the benefits of using an efficent, lightweight, modern, economical V6 engine in your Fiero as opposed to using an expensive heavy inefficient gas hungry V8 engine.
IMO the gas hungry V8 is destined for obscurity within the next few years and will become a novelty at best. Nothing wrong with a V8 swap if that's what you want but times are a changin and dinosaurs can't live forever.
As for the V8 being a dinosaur. An argument can be made that far fewer are being produced today than ever before.
Now you state:
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
The 3800SC weighs in at 445 lbs. It's a cast iron engine with a big supercharger and a heavy bottom end. The LS2 engine is a very advanced state of the art V8 engine with an all aluminum block that weighs 443 lbs. IMO for a V8 swap this engine offers outstanding possibilities.
Aside from the fact that the "efficent, lightweight, modern, economical V6 engine " you are presently swapping in your car is a 30 year old designed cast iron engine, you now state the V-8 is a "very advanced state of the art V-8", What about the V-8 being "destined for obscurity"????
BTW ~ $13000 is most likely the "installed price". The cost of an LS2 swap depends greatly on the cost of the engine. A crate LS2 on GM website can be bought for $5649, On Ebay, used, they range from $5000 up to $9000 with all the accessories (harness and ECM) .The 3800SC Series III is on sale thru GM for $4892. You spent nearly $5000 on your 3.4L turbo swap. Then again there is the kit/installation costs. The 3800SC about $12000 installed. Many can do it for way less doing the work themselves but then again so can the V-8's. How much is your budget for just the 3800SC you are building??
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 05-14-2007).]
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01:44 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15478 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
Aside from the fact that the "efficent, lightweight, modern, economical V6 engine " you are presently swapping in your car is a 30 year old designed cast iron engine, you now state the V-8 is a "very advanced state of the art V-8", What about the V-8 being "destined for obscurity"????
BTW ~ $13000 is most likely the "installed price". The cost of an LS2 swap depends greatly on the cost of the engine. A crate LS2 on GM website can be bought for $5649, On Ebay, used, they range from $5000 up to $9000 with all the accessories (harness and ECM) .The 3800SC Series III is on sale thru GM for $4892. You spent nearly $5000 on your 3.4L turbo swap. Then again there is the kit/installation costs. The 3800SC about $12000 installed. Many can do it for way less doing the work themselves but then again so can the V-8's. How much is your budget for just the 3800SC you are building??
There are certainly some advanced V8 and even V-12 engines around but as time goes on I'd be willing to bet that the production numbers of these engines will dwindle. Sure Vetttes, Bentleys, Cadillacs, Lambos and trucks might still have them but can we state that the the popularity of the V8 will increase?. Sure doesn't look like it to me. I'll get some production numbers and we can go from there. The LS2 while advanced has it roots in the SBC design which can be argued is over 40 years old by the same logic as saying the 3800SC is a 30 yr old design. As for my 3.4L turbo I've never claimed that it's a prime example of what should be done. . It's fast for what it is but represents too much invested for the performance that it provides. Never said that this was the way to go, only that I did the swap. About $1800 of the swap cost though was dedicated to beefing up the trans and other suspension parts. This engine will just go in my other Fiero. Still fun to dive it. As you know the 3800 platform has undergone a large number of revisons and modifications over it's life. If it were 30 years old as you state that would put it's debut at 1977- I don't think this is quite correct The 3800SC series III has had several bottom end refinements and has an upgraded stage 5 blower. In modified form it's propelled heavier cars into the 9's- certainly fast enough potential for me. As for the investment, a 3800SC swap ( including a new trans) can be done for $2,500 -$4,000 on average depending on the engine year, mileage and condition. The LS2 engine is hard to find and I estimate would cost about twice what a 3800SC would cost but some would argue that it's twice the engine!
------------------ 87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds 2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress Engine Controls, PCM goodies, re-programming & odd electronics stuff " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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02:36 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
As for the investment, a 3800SC swap ( including a new trans) can be done for $2,500 -$4,000 on average depending on the engine year, mileage and condition.
When you say "new trans" do you actually mean a new transmission, a rebuilt, or just a used tranmission that comes with the used engine?
I'd love to see an itemized price list of a completed swap that falls within this price range. I'm not saying it can't be done, but people quote prices like the cost of the engine and ECM and a custom mount are the whole swap - and then wonder why they spent 3 times their budget on the swap by the time it's done.
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04:21 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
There are certainly some advanced V8 and even V-12 engines around but as time goes on I'd be willing to bet that the production numbers of these engines will dwindle. Sure Vetttes, Bentleys, Cadillacs, Lambos and trucks might still have them but can we state that the the popularity of the V8 will increase?. Sure doesn't look like it to me. I'll get some production numbers and we can go from there. The LS2 while advanced has it roots in the SBC design which can be argued is over 40 years old by the same logic as saying the 3800SC is a 30 yr old design.
GM, Ford, and Mopar have more V-8's in vehicles now than they did back in late 80's and early 90's. Some quick examples: Chevy Impala. Once the RWD chassis was discontinued you could only get a V-6 only recently was the V-8 available. Pontiac Grand Prix Since 1988 has always had V-6 as the largest engine, Now comes with a V-8. Cadillac use to have the Northstar in only the DTS/STS now you have a V-8 in a CTS, DTS, STS, and XLR and it should be noted that they are using the Northstar AND the LS2.
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: As you know the 3800 platform has undergone a large number of revisons and modifications over it's life. If it were 30 years old as you state that would put it's debut at 1977- I don't think this is quite correct The 3800SC series III has had several bottom end refinements and has an upgraded stage 5 blower. In modified form it's propelled heavier cars into the 9's- certainly fast enough potential for me. As for the investment, a 3800SC swap ( including a new trans) can be done for $2,500 -$4,000 on average depending on the engine year, mileage and condition. The LS2 engine is hard to find and I estimate would cost about twice what a 3800SC would cost but some would argue that it's twice the engine!
Oops sorry it is a 1975 design. The 3.8L was first offered in 1975. so it's 32 years. Yes the V-8's are older but you seem to think that they didn't refine the V-8's over the years. (hence your use of the "dinosaur" description.)
Again swap prices are not relevant unless compared using equal factors. To have a new crate 3800SC installed by West Coast Fiero will cost $12,000. My V-8 swap with a new ZZ4 was less than $10,000 installed. A 3800SC with a used engine installed by the owner will cost far less than the installed price with a new engine. Archie did a V-8 swap for under $4000 (do a search there is an entire thread on it) using used parts. You spent $5000 on your 3.4L turbo swap, I spent $1700 on mine and it was only 20hp less than your turbo engine in terms of power. If I wanted to I could have spent $400 more and hooked up a standard nitrous system on it and had more power and still spent half of what you spent. So swap prices will vary greatly depending on who is doing the install and the status of the engine (used, rebuilt, brand new)
I am sure a used LS2 will cost twice what a used 3800SC would cost only because availability is better with the 3800SC's being used in more platforms. But brand new from GM there is only a $700 difference. For $700 more you get 140 more horsepower and the swap will be the same weight. How much do you think it will cost to get the 3800SC to 400hp? Bet it is more than $700. True the 3800SC can get 400+ hp when built correctly but the cost of the swap is now increased by that amount. If you are looking for max performance, Why would you want to install a used engine? Having the 3800Sc rebuilt or buying new will add to the swap price, hence cost is no longer a factor as it all depends on the individual persons preference and abilities.
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05:28 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15478 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
When you say "new trans" do you actually mean a new transmission, a rebuilt, or just a used tranmission that comes with the used engine?
I'd love to see an itemized price list of a completed swap that falls within this price range. I'm not saying it can't be done, but people quote prices like the cost of the engine and ECM and a custom mount are the whole swap - and then wonder why they spent 3 times their budget on the swap by the time it's done.
When it comes to swaps one guy does it for this and the other guy does it for that. I paid $2400 for a 2006 3800SC series III engine with 4T65eHD trans. The engine and transmisson had 60 miles on it-virtually new condition. Add the mounts, axels, PCM , wiring, fuel pump, exhaust and miscellaneous parts and you'll add another $1000 -$1500. The swap should come in below $5000 but thats with a 60 mile engine. If you buy an engine for less then you can do this swap
------------------ 87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds 2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress Engine Controls, PCM goodies, re-programming & odd electronics stuff " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Wow...looks like my simple question started a fire.lol.
LOL did you just crawl out from under a rock ? This always happens with "swap" threads. ALWAYS ! I tried to stay out of it but i couldn't help responding to your post. Ok im going back to "lurk mode" Later.
------------------ REMEMBER KIDS 4.9 ARE NOT SBC's
LOL...my question wasn't even about a swap option...I was just asking about the weight of an engine.
I guess there's no "perfect" engine choice. It's all a matter of adding your goals+ time you have + the budget you have and just coming up with the optimal swap for your needs.
As for me...I'm going for a simple 3.4 pushrod swap for now...as my main goal is just getting the car on the road.
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09:08 PM
May 15th, 2007
Will Member
Posts: 14250 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I don't come up with really good ideas very often but this is one of them.
If there are so many people here that want real weights, this might work.
Someone here or a group of people can all get together and donate a set of good digital 4 wheels scales to your favorite Archie guy.
No fish scales here, only the good stuff.
Then every car that come in for a swap of any kind gets weighed the day it arrives here & weighed the day it leaves here. I'll start a thread that gives real weights & details of what was added & removed from the car with before & after pics.
In addition, many people from the NIFE club have various swaps & NIFE usually has events at my place 2 or 3 times a year. So we can gather data on all those cars. This could make one heck of a nice data base in just a short time. I might even be able to take the scales with me when I go to shows to get date from there too.
I'd donate the time to take all these weights & document them with pics, specs & weights.
My guess is that if I had started doing this a year ago I'd have at least 60 cars in the database already.
Now some people keep claiming that the SBC is an outdated heavy old dinosaur, here's their chance to put up or shut up.
Archie
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08:19 PM
Doc John Member
Posts: 749 From: Fayetteville, Arkansas Registered: Feb 2007
It's not a simple question. It's a question asked by a troll for the purpose of starting said fire.
So now I'm a troll?Thanks. All I did was give another option that wasn't listed in the original list. How the hell does that make me a troll? If that makes me a troll...then damn near everyone on this board must be one.
Wow.I try to be helpful...and someone has to be an ass. I'll be sure not to make that mistake again.
Will...what did I do/say to rub you the wrong way?
[This message has been edited by dcfox (edited 05-15-2007).]
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09:42 PM
May 16th, 2007
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
I don't come up with really good ideas very often but this is one of them.
If there are so many people here that want real weights, this might work.
Someone here or a group of people can all get together and donate a set of good digital 4 wheels scales to your favorite Archie guy.
No fish scales here, only the good stuff.
Then every car that come in for a swap of any kind gets weighed the day it arrives here & weighed the day it leaves here. I'll start a thread that gives real weights & details of what was added & removed from the car with before & after pics.
In addition, many people from the NIFE club have various swaps & NIFE usually has events at my place 2 or 3 times a year. So we can gather data on all those cars. This could make one heck of a nice data base in just a short time. I might even be able to take the scales with me when I go to shows to get date from there too.
I'd donate the time to take all these weights & document them with pics, specs & weights.
My guess is that if I had started doing this a year ago I'd have at least 60 cars in the database already.
Now some people keep claiming that the SBC is an outdated heavy old dinosaur, here's their chance to put up or shut up.
Archie
I can't help you with a donation (just don't have that kind of money). But you can buy a set from Summit Racing for about 1000. Just an FYI. You could balance your customers cars as well as give them all the power they could ever need. In my opinion this would make you the true go-to guy when it comes to engine swaps just for the all around performance and balance it would give all of your cars. Just an idea. You rock Archie!
So now I'm a troll?Thanks. All I did was give another option that wasn't listed in the original list. How the hell does that make me a troll? If that makes me a troll...then damn near everyone on this board must be one.
Wow.I try to be helpful...and someone has to be an ass. I'll be sure not to make that mistake again.
Will...what did I do/say to rub you the wrong way?
I think that he was referring to Dennis
[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 05-16-2007).]
Well the reply quoted my post directly. My post was asking about the weight comparison of the 3800SC and LS2.
If you are correct that it wasn't directed towards me...then I apologize to Will for lashing out at him. If not...and it was directed at me...then I stand by my statement that his comment was uncalled for and rude.
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09:40 PM
Sep 18th, 2007
fierodeletre Member
Posts: 834 From: Behind Animal's Drum Set. Registered: Oct 2006
kinda sucked the fun out of the room eh? Hey, no one has yet answered how much the ecotec swap weighs. I've read that the block weighs 65 pounds, but have no idea as to whether this is true. Anyone have any info? I've also been told that the ecotec is capable of putting out 300hp without beefing up the lower end. If that;s true, putting mild turbo setup on this engine could make for an extremely quick, well-balanced car...hmm
------------------ If you can't be good, be good at it.
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10:58 PM
Sep 19th, 2007
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15478 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
The Ecotech was designed as a high efficiency low emissons engine. Ecotech = Economy, Ecology and Technology. It is lightweight but no one that I spoke to knows for sure. On the forums that discuss the engines merits and disadvantages, there are many points on the pros and con's of this engine choice that you can check out. One big plus is that you can make reasonable horsepower and get very good gas mileage numbers. I'd venture to say that 45 mpg in Fiero is achieveable.
------------------ 87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds 2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress Engine Controls, PCM goodies, re-programming & odd electronics stuff " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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09:49 AM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
kinda sucked the fun out of the room eh? Hey, no one has yet answered how much the ecotec swap weighs. I've read that the block weighs 65 pounds, but have no idea as to whether this is true. Anyone have any info? I've also been told that the ecotec is capable of putting out 300hp without beefing up the lower end. If that;s true, putting mild turbo setup on this engine could make for an extremely quick, well-balanced car...hmm
That's an awesome link and a perfect example of why I think we often under estimate stock equipment durability. If the Ecotec was comprised of a cast iron block that in itself would have eliminated several of the modifications that were made as horsepower increased or at least delayed their onset. For us the big mystery is piston strength and it appears now it may need to be directed toward rod strength, who knows how much more the stock pistons could have taken before failure. Even more interesting is that the rods failed from compression and not stretch. I wonder how the Ecotec rods compare in thickness to the V6 rods. If we can use it's stock failure point as a guide then one expect to be able to safely boost their stock engine to the tune of 100 hp per litre. Who knows how much of the rod failure was due to the previous flogging before the last stand. Normal street driving abuse probably barely reaches the limits of their dyno testing, usually being limited to short bursts.
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07:01 PM
wftb Member
Posts: 3692 From: kincardine,ontario,canada Registered: Jun 2005
the main reason i decided on the ecotec was not for future upgrades but because i just like DOHC 4 valve all aluminum 4 bangers in sports cars .and since it has around 145 hp (check out all the different ratings for every car its in ) i figured it would be faster than my old 2.8 ,especially with the weight savings .but i dont have a scale and i am only guessing at about 150 lbs less .it isnt just the difference between the two motors , its the lighter exhaust ,less bracketry ,single belt system and all the fiero stuff you dont need (trunk fan ,crossover pipe etc .) even the cavalier instrument cluster saves about 10 lbs over the fiero cluster .the guages are just printed cicuits with pointers on them .i keep meaning to go to the dump and get it weighed , maybe tomorrow . the weak point of the 2.2 is the rods .they are made out of powdered metal .when the drag program first started , they fed the 2.2 nitrous on a dyno until it blew .at around 278 HP ,ALL THE RODS BROKE ! not just one of them .however people have got 350 HP out of a stock bottom end using a turbo because it is easier on the rods than nitrous . i am running a big 16g turbo from turbochargers .com ,34lb injectors ,snow water meth injection , stock computer and ignition and 8 lbs of boost .14.1 @98.6 mph 1/4 .189 WHP (on my gtech ) that was my best of 5 runs none of them slower than 14.8 sec. everday driving i average 32 mpg (us gallon ) .on my rare trips down the 401 ,i get over 40 mpg .i check mileage all the time because my fuel guage still does not work. some day i would like to get a 2.0 as they have forged rods and a steel crank .those two items for a 2.2 will set you back over 3000 dollars.
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09:09 PM
PFF
System Bot
Oct 10th, 2007
fierodeletre Member
Posts: 834 From: Behind Animal's Drum Set. Registered: Oct 2006
I've done some research and have discovered the weights of various engines used for Fiero engine swaps. These are compiled below. Some are surprising like the LT1 at 620 lbs manual and 562 automatic but here is the list for reference.
Engine Chev LT1 620 lbs manual (due to flywheel) 562 lbs automatic Chev LS1 smallblock 497lbs manual 458lbs automatic 3.4L DOHC 492.5 lbs Cadillac 4.5/4.9L 371lbs (very light for a nearly 5 L V8) Cadillac Northstar 468 lbs Corvette L57 505 lbs Std. SBC crate engine 575 lbs 3800SC series II 445 lbs. 2.8/3.4 L weighs about 348
Originally posted by Oreif: Aside from the fact that the "efficent, lightweight, modern, economical V6 engine " you are presently swapping in your car is a 30 year old designed cast iron engine, you now state the V-8 is a "very advanced state of the art V-8", What about the V-8 being "destined for obscurity"????
Isn't the 3800 V6 much much older than that? Like almost 50 years old?
I seem to recall that it was originally designed by Buick many many years ago, like in the late 50s and used in the early 60s as the "odd-fire" version. And then they sold the molds to Kaiser, who then merged / became part of AMC, and then General Motors bought it back, revised it and created the "even-fire" version. Aluminum versions were made for Indy back in the day, and Rover made their own versions of the motor from the original molds. And it just kept being revised over and over until the present Series-III version today.
The Ecotech was designed as a high efficiency low emissons engine. Ecotech = Economy, Ecology and Technology. It is lightweight but no one that I spoke to knows for sure. On the forums that discuss the engines merits and disadvantages, there are many points on the pros and con's of this engine choice that you can check out. One big plus is that you can make reasonable horsepower and get very good gas mileage numbers. I'd venture to say that 45 mpg in Fiero is achieveable.
Yeah, I have one in my Solstice and I have to say I really like the motor.
STOCK, the motor propells the Solstice into the high/mid 15s. But with minimal modifications, the motor REALL wakes up.
I'm breaking into the 14s with nothing more than a ceramic coated shorty exhaust header, a larger CFM catalytic converter (525cfm up from 350cfm), and a cold air intake. It's amazing how the motor has really woken up to small mods like that.
One thing I REALLY REALLY like about the motor (especially in it's longitudinal form) is how "clean" everything is. Normally you'd expect there to be wires EVERYWHERE, but there's like 1 or 2 main harnesses. There's NO EGR system... the motor is so efficient, that it doesn't need an EGR. There are VERY few vacuum lines. Pulling from memory, I don't think I can even recall seeing 1 anywhere? The ignition system is very advanced, and clean. It uses coil on plug ignition (I believe there are TWO compact coils per plug to prevent total failure of the ignition system). There's nothing more than a simple wire that feeds up the front of the motor into the spark-plug galley, and then the small COPs plug right on top of the plugs. No mess, very clean.
The water pump IS external (unlike the Quad-4 / TwinCam), and is located in the rear. It uses stainless steel pipes everywhere with the exception of the hoses that go from the motor to the radiator.
I'm not overly thrilled about the Drive By Wire setup, but I suppose that's where everything is going now.
I ALSO like the cartridge oil filters. It plugs in RIGHT on top. No mess... the cap unscrews using a 1-1/4" socket and you simply drop-in a new oil filter cartridge. This makes filter changes extremely easy. It still uses a timing CHAIN (I HATE, repeate HATE timing belts) for durability. Plus it has VVT (very clean install), and numerous other advantages including forged rods, a nodular crank, direct injection, and cooling jets which spray oil directly to the underside of the pistons through oil jets. This helps cool the pistons.
It really is a great motor. The only negative thing I have to say about it is that it's a slightly rough running motor. Not rough as in problematic, but being that this is probably (2006) the first year of the motor, it just hasn't been refined yet. So it's a bit noisey and the motor is a bit clackety sounding.
I hear the new 08 Solstices though (NA ones) are much smoother sounding.
Yeah, I have one in my Solstice and I have to say I really like the motor. ... I ALSO like the cartridge oil filters. It plugs in RIGHT on top. No mess... the cap unscrews using a 1-1/4" socket and you simply drop-in a new oil filter cartridge. This makes filter changes extremely easy. It still uses a timing CHAIN (I HATE, repeate HATE timing belts) for durability. Plus it has VVT (very clean install), and numerous other advantages including forged rods, a nodular crank, direct injection, and cooling jets which spray oil directly to the underside of the pistons through oil jets. This helps cool the pistons.
It really is a great motor. The only negative thing I have to say about it is that it's a slightly rough running motor. Not rough as in problematic, but being that this is probably (2006) the first year of the motor, it just hasn't been refined yet. So it's a bit noisey and the motor is a bit clackety sounding.
I hear the new 08 Solstices though (NA ones) are much smoother sounding.
Is yours a 2.4, or the GXP Turbo 2.0? I was thinking only the turbo got Direct Injection. Do they all have it? I've been thinking a 2.4 170HP Ecotec would be a great engine for an economy Fiero, and it's got room to build up, as well. Probably be a screamer on the AutoX, too.
The only real drawback to the engine is the exhaust note. God, it's awful. But with only 4 pots moving air, I don't know if it can be changed much.
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09:21 AM
wftb Member
Posts: 3692 From: kincardine,ontario,canada Registered: Jun 2005
they sound really nice with a turbo . the V V T valvetrain must cause the roughness .my fiero with the 2.2 is very smooth .my honda element has V V T and it sounds a little rough in the higher RPM range .
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02:50 PM
KaijuSenso Member
Posts: 911 From: Westland, MI Registered: Jan 2007
Is yours a 2.4, or the GXP Turbo 2.0? I was thinking only the turbo got Direct Injection. Do they all have it? I've been thinking a 2.4 170HP Ecotec would be a great engine for an economy Fiero, and it's got room to build up, as well. Probably be a screamer on the AutoX, too.
The only real drawback to the engine is the exhaust note. God, it's awful. But with only 4 pots moving air, I don't know if it can be changed much.
Yeah, mine is a 2.4. I'm just pulling from memory here, but I believe the 2.4 w/VVT was the first year (2006) of the new "breed" of EcoTecs which include direct injection. The 2.2 is still the older style, I THINK. Yeah, that's my thought too. When I originally bought my Solstice, I was really looking for an economically friendly car to get me back and forth to work. I saw the Solstice and I just had to have it. If they only offered it in a V6, I probably wouldn't have gotten it. I guess it seems a bit hypocritical to blow $1,000 bucks on performancs parts when you originally BOUGHT the car for fuel efficiency... but... I dunno, what can I say? hahah...
But yeah, I saw a complete motor, ECM, and harness sell on eBay for $800 bucks with only 22k miles (the guy went with a Mallet swap). I can only imagine how awesome that would be in like an 88 Fiero 4 cyl coupe with the 5-Speed getrag.
The motor REALLY does wake up when you help it breath better... much more so than any motor I've ever had before.
But you're right... especially with my cold air intake, the engine absolutely sounds like ass. But then again, pretty much all 4 cyls do except a Porsche 944. It really has to do with muffling the sound better. I good insulated muffler with a thick, filled-walled tail-pipe (like on a 944) would solve the problem... that, or a resonator installed inline to the exhaust.
When it's stock though, it's ok. But... when you open it up like I have... it's horrible.
The problem is with sound resonances, not really with the "tone". If you accelerate normal, and then begin accelerating, however it happens to work, the sound pulses start at the intake and work their way through the exhaust and it creates that "fart-tip Honda Civic" sound. But, if you drop the hammer at 6 grand from a dead stop and nail the gas clear through, it actually sounds pretty nasty (as in mean as hell). It screams like a freak, not a Honda sound... but clearly not the sound of a "V" 6 or 8 motor.
It's not really a very "flashy" motor either. it doesn't have any ignition cover like the Quad-4 or Ecotec did. Just a DOHC cam cover in stamped aluminum. It's really quite clean.
my saturn Ion with the 2.2 ecotec idles a little rough sometimes. the car will shake slightly
I've noticed that too with mine, and I honestly think it actually has to do with the drive by wire. I haven't really bothered to look, but I would imagine that since it's drive by wire, there's really no need for a throttle position sensor since the computer can just use the throttle plate itself to adjust the idle air intake.
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: On the forums that discuss the engines merits and disadvantages, there are many points on the pros and con's of this engine choice that you can check out. One big plus is that you can make reasonable horsepower and get very good gas mileage numbers. I'd venture to say that 45 mpg in Fiero is achieveable.
Though I wouldn't say it's got "reasonable power", I've got an 88 duke 5 speed car that beats that mileage number for highway consistently. 46.75 mpg on several trips. I'll admit it was all highway and I got passed a bunch.
------------------ Ron
Never, never do anything or wear things that you don't want to have to explain to Paramedics, it can get very embarrassing. They talk!
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07:04 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32153 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
This is THE most complete weight list you will ever see. There are multiple sources listed for all of the weights. Almost every engine ever put into a fiero is already there along with tranny info also.
Was just looking through this thread and found that that link is exactly what I'm looking for ... except it's now a dead link. Anyone have the info that was on that page?
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06:29 PM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
Was just looking through this thread and found that that link is exactly what I'm looking for ... except it's now a dead link. Anyone have the info that was on that page?
I have that link somewhere around here also. I will find it again and re-post it. But I have to go to work right now so it will have to be later. Later
I have that link somewhere around here also. I will find it again and re-post it. But I have to go to work right now so it will have to be later. Later
