NY USA Registered: Sep 2006
Glad to see not everyone bows to the ARICHIE GOD on this site.
You know, you're the one calling me a God, not me.
I'm just a regular guy just like you. If someone gives me some crap I give it back, if they show respect, I'll return it in kind.
The only difference is that I'm a Vendor in the Fiero world & I'm the only vendor who puts himself out here in public everyday for you to take shots at. Everybody know who I am, where I am & what I do.
Do you see any other Fiero vendors (good or bad) who post to public forums everyday? Take a look thru the Vendors listing on this Forum & show me another Vendor who participates in the Tech or General section on a daily basis.
If you've got some kind of beef with me, where I did you wrong or where I hurt your feelings, then tell me about it. Tell us your name, so I can look up in my records what I might have done to hurt your feelings.
Soelascia: Same thing goes for you. Show us the thread where I hurt your feelings. Or give me your name so I can look up my records. I have no way to crossreference screen names to my customers real names & my memory isn't good enough to remember every thread I've answered on this forum. So give us a clue what your problem is so I can look it up.
Show us the facts guys.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 11-14-2006).]
Please insert 86V8fiero in place of Formula88 so there is no further confusion than what has already upset Archie in error.
I believe Formula88's comment is more likely directed towards the forum members that tend to attack individuals for inquiring about a V8 kit other than yours Archie instead of being directed towards you. There's no question about the quality of your product, just the mind set of those individuals who tend to come down on anyone for asking about other related options to the point of insult above and beyond what was inquired about. Doing a search on the subject and looking at the content of the posts easily support that. Mention a V8 kit other than yours and at some point you'll have to hang on to your seat, so you have a very good advantage, via a cult like following that highly recommends your product which is good, and at the same time administer a series of electronic blows on your behalf to the competition.
I don't think that's a bad thing for those who have used your product as a template for their own to suffer, but the others get tossed in the mix.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 11-15-2006).]
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08:03 AM
Paul Prince Member
Posts: 2935 From: Kansas City, MO Registered: Dec 2002
When I first joined the forum I was somewhat upset at times by Archie’s replies to some people, especially those who thought the small block V8 engine did not belong in a Fiero. I considered him at times, rude, condescending and somewhat of a bully. So I stayed out of it as best I could since it did not affect me directly as I was more into the turbo V6 than the V8.
Consider this; Archie is a small businessman with a very narrow niche product. He builds a V8 kit for a car that has not been manufactured for 18 years, a certain percentage of these cars no longer exist, and there are 3800, 3.4, 3.4DOHC, North star and even 2.8 fans, who, would not consider a V8 for whatever reason.
If someone on PFF is saying something derogatory about Archie or his product, he has a right to defend it, especially if he believes the comment is incorrect. If a potential customer were to not buy his product based on someone’s comment, that is money out of his pocket, not the person making the comment, Archie’s pocket. If it were you and your business, you would defend it also, at least I would.
So if you do not like the V8 or Archie for whatever reason, you can say so on a public forum, but name calling and other comments belong on the playground with the other 5 year olds.
One thing that may change your mind about the V8 swap is driving one. How can you comment on a product if you have never used, drove it?
I installed a TPI V8 using Archie’s kit almost 2 years ago for a PFF member; I also drove the finished product. Say what you want, that thing was fast, very fast..........Paul
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10:23 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
You may want to reread my post. I didn't say anything about Formula88's post. Why do people try to make out like I said something I didn't say?
You talk about a "cult like following", Could that be a group of happy customers?
Does Rodney Dickman have a cult like following or a group of happy customers?
Does The Fiero Store have a cult like following or a group of happy customers?
Does Ed Parks have a cult like following or a group of happy customers?
Every one of them had has some negative things said about them from time to time & their happy customers have stepped up to say that their service was good from that particular vendor &/or to correct the record. And their comments are treated as comments of happy customers.
But when my happy customers step up to correct an inaccurate statement or to tell their positive experiences, they're called a cult (or worse). Why is that?
The only difference between those vendors & me is that I participate in this Forum everyday & I'll also step up to correct inaccurate statements. I'll also ask people who make those statements tell us who they are & what their problem is.
So the only difference is that because I'm here everyday & sometimes I'll defend myself, & I'll return disrespect in kind, so my happy customers are called cult members.
Go Figure.
Archie
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:
I believe Formula88's comment is more likely directed towards the forum members that tend to attack individuals for inquiring about a V8 kit other than yours Archie instead of being directed towards you. There's no question about the quality of your product, just the mind set of those individuals who tend to come down on anyone for asking about other related options to the point of insult above and beyond what was inquired about. Doing a search on the subject and looking at the content of the posts easily support that. Mention a V8 kit other than yours and at some point you'll have to hang on to your seat, so you have a very good advantage, via a cult like following that highly recommends your product which is good, and at the same time administer a series of electronic blows on your behalf to the competition.
I don't think that's a bad thing for those who have used your product as a template for their own to suffer, but the others get tossed in the mix.
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 11-14-2006).]
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10:34 AM
PFF
System Bot
Soelasca Member
Posts: 455 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Registered: Sep 2004
Let me restate. The post I made was NOT a post asking YOU for answers. The email I sent directly to YOU was asking YOU for an answer. The post was asking the FORUM for answers. I don't see anything in my post that even remotely slanders you or your business. I had a problem and wanted an answer and I used the resources available to me to get them. Your response was factual and helpful right up until the whiny, sarcastic postscript.
Note the date whiny. It was a weekend. I was actually giving you that "respect" you think you deserve by not disturbing you on a weekend. Imagine that? Someone who actually respects someone else. In return I get the "your wrong, I'm right" response. Thanks for the reciprocating respect whiny!
I called you the following Monday and placed the order for the new flywheel. (No apology for your sarcasm, no "hey, how's my kit workin' for you?", no "is there anything else I can do to help you while you're on the phone?") Since the only way to get things shipped to me is to a P.O. box I asked if you could ship it US mail since all the courier services won't ship to P.O. boxes. You whined for a little while about how you had to actually physically take it down to the post office. I even offered to pay you extra for your "troubles" of taking it down there. You refused the extra payment and I did receive the flywheel in a timely fashion. (Yes, Archie I keep records and notes too. It's all noted and documented)
Since then I've had plenty of questions about this v8 kit. There's lots of information that was left out in your instructions and your video (btw, I'm pretty sure I know what brand of cigarettes you smoke). Honestly if you weren't such a self righteous zealot I probably would've called. However, why would I call to ask a question if I'm going to have to put up with you degrading me for 5 minutes before I get to the answers I need. Take some advice from another businessman who "puts his neck out on the line everyday". You really need to work on your customer service skills. You've obviously put a lot of time into your product... it shows. The amount of time you put into your people skills shows too.
I like fieros like everyone else in this forum. I own 5 of them and have mod plans for all of them (well except one). Those plans USED to include v8 kits and products from v8archie. Now they don't.
You may now proceed with your usual sarcastic remarks in an attempt to make me look bad so you don't have to admit that you were actually......*looks around to make sure noone is watching*..... wrong.
I apologize to the rest of this forum for hijacking this thread. I really just wanted to share my opinion and experience since that is what the post asked for.
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10:53 AM
Soelasca Member
Posts: 455 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Registered: Sep 2004
The only difference between those vendors & me is that I participate in this Forum everyday & I'll also step up to correct inaccurate statements. I'll also ask people who make those statements tell us who they are & what their problem is.
So the only difference is that because I'm here everyday & sometimes I'll defend myself, & I'll return disrespect in kind, so my happy customers are called cult members.
Go Figure.
Archie
Will you step up to correct your disrespectful behavior? Like you, I step up and defend myself from disrespectful bullies like yourself too. I also return disrespect in kind. Keep in mind that I am/was a paying customer. I never once gave you any disrespect and you were the one who handed me disrespect first (proven in the archived post).
So I ask you like you ask everyone else. Prove it. Show us you're the better man that you claim to be. Correct your poor behavior with me. Otherwise you're no better than any other mudslinger here and your words are just as meaningless.
I honestly doubt you have the ability to do it.
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11:03 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Let me restate. The post I made was NOT a post asking YOU for answers. The email I sent directly to YOU was asking YOU for an answer. The post was asking the FORUM for answers. I don't see anything in my post that even remotely slanders you or your business. I had a problem and wanted an answer and I used the resources available to me to get them. Your response was factual and helpful right up until the whiny, sarcastic postscript.
Note the date whiny. It was a weekend. I was actually giving you that "respect" you think you deserve by not disturbing you on a weekend. Imagine that? Someone who actually respects someone else. In return I get the "your wrong, I'm right" response. Thanks for the reciprocating respect whiny!
I called you the following Monday and placed the order for the new flywheel. (No apology for your sarcasm, no "hey, how's my kit workin' for you?", no "is there anything else I can do to help you while you're on the phone?") Since the only way to get things shipped to me is to a P.O. box I asked if you could ship it US mail since all the courier services won't ship to P.O. boxes. You whined for a little while about how you had to actually physically take it down to the post office. I even offered to pay you extra for your "troubles" of taking it down there. You refused the extra payment and I did receive the flywheel in a timely fashion. (Yes, Archie I keep records and notes too. It's all noted and documented)
Since then I've had plenty of questions about this v8 kit. There's lots of information that was left out in your instructions and your video (btw, I'm pretty sure I know what brand of cigarettes you smoke). Honestly if you weren't such a self righteous zealot I probably would've called. However, why would I call to ask a question if I'm going to have to put up with you degrading me for 5 minutes before I get to the answers I need. Take some advice from another businessman who "puts his neck out on the line everyday". You really need to work on your customer service skills. You've obviously put a lot of time into your product... it shows. The amount of time you put into your people skills shows too.
I like fieros like everyone else in this forum. I own 5 of them and have mod plans for all of them (well except one). Those plans USED to include v8 kits and products from v8archie. Now they don't.
You may now proceed with your usual sarcastic remarks in an attempt to make me look bad so you don't have to admit that you were actually......*looks around to make sure noone is watching*..... wrong.
I apologize to the rest of this forum for hijacking this thread. I really just wanted to share my opinion and experience since that is what the post asked for.
quote
Originally posted by Soelasca:
Will you step up to correct your disrespectful behavior? Like you, I step up and defend myself from disrespectful bullies like yourself too. I also return disrespect in kind. Keep in mind that I am/was a paying customer. I never once gave you any disrespect and you were the one who handed me disrespect first (proven in the archived post).
So I ask you like you ask everyone else. Prove it. Show us you're the better man that you claim to be. Correct your poor behavior with me. Otherwise you're no better than any other mudslinger here and your words are just as meaningless.
I honestly doubt you have the ability to do it.
Well Sir, your hatred is so deep that you're actually ignoring the facts.
First of all, thanks for posting the link, it gave me some dates to look thru old EMail to find that your name is Keith McDonnell. That information makes it easier to find the transactions in my bookkeeping program.
Anyone who reads the archived thread that you posted can see that I didn't insult you. The only thing that I said was that it'd be nice would be an email or call to let me try to resolve the issue. BTW, that thread ended in positive manor with me offering to take the Flywheel you'd ordered 6 years earlier in on trade for the flywheel you needed.
In this thread you state that I disrespected you by answering your questions in you thread & that your post to PFF was for FORUM input & that I was supposed to respond to the EMail you sent.
Well I found the initial EMail you sent on this problem & you sent it to me 10 minutes AFTER you started the post asking for FORUM help. AND that EMail REFERS me to the post you HAD JUST STARTED. And you didn't tell me that I was barred from responding to you via that thread. Earlier in this thread you give the impression that you had contacted me before you started that thread & didn't get a response but in the thread you link you clearly state that you are going to send an email to me.
Here's a copy of that EMail just in case you don't have it in your records.......
quote
----- Original Message ----- From: Soelas Soelas To: Archie@v8archie.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:27 PM Subject: problem with flywheel you supplied me
Hi Archie. I bought an economy kit from you MANY years ago. I think it was probably 1999. It was for a standard shift car.
I got around to fitting the engine to the transmission today and the flywheel that was supplied has the wrong bolt pattern and pilot dimensions for the crank of my engine. I'm not sure what is wrong with the situation other than the obvious.
My main goal here is to get the RIGHT flywheel so I can continue. Please let me know if you can supply me with the right flywheel or where I can get one.
The flywheel dimensions are Bolt circle: 3.58" Inner diameter of pilot: 2.47"
The engine crank dimensions are Bolt circle: 3.00" Outer diameter of pilot: 2.07"
I've posted pictures on PFF too, so you can look there if you want.
So in the real world, you started your thread at 4:17pm ET & sent me an EMail refering me to that thread at 3:27pm CT. Now you're crying that I disrespected you when I posted that you could have sent me an EMail or called to try to let me resolve your problem. So when I answered in that thread that you could have given me an EMail to try to let me resolve your issue, I was not dissing you because you IN FACT had waited until after starting the thread to EMail me about the problem.
BTW, I checked my dates & I'll remember that weekend forever because that was the weekend my mother died.
You say that I complained about shipping to a P.O.Box number. My only statement to you on that subject was an EMail I sent you on 1-9-05 at 10:35pm that said " I can't ship via UPS to a P.O. box number, need a street address."
Now, I think you owe me an apolgy for all your name calling when in reality, I haven't dissed you yet.
Will you step up to correct your disrespectful behavior?
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 11-14-2006).]
I rest my case. You are a complete bully. I ask you to set something straight and all you can do is talk about time stamps, make accusations that I barred you from responding to an email, post my full name in some sort of attempt to scare me (I'm surprised you don't say "I know where you live"), lie about words you said on the phone, twist things that were posted in email and then follow it up by using a personal tragedy to draw public sympathy??? That's pretty low.
oh yeah and then you demand an apology from me.
Well let me be the better man here Archie (notsurewhatyourlastnameisbutI'llbetyoudon'thavethegutstopostitherealongwithyouraddress) and show you how it's done.
If I had psychic powers and knew that your mother had died that weekend there's not a hope in HELL I would've even come close to trying to do anything to antagonize you. Truth is, that weekend I was very frustrated with the car when I discovered I wasn't going to be on schedule. I tried to think of every possible reason why that flywheel wasn't right. If you noticed, me ordering the wrong flywheel was one of those options (yes, Im fully aware I can be wrong). In the end that was exactly the problem. I ordered the wrong kit. I never whined about it. I never once tried to pin the fault on anyone or anything else, ESPECIALLY YOU. I ordered the right flywheel and paid for it without complaint.
Your attitude online AND on the phone was very abrasive. Yes, you can cut it up and analyze it anyway you want but that's how I felt and perceived your attitude to be. Given the tragedies you suffered at that time I don't think I would be very far off the mark in saying you probably were fairly abrasive (and rightfully so. I would be too).
Now that I understand why you acted that way. I apologize. I hope you can find it in you to forgive my behavior as I have yours.
Really, there has been nothing good that's come out of all this. You've lost a customer and my respect. I've lost a supplier of a product I'd like to buy again. The two of us have made complete a$$e$ out of ourselves and we're both left with hurt feelings. Well, I can't speak for you but I am hurt. Hopefully one day you'll come around and realize that you too are human.
You may want to reread my post. I didn't say anything about Formula88's post. Why do people try to make out like I said something I didn't say?
You talk about a "cult like following", Could that be a group of happy customers?
Does Rodney Dickman have a cult like following or a group of happy customers?
Does The Fiero Store have a cult like following or a group of happy customers?
Does Ed Parks have a cult like following or a group of happy customers?
Every one of them had has some negative things said about them from time to time & their happy customers have stepped up to say that their service was good from that particular vendor &/or to correct the record. And their comments are treated as comments of happy customers.
But when my happy customers step up to correct an inaccurate statement or to tell their positive experiences, they're called a cult (or worse). Why is that?
The only difference between those vendors & me is that I participate in this Forum everyday & I'll also step up to correct inaccurate statements. I'll also ask people who make those statements tell us who they are & what their problem is.
So the only difference is that because I'm here everyday & sometimes I'll defend myself, & I'll return disrespect in kind, so my happy customers are called cult members.
Go Figure.
Archie
I'm sorry sir I meant 86V8fiero.
If I said something wrong I apologize, my intent was to calm things and it seems I made it worse. I have no gripe with you, what you do neither those who support what you do for which I even applaud. I'm a creative writer and my choice of "cult like following" should have been interpreted as loyal. As for the other vendors you mentioned I believe you have a stronger following than any of them. So to set the record straight nothing I wrote was intended to insight debate or distract anyone, just promote a peaceful dialogue. On second thought, my post wasn't even about you, or anything you said in particular it refers to individuals who support you or anyone else for that matter in an unprofessional manner.
You are right, you are an active member of this forum and perhaps that in some way is part of the problem you are encountering here. It doesn't look good for the CEO of a company to interact with the customer base in the manner that I have observed here. It would be better for you to have someone respond on your behalf. That's my constructive opinion on the matter. No hard feelings intended.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 11-15-2006).]
next rebuttal?
