I'm sure this has been posted somewhere in here before...
As far as aerodynamics are concerned, which would present the best gain / least loss, a spoiler or a wing? I have heard (and experienced) that the stock wing doesn't do much until you are at illegal speeds and that spoilers have too much down force at high speed. Which one would be better for down force at 50 to 80 MPH? (highway speeds)
and at speeds above 80 MPH?
Does anyone have any experience driving fiero's (or other's) with one or the other?
As far as ascetics, which is better?

I want to add one or the other but I want it to look like it was supposed to be there and be functional. The stock wing looks good, but doesn't seem to be effective at highway speeds. I drove an 88 2M6 formula with one, and at speeds way over 85 mph it was just starting to do its job.

quote Originally posted by IFLYR22: I want to add one or the other but I want it to look like it was supposed to be there and be functional. The stock wing looks good, but doesn't seem to be effective at highway speeds. I drove an 88 2M6 formula with one, and at speeds way over 85 mph it was just starting to do its job.

That's true of most spoilers, even the screen door sized bi-plane wing spoilers you see on the ricers.

Never did figure out how they are supposed to help on Front-Wheel-Drive cars...


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3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003/2004 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-22-2007).]

See this discussion:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/083900.html

I think the past discussion say spoiler over wing.

At one time I aspired to become an aerodynamisist. I never did but I have digested anything I've read since the 60's on the subject.
The wings on street cars really don't funcion as wings because they are barely in the air stream. You can't develope a low pressure area beneath the wing when it is inches above the deck.
Fiero wings have two long recessed areas on the underside runnning perpendicular to the airflow for structural strength that you only see on close inspection. I would expect them to disturb any airflow between the deck and the wing. Thus the wing really functions more as a spoiler with the drag it induces creating a higher presure ahead of it on deck lid.
Some spoilers and wings have been shown to improve gas mileage by reattatching the airflow behind the rear window and reducing turbulance behind the car that causes drag.
The funcion of any of these aero devices is not to improve traction but to reduce the chance of deadly high speed oversteer and thus they are equally valid with a front driver.
As far as asthetics goes, on a new Mustang, I think only a spoiler looks right. I have yet to see a Fiero with a spoiler, but either look half dressed without something.

IFLYR22 -

Along with "what's the best swap", this has to be one of the most-often-recurring topics on the forum.

Since I'm highly opinionated on the subject, let me give you the short version.

At around-town speeds, not much makes any difference - aerodynamic forces increase as the square of the speed.

Raising the wing can improve flow over the deck, probably aiding engine cooling and maybe actually producing some downforce.

Quarter-window scoops, and especially hood vents, can improve cooling - with all three of the mods mentioned, I run 10-15 degrees cooler than I did before.

I see that you live in Tucson too - if you'd like to see what I've done, I'd be happy to get together. If not, do a search for 'fojo' in Technical - I've posted some pictures of my mods, including a (crude) shot of my last tuft test showing flow down over the edge of the deck instead of reverse flow.

You know.....I saw a FWD import car one day w/the aluminum wing mounted on the rear deck, and the darn wing was angled w/leading edge high. I got a good laugh .......then thought hey that may be the correct way to install a wing on a FWD car! (I'm being semi-serious).

quote Originally posted by fffttt1: You know.....I saw a FWD import car one day w/the aluminum wing mounted on the rear deck, and the darn wing was angled w/leading edge high. I got a good laugh .......then thought hey that may be the correct way to install a wing on a FWD car! (I'm being semi-serious).

No it's not. Fwd need a low wing or spoiler when taking high speed corners to keep the rear end from spinning out too much. A lot of Fwd rally cars have lip spoilers or low wings because thats all they need to keep the rear end down. FWD need front lip spoilers (a good body kit will accomplish this) or a spoiler over the hood (Take a look at a Mitsubishi FTO, you'll see what I'm talking about) Honestly, if the guy had the leading edge facing up...he probably installed it wrong...hahaha. Ricers are funny.

The only performace gain is in the eye of the beholder ..the wings are useless for performance unless you drive over 120mph often,, there is some evidence that the wing will give a small increase in mpg .. I have seen on this forum reports of 2 or 3 mpg this seems unlikely it is possibloe under perfect conditions that 1 mpg could be had on the highway i am a cheap skinflint looking for easy increase in mpg since i ran the motorcycle into the wall and spent 1 month laying perfectly still to save my leg I could care less about speed(wimp) the only logical reason for wing is improve milage,, there is no performance gain only 50 horse power gain in looks but so many cars now have wings the effect is lost.. i like the look on the notch and the GT ,, the fiero stock wing ??? a 10 very few cars look as good as a stock fiero with the wing.. just my peso worth

This is the flow whether you have a wing or a spoiler. The wing does in fact act like a spoiler in its stock location, and the spoiler does in fact do virtually nothing for you at lower speeds, other than add weight. Absolutely true that it helps in drag but at standard highway speeds very little.

If you want the wing to work as a downforce instrument, it has to be raised into the air stream. That is at least 10" up from the stock location. And it has to be angled down a bit.

This is the air flow under my Sundance spoiler. It parallels the air flow under the Fiero wing



Hope this helps.

Arn

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: The only performace gain is in the eye of the beholder ..the wings are useless for performance unless you drive over 120mph

Even then they sometimes have disadvantages. The optional rear wing available on the exotic Lamborghini Countach supercar was well known among car enthusiasts at the time for actually REDUCING the car's top speed by several miles per hour

On F1 cars, they adjust drag vs. downforce - if you pick up hp, you can adjust wing to generate more downforce to maintain same top speed but improve lap times due to faster cornering.

Maybe that's also true for the Countach - with same power, wing would decrease top speed due to increased drag, but might raise speed thru a given corner because of downforce.

quote Originally posted by fojo: On F1 cars, they adjust drag vs. downforce - if you pick up hp, you can adjust wing to generate more downforce to maintain same top speed but improve lap times due to faster cornering. Maybe that's also true for the Countach - with same power, wing would decrease top speed due to increased drag, but might raise speed thru a given corner because of downforce.

It all really depends on your driving style. A drag racer doesn't really need a spoiler because by the time he/she gets to a speed that the spoiler will begin to work, they are already slowing down because the quarter mile is over. A car on a track absolutely needs a spoiler to take turns at any speeds above 70. It does wonders to keep the back-end down. Case in point, I don't know if any of you watch Top Gear, but their test driver took the Koenigsegg CCX around the track with out a spoiler and the car spun out around a corner at 95. With a spoiler, their driver pushed it around the same corner at 110+. Now, let us consider daily driving. Nope, no car needs a spoiler for anything we do. All the corners and all the turns we take in our cars rely solely on the suspension, the grip of the tires, and the roll of the chassis. Eliminate these faults and you have a real road going machine for daily driving fun. The minute you take your car to the track however, you'll be in a little more trouble. I personally prefer the wing on the Fastback GT. I think its fashionable without being silly. I agree with some of the other members, however, that it would need to be raised into the airflow to be of more use. But for daily driving it really doesn't do too much and its there for about 80% aesthetics.

I don't think I'd be adding downforce on a Fiero at the back without doing something with the front. The front probably needs it more.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I don't think I'd be adding downforce on a Fiero at the back without doing something with the front. The front probably needs it more. Arn

If you want to start anywhere start with the front. You will have better luck with either a hood vent or chin spoiler. Especially on the coupe bodies. Fieros already have 60% of the weight in the back. If the front sticks better you will be able to corner better. If you consistantly drive over 100MPH then you should start worring about a spoiler/wing. Fieros were designed in a wind tunnel. This being said Pontiac did a good job with the wing. At low speeds it acts as a wing providing lift to the rear of the car. At higher speeds it acts as a spoiler providing downforce to help keep the rear on the ground. At highway speeds the it functions as both at once and actually reduces drag to increase mileage. Not only does it fit the car cosmetically but it fits the car aerodynamically. I will provide the right amount of downforce needed to about 160mph. Modifying it (risers, ect) or changing to a different one will only change handeling. It is a well designed unit and there really is no need for a change. Hope this helps.

Spoiler - Creates downforce
Wing - Creates lift
Both add weight and create drag. They must be set up for the purpose they are being used for. The fiero one WAS setup for the purpose it is being used for in most cases. Unless you race at very high speed there is no reason for a change.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-25-2007).]