Would anyone out there be interested in trying to put a 4.4L S/C Cadillac STS-V motor in a Fiero? I live in central IL. So anyone within 300 miles of I-80/I-39 interchange please give me a shout. I would like to see if anyone would like to basically design a way to fit this motor. 440 stock hp, can you imagine that? Any constructive criticism is greatly appeciated.
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10:18 AM
PFF
System Bot
Unsafe At Any Speed Member
Posts: 2299 From: Cheyenne, WY Registered: Feb 2003
Would anyone out there be interested in trying to put a 4.4L S/C Cadillac STS-V motor in a Fiero? I live in central IL. So anyone within 300 miles of I-80/I-39 interchange please give me a shout. I would like to see if anyone would like to basically design a way to fit this motor. 440 stock hp, can you imagine that? Any constructive criticism is greatly appeciated.
$$$
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10:26 AM
fieroboy_IL Member
Posts: 152 From: rural Utica, IL Registered: Jan 2007
If you'll actually pay that and complete the swap that is awesome. Most of the time threads like this are BS though. People constantly talk about swapping in this or that engine and it rarely actually happens.
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11:01 AM
midengineracer Member
Posts: 196 From: Kaiserslautern, GE Registered: Dec 2006
Isn't that a RWD car? That means you can't use the original transmission and so it will have the same issues as some of the higher powered swaps when driven hard. If you could bolt it to the new 6-speed it would be better I think. I would love to hear about it on the forum but I don't think I would spend the money to do that myself. And of course, if it was done, lots of pictures to document things!!!
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11:06 AM
fieroboy_IL Member
Posts: 152 From: rural Utica, IL Registered: Jan 2007
AS FAR AS I KNOW IT IS RWD. I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO DO THIS, BUT I DO NOT HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO DO THIS ALONE. SO ANYONE WHO HAS PUT A NORTHSTAR IN THEIR FIERO, PLEASE ADVISE ON DIFFICULTY OF INSTALL. AND ANYONE WHO WOULD KNOW WHAT TRANNY I COULD USE?
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11:14 AM
fieroboy_IL Member
Posts: 152 From: rural Utica, IL Registered: Jan 2007
1) You'll have to use a 4t80e transmission. Nothing else will hold the torque. This means you'll have to get a transmission controller. 2) You will have to relocate the water fittings, because IIRC on the RWD engines they're in a bad place. Remote electric water pump. 3) You'll have to use a computer capable of controlling VVT phasors. I don't know of any that do that. If you do find one, it will probably be around $3000.
All told, you'll be spending about $20,000+ on a swap.
There are a lot of cheaper ways to go even faster.
[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 02-05-2007).]
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12:12 PM
fieroboy_IL Member
Posts: 152 From: rural Utica, IL Registered: Jan 2007
Ok, ryan.hess. I do not want to twin turbo a 3.4. $12,000 in turbos alone. If I do that, I will be pumping about 20 psi. I do not want no wussy 7psi crap. I want min. 300hp. And that can not be done with a 2.8/3.1/3.4 engine, naturally aspirated. So what would you recommend for a worthy install? I do not want to just put an Archie's V8 kit in my car, either.
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12:53 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
CAN YOU DO THAT INSTALL? IF YOU CAN DO IT FOR $6,000 THEN I WILL GET THAT DONE. HOW MUCH WEIGHT IS THAT GOING TO ADD TO THE REAR OF MY CAR? 2.8 HAS A SPUN ROD BEARING.
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02:19 PM
PFF
System Bot
AJxtcman Member
Posts: 1098 From: Rock Hill SC Registered: Nov 2006
For the 4.4L, no. But I can go to a local car dealer and get one for a 2006 Cadillac STS-V. The 2.8L is still in the car and does run. It has no power and idles like sh*t, but still runs.
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02:55 PM
fieroboy_IL Member
Posts: 152 From: rural Utica, IL Registered: Jan 2007
You can get 300HP on an NA 3.4, you just have to pay for it and do the work right. The motor will not be as reliable when used hard as a bigger engine that isn't working as hard, or an engine that is forced induction but if you aren't planning on racing it around constantly, you could build up a nice pr or DOHC 3.4 to make 300HP.
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03:13 PM
fieroboy_IL Member
Posts: 152 From: rural Utica, IL Registered: Jan 2007
You can get 300HP on an NA 3.4, you just have to pay for it and do the work right. The motor will not be as reliable when used hard as a bigger engine that isn't working as hard, or an engine that is forced induction but if you aren't planning on racing it around constantly, you could build up a nice pr or DOHC 3.4 to make 300HP.
I have been told by everyone that 300 is untouchable. Now you are saying that it is possible. So what "sardonyx.." told me in a private email is wrong? What type of components would I need for that? Meaning what cam, crank, heads, intake, rods, piston shape, etc.. to use?
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03:19 PM
flames4me Member
Posts: 915 From: Woodbury MN / Hammond WI Registered: Jun 2005
SBC!! i have 400hp, daily driveable, and when i go to the track ill have nitrous on top of that, somewhere in between 100-150 shot... yes, i have a 500+ hp fiero for a hell of a lot less than any other 500 hp engine swap. i have it set up so that without the nitrous i can get the front tires off the ground shifting fom 1st to 2nd gear. and this is daily driveable.
------------------ 1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC Bored .30, Fully balanced and blueprinted 13.93@101mph as it is on the street. ... ... ! 350ci 400hp/tq SBC, 4 bolt main Spec Stage 3, Nitrous Oxide, many extras. 87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.
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03:35 PM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
I've never seen a NA 3.4 Pushrod come anywhere NEAR 300hp. The highest I've ever heard of was Oreif's engine that put down about 225, and that was about as built as it can get. A 3.4 DOHC I'd be more inclined to believe, but even then, I doubt it would do it NA. Boost either one and you could do it.
And the 4.4 is absolutely nothing like the 4.9.
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03:37 PM
PFF
System Bot
AJxtcman Member
Posts: 1098 From: Rock Hill SC Registered: Nov 2006
SBC!! i have 400hp, daily driveable, and when i go to the track ill have nitrous on top of that, somewhere in between 100-150 shot... yes, i have a 500+ hp fiero for a hell of a lot less than any other 500 hp engine swap. i have it set up so that without the nitrous i can get the front tires off the ground shifting fom 1st to 2nd gear. and this is daily driveable.
I WOULD RATHER LET THE EARTH TAKE MY FIERO THAN PUT A 350 IN IT. THAT IS JUST WHAT I THINK. I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO CUT THE REAR OF MY CAR ALL UP TO FIT A SBC 350. AND THAT MOTOR IS NOT STOCK. HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY TO GET IT TO 400HP? AND TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE NITROUS?
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03:47 PM
fieroboy_IL Member
Posts: 152 From: rural Utica, IL Registered: Jan 2007
I've never seen a NA 3.4 Pushrod come anywhere NEAR 300hp. The highest I've ever heard of was Oreif's engine that put down about 225, and that was about as built as it can get. A 3.4 DOHC I'd be more inclined to believe, but even then, I doubt it would do it NA. Boost either one and you could do it.
And the 4.4 is absolutely nothing like the 4.9.
I concur on every bit of this. I just finished building up a 3.4 PR. Lots of porting work. Big cam, etc. Haven't dynoed it yet, but if it makes 200hp I'll be happy. If it makes more than that, I'll be amazed. The only things I didn't do were use high compression pistons or mill the heads. I also used a smaller TB than Oreif.
300 or pretty close is probably possible with a 3.4 TDC. It'd be a stretch, however. Kind of pushing the limits of the lower end, by then. (I expect I'll get some grief for that remark. Just my feeling. Nothing more.)
The easiest way to get 300 without going to a V8 is probably going to be a 3800SC, with a few minor mods. There are several folks here that are running 12s and even 11s on daily-driveable 3800SCs. And you'll have that supercharger whine, to boot.
------------------ Raydar 88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe................................................ Read Nealz Nuze!Praise the Lowered!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-05-2007).]
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05:36 PM
AJxtcman Member
Posts: 1098 From: Rock Hill SC Registered: Nov 2006
Would anyone out there be interested in trying to put a 4.4L S/C Cadillac STS-V motor in a Fiero? I live in central IL. So anyone within 300 miles of I-80/I-39 interchange please give me a shout. I would like to see if anyone would like to basically design a way to fit this motor. 440 stock hp, can you imagine that? Any constructive criticism is greatly appeciated.
You know, it is kind of unfortunate how a guy can ask a legitimate question, and instead of a legitimate answer to the question he gets opinions on every other direstion he could go or everything and anything that has absolutely nothing to do with installing a 4.4 L Caddy motor. Surely we can do better than this. If he has a good deal on a 4.4 it might be a really nifty mod. Maybe a member can help him.
Just an observation
Arn
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08:07 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
4.4l = money pit. Ask stimpy what the first SC3800 cost, 11 grand for that swap? This caddy motor would have to be installed as it is in the caddy. Rickady GT would be able to elaborate on how dificult that is.
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08:42 PM
PFF
System Bot
AJxtcman Member
Posts: 1098 From: Rock Hill SC Registered: Nov 2006
The stock PCM will work just fine!!!! It is a CAN or GM high speed LAN system. EFILIVE will be able to take care of a manual trans conversion. If you want a 4 speed auto that would be no problem. If you want a 6 speed auto a can look in to it. I beleave it will work if it is an 08.
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09:14 PM
qwikgta Member
Posts: 4670 From: Virginia Beach, VA Registered: Jan 2001
Please people do some research. 05 on up the PCMs are easy to work with. In the near future it will be even better. I dislike MACs and I am a PC guy. I dislike IPODs and like creative products. I keep up to date on a lot. PCMs are just one of them. IPODs suck! You can polish it all you want it is still a turd with good PR. For almost 3 years Northstar pcms have been open for modification. I am sorry for the rant, but I hate IPODS. Creative sued them and won. I love new technology.
Wow. I honestly don't know what's going on in this thread. An explosion of engine ideas...
quote
Originally posted by fieroboy_IL:
Where would I find info on this motor? And is another 60-80 NA hp possible?
A good engine choice, in my opinion, is the 3800 SC. 260 hp stock, and there's a lot of aftermarket parts to get more power out of it. You generally don't have to cut your trunk up either. It's something that people have experience with, less "wow" factor than a 4.4, but less expensive as well.
A 4.4 isn't impossible, but as you can see from the responses in this thread, there aren't many people who can help out...
PS... I don't mean to stir things up, don't mean to sound negative either. BTW, welcome to the forum
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10:47 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by AJxtcman: The stock PCM will work just fine!!!! It is a CAN or GM high speed LAN system. EFILIVE will be able to take care of a manual trans conversion. If you want a 4 speed auto that would be no problem. If you want a 6 speed auto a can look in to it. I beleave it will work if it is an 08.
I'm sure it will if you install everything from the -V car into the fiero. Like P8ntman said, Rickaddy did it with his Short*. Aftermarket computers that run COP like his V6 are expensive, so instead he moved all the needed systems over to the fiero.
Unless you can get those modules from a wrecked car though, they'll start to add up. And you get the added joy of trying to figure out how to install wheel sensors, etc.
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11:14 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14274 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Would anyone out there be interested in trying to put a 4.4L S/C Cadillac STS-V motor in a Fiero? I live in central IL. So anyone within 300 miles of I-80/I-39 interchange please give me a shout. I would like to see if anyone would like to basically design a way to fit this motor. 440 stock hp, can you imagine that? Any constructive criticism is greatly appeciated.
If you have the cash, I'll tackle the swap. Parts money up front. I live in VA, but can transport.
If all you want is 300 HP, find a VIN 9 FWD engine and drop it in stock. A 300 HP Fiero will crack 12's in the 1/4 mile.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 02-05-2007).]
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11:23 PM
Feb 6th, 2007
AJxtcman Member
Posts: 1098 From: Rock Hill SC Registered: Nov 2006
I'm sure it will if you install everything from the -V car into the fiero. Like P8ntman said, Rickaddy did it with his Short*. Aftermarket computers that run COP like his V6 are expensive, so instead he moved all the needed systems over to the fiero.
Unless you can get those modules from a wrecked car though, they'll start to add up. And you get the added joy of trying to figure out how to install wheel sensors, etc.
Ryan wake up do some research. I know you have done some great stuff on an old PCM, but If you look into this one I believe you can use it on a 79 Buick Regal. The first car that GM had CCC. They are really slick.
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07:03 AM
AJxtcman Member
Posts: 1098 From: Rock Hill SC Registered: Nov 2006
I'm sure it will if you install everything from the -V car into the fiero. Like P8ntman said, Rickaddy did it with his Short*. Aftermarket computers that run COP like his V6 are expensive, so instead he moved all the needed systems over to the fiero.
Unless you can get those modules from a wrecked car though, they'll start to add up. And you get the added joy of trying to figure out how to install wheel sensors, etc.
LS2 edit will let you tune many of the latest 2005-2007 cars and trucks. Please see the vehicles and engines supported below, and start tuning!
In 2005 GM released the LS2, GEN IV engine, and started using the GMLAN communications interface. In 2006 GM released new ECM's for the LS2/LS7and started using them to control many of their cars. In 2007 GM expanded these into a broad range of their trucks.
LS2-edit supports:
2007 cars Corvette LS2 and LS7 engines Pontiac Solstice LE5 Cadillac STS, CTS-V, DTS, XLR Saturn Aura, Sky Cadillac CTS-V LS2 Chevrolet Impala/Monte Carlo SS LS4 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP LS4 Chevrolet Cobalt LE5 Saturn ION LE5 Pontiac G6 LE5 Pontiac Pursuit LE5 Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx SS LZ9 Buick Lucerne, Lacrosse Pontiac G6 LZ9
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