you can use a small lock instead of a pin
but mostly who ever wants in a car will get in
you can only slow them, but not stop them

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

im going to put off the hood pin idea

what about a lexan sunroof? just have a peice of lexan cut to the aproximate size then shape it a little and mount the brackets ect....
stock sunroof is 18 pounds

[This message has been edited by antinull.com (edited 01-13-2007).]

A lexan sunroof would be a good idea. I am was able to stores in Mobile AL and Houston TX when I lived in each place. They should even have scraps that would fit. I bought a scrap 1/8th inch and cut it for headlight covers when I had a 1984 lowered Mazda SE-5. (Lowered the right way with the tires going up into the fenders during suspension travel, and still 4.5 in ground clearance. Performance before style!) I had asked at that time about custom curving panels and was told that that was possible. Can't hurt to ask a local supplier.
Good Luck!

In this weight reduction section, I have to ask, how much of a difference in handling does 96 pounds make on a Fiero?
An Ecotec LSJ, fully dressed, weighs 347 pounds. An LS2 V8 weighs 443 pounds fully dressed.

Hence the question.

96 pounds makes a fairly big difference. But you have to also consider the HP & torque differences in the engines. What are those figures? You can do a HP-to-weight ratio comparison. I'm hoping for a better (less) than 10 lbs. per HP on the LSP; it will be pretty quick at that (stock is around 19.6 lbs. per HP). However, with my V8 Z car, I'm trying for 5 lbs. per hp. :-D
When looking at handling only, 96 lbs. is still fairly significant (inertia & all), but you also have to look at where it's removed & the balance of the car.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

America - made in China! :-(

quote Originally posted by Ravant: In this weight reduction section, I have to ask, how much of a difference in handling does 96 pounds make on a Fiero? An Ecotec LSJ, fully dressed, weighs 347 pounds. An LS2 V8 weighs 443 pounds fully dressed. Hence the question.

well, in a 1/4 mile, 96 pounds is roughly 0.1 seconds - a dragstrip "rule of thumb"

in handling - means alot. and easy way to see is to take some timed hotlaps, see what you can do. now, do it again, except with Carmen Electra in the passnger seat. shes about 100 pounds, aint she? now see your times. they're slower.
it basicly means more braking. harder getting out of turns. and, depending on where the weight is - more body roll.
now, properly placed wieght can in fact help. mostly just on ovals, where you only turn one way. put the weight on the inside (of the turn - obviously inside the car....)

To be honest basic weight reduction is good. I'll take less weight over HP any day. Anyway the absolute most critical areas to loose weight are:

Unsprung & rotational mass.

if you install wheels that are 3 pounds lighter than stock you get (3x4 =12 12x8 =96) So even though you only lost 12 pounds of unsprung weight it affect the car as if you lost 96 pounds.

Tires don't forget about these! On tireracks website if you click on "spec" of what tire you are looking at they give you the weight of it. I believe the Michelin PS2 are some of the lightest summer performance tires you can get.

Rims, I like the Enkei RPF1. The 17x7 wheel is only 15.2 pounds!!!!!

On my Evo the stock Enkei wheels in 17X8 are roughly 20lb. I picked up a set of MR wheels that are 3lb lighter. The stock Advan 235/45/17's are 25lb each. I have a set of PS2's on the way that are 23lb each. Now add in the Performance Friction 2 piece rotors. Thats another 2lb per corner reduction. So in all I lost 28 pounds but that is 224lb worth of unsprung/rotational mass! See how it adds up?

More rotational/unsprung items:
Clutch
Flywheel
Crank
Rods
Pistons
Pulleys
Harmonic balancer
A/C comp
Water pump
Cam
Valvetrain
Suspension arms/links
Hubs
Brake calipers
Shocks/Struts

etc

I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-04-2007).]

So then - figuring an LS2 V8 vs. an LSJ I4 (there is a 96 pound difference, but about 100 horsepower difference.) But - I'm going for autocross, so the LSJ would still be better? I'm also thinking of ease of installation. The LS2 + G6 6-speed + install kit is easier to find than a parts LSJ-powered . And - the LSJ has an electronic throttle body, so that'd be even harder to play with.

But the 96 pounds definitely does make a difference off the back of the car, then.

Yes 96 pounds off the back will help but you really need to get the car on corner scales and move the weight around to get the best balance & performance. I found I had less understeer during AutoX runs (with my old fiero) if I left the spare tire & jack in the car.

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2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Nurburgring WARRIOR!!!! I survived the "Green Hell".

so it is widely known that our doors are super heavy.

Question - does most of the weight come from the large steel beams in the middle of the door?

if so could we replace them with
lighter weight tubular steel?
tubular aluminum?
tubular or rod titanium? (cost obviously being a factor on this one)

how much of each of these materials would we need to get close to the strength of the current steel rods in the door?

[This message has been edited by Madess (edited 08-03-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Madess: so it is widely known that our doors are super heavy. Question - does most of the weight come from the large steel beams in the middle of the door? if so could we replace them with lighter weight tubular steel? tubular aluminum? tubular or rod titanium? (cost obviously being a factor on this one) how much of each of these materials would we need to get close to the strength of the current steel rods in the door?

for race use - I would say fully remove, and use tubular support from the roll cage instead.
if for drag strip use - I would say have a 2nd set of doors, which are fully stripped, even to the point of plexiglass, to swap on for raceday.

Just a correction - the ecotec 2.2L non-supercharged fully dressed according to GM (I'll post a link when I can find it) weighs 307 lbs. The supercharger adds about 20lbs so a fully dressed 2.0 SC ecotec should weigh about 330lbs.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: for race use - I would say fully remove, and use tubular support from the roll cage instead. if for drag strip use - I would say have a 2nd set of doors, which are fully stripped, even to the point of plexiglass, to swap on for raceday.

Well, the glass and the lift mechanism are pretty heavy. I completely gutted a door except for the side beam. Its down to about 35 lbs. without the door skin, so figure about 40 lbs. I plan to trim the side beam to about 1.5"-2" leaving just enough to attach the outer skin. However, I will need to modify the full cage I got from Kirk Racing to add Nascar bars (at least two bars that protrude into the door on the driver's side. The mirrors are rather heavy as well. I will remove the original mirrors on my track car. However, I'm not aware of a good alternative for the street.


As far as swapping the doors is concerned, it isn't quite that simple. Those original doors are heavy. Remember, for drag racing, you will want some thin Lexan to seal the window for better aerodynamics at the track.


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FierOmar

[This message has been edited by FierOmar (edited 08-04-2007).]

Removing weight can help tremendously in the corners. Another uncommonly used trick is to lower the weight. If you find something that can be moved to a lower position on the car, do it. Total weight is important but having a low center of gravity is very important.

Here is a few thing I have done in the past. I wont do anything permanent to my car for this. I enjoy driving it on the street with all of the ammenities way too much to dedicate it to racing alone.

-if you have a sunroof remove it (15lbs)

-remove spare and jack (40lbs)

-remove both seats (8 nuts) and replace drivers only with a light weight racing seat. Unless your taking along a passenger you dont need two seats. (50lbs)

-empty trunk. Tools, fluids, ect. (5-20lbs)

-remove headlight buckets and motors 8 nuts (20 lbs)

-If your not already go with light weight wheels. Motegi Track Lites weigh around 11 lbs each for 15's and are somewhat affordable. (50lbs)

-Get yourself an extra set of doors, gut them to remove all the weight you can, then reinforce with tubing. This includes teh impace beams. It doesn't need to survive an impact just keep you in the car. Change these out with the stock doors on race day by removing the hinge pins. (100+lbs)

-Move battery to the front and cut out old battery tray. This should be done anyway because the benifits are well worth the price. It doesn't drop weight but it moves it from top passenger side rear to front center of car, down low. Noticeable difference.

All weights are approx. Obviously you could take it a step further but you get the idea. I can do all of this in about an hour and drop between 200-300 lbs which translates to ~20-30hp and much better cornering. When your done you put the car back together. What you end up with is a car that looks stock on race day and IS stock every other day.

My car is an 85 GT (84's and 85's are lighter) with only powerwindows and decklid release so its pretty light already. 2600-2700 steet, 2200-2300 race day. It will be a 4.9 soon and I should actually drop weight with the install. The whole car is balanced better since the mods also.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-04-2007).]

Well, seeing as no one has mentioned this, I took the front crossmember out of an 88 once, I didn't weigh it, but I would estimate that it weighed around 120 - 130 lbs. Replace the crossmember with aluminum, and while you're at it, aluminum a - arms, and spindles with hubs and install a power steering rack with quicker steering( since youll be designing the corssmembe anyway ) . The likely candidates for this changeover would be 88-96 C4 corvette front suspension, 97-2005 C5 corvette front suspension, and 2006-2007 Solstice front suspension. I did a quick check on prices and the Solstice suspension prices seem to be somewhat reasonable, even brand new. Only problems are that the corvette hubs are 5x4.75 in bolt pattern and the solstice hubs are 5x110mm.

Lets, see, a quick estimate is that alum crossmember and suspension, would probably save 30 - 40 lbs, maybe not that much with the bigger brakes.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never weighed a cradle, but I don't think it's worth replacing the rear cradle with aluminum, too much trouble and I think an aluminum one would weigh almost as much.

I've seen one Fiero that weighed in at 2200 lbs (That's what I remember the driver claiming). You really, really, really (I do mean really) don't want to use that one as a DD. 0 interior. Sheet aluminum bucket seats. Gut the doors and use tubular roll cage. Cut out the trunk. Cut out everything out of the front end you can.

On the flipside, I wish I had been able to get a chance to drive that beast. 350-ish HP 4.3 v6. I'm not saying that you can't get a lot of weight out, but I don't know if you'll be able to make the 2200 without a lot of exotic materials. I don't think the racer that I knew had aluminum spindles or anything, but the Fiero already has aluminum brake calipers, and 9.75" pancake rotors really aren't that heavy.

No doubt you'll be able to shave a lot of weight out of the car, and it will drive a lot nicer, but I don't know if you'll have a streetable car at 2200 lbs. Good luck and let us know how you make out with it

ive seen tubular front crossmembers for kit cars big loss in weight like -50 and coilovers w aluminum adj are lighter than stock.
also rmove your rear fin 10lbs its a mid engine car your a$$ an't going over 200mph in a corner eather.
replace with aluminum or remove all steel engine brackets good for at least 5lbs
covette light kit in the rear good for something.
all that rubber shielding on the bottom of the engine compartment better for cooling to.
clean all the road grime off the bottom of the car and engine i must have removed 10 lbs of grime off the old 2.8 i pulled out of my car. not mentining the grime on the rest of the underbelly.
rigg your light up with a spring and a push latch to open and close.
i could tink of so many things u dont need.
just go through and ask your self do i realy need this???????????????????

quote Originally posted by niemann99: Well, seeing as no one has mentioned this, I took the front crossmember out of an 88 once, I didn't weigh it, but I would estimate that it weighed around 120 - 130 lbs.

the crossmember itself weighs 45 - 50 lbs I was concidering lightening it up but it just did not seem worth the effort. I figured I could safely remove about 10lbs and retain its strength

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 10-26-2007).]

Norm's tilt front end also saves weight on the car also.

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 10-26-2007).]