i knew this was going to blow up

Nice knowing you GT Quick, even if it was for a brief time. Don't let the door hit you on the behind on your way out.
Remember to treat people as you would have them treat you. You are being treated as you are because you do not seem to be apologetic for the insults you made to the forum membership for answering your questions.
It seems you have formed an opinion about Archie's kit and are just looking for others to help you bash it. That is what a troll does. It wouldn't surprise me if you end up being banned before you actually quit. Insulting a "respected" forum member (like Archie) will not gain you any brownie points either. You seem to be a newbie to using forums so you should be careful what you say when you first join one, unless you like being kicked off them.
Most kits are made for a universal fit, because of all the different components that could be used with them, therefore they will require some adjustments to make them work right. If you can't live with this fact then don't buy a kit. You sound like you could make your own anyway, so maybe you would be better off doing that or just ordering the parts from the kit that you can use or cannot fabricate yourself.
If you don't like the way you are being treated here, leave, but remember you brought this treatment on yourself because of your insulting replies to those that tried to help you with this vendor and his products. You should have known that not everyone would agree with you or have the same experience you had. What you might consider a great inconvenience might have been a nit to someone else. It seems that you need to learn a little bit more about tact when it comes to interacting with new people. There is a difference betwen a discussion and an argument. I suggest you learn what it is.

Anyone who has been on this forum for any given amount of time has either seen a thread like this or been involved in one. It is an open forum with a lot of opinionated people. There wll always be dissagreements especially when it comes to speaking about other members on this forum. There really is nothing you can do about it. All you can really do is move on. What do you think guys, is it time to let it go? And the whole troll thing is just rediculous. Yes there have been real trolls out there but they never last long. There have also been lots of good poeple accused of being one because people are quick to get defensive over certain subjects. This is where the ability to let that which does not truely matter, slide and move on to something that does. Dont waist your time in these threads and if you have a problem with someones product, take it up with them. I know you were just asking for opinions but you picked a very touchy subject and this is bound to happen.

Welcome to the forum!! You have just witnessed to down side to a forum of this size. Good thing is you have learned from this experiance and this only leaves you open for discover to great points of this forum. Welcome aboard, dont let this taint your opinion of the forum and dont waist your time with these types of discussions. You will never leave a thread like this happier then you were before you started it. Even if you do manage to get your point accross.

Its over... XXX THREAD CLOSED XXX

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 10-07-2007).]

Where did Archie go? Don't care to answer any questions yourself?

If you look back to the first page of this thread, he gave the guy the opportunity to give him some particulars on his problems so that he could look into them.

[This message has been edited by William Federle (edited 10-07-2007).]

quote Originally posted by William Federle: If you look back to the first page of this thread, he gave the guy the opportunity to give him some particulars on his problems so that he could look into them.

No he did not !! Archie said " let me look up your file" What is he a cop ? What's a file ? I mean I bought a kit big whoop.

FYI I started another thread for him to respond in and I WILL bump that thread until Archie responds.

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: FYI I started another thread for him to respond in and I WILL bump that thread until Archie responds.

GT - I'm sure you are a great guy, and I hope you stay around long enough to be a contributing member, but taking on Archie in open forum is the quickest way to get automatically banned. Just a piece of unsolicited advice.

Well it seems that the guy was asking if the kit has been updated sinice he bought one to see if thing had been changed for the better but instead he gets bashed by all then every one expects him to just take it and not reply after they draw first blood

Thanks for the advice jscott but are you telling me that just because I question this guy people won't like me ? That doesn't seem fair. And what do you mean by banned like kicked off ?? I read the rules when I joined and it talked about no foul language, etc etc but I can get kicked off for just asking this guy questions ??? I am having a hard time understanding this forum. I started the other thread to give Archie a way to type his responses on his own time. I would hate to bother him with another phone call when this is a perfect avenue for addressing these issues all the while helping others with the same issues. At least that's the way I see it.

Let’s see….so far…..

No Name
No Idea what he actually bought from me
No Idea When he bought it. So hard to say what changes have been made since purchase
No idea if the trans he was using had been beefed up
No details about the engine that was used
No Idea what he used for donor car the condition of it’s suspension
No details on any of the mods he did to 90% of the kit
Not a picture anywhere of all these changes you “Had” to make
No desire for input from the V-8 kit designer

Maybe it’s time for you to Man-Up & fill in some of the blanks.

I think that you’re not telling us who you are because we’d find out that you’ve been here under another screen name in the past.

If you have the conviction that you are right & that your comments are correct & valid, then why not tell us who you are?

If you had actually read the written instructions or watched the video instructions then you’d know that I recommend the stock Fiero rad fan & shroud. You decided to use another setup & then complain about it.

The instructions also describe how to rotate the VSS sensor on the automatic to get more room for the exhaust pipes but you didn’t follow the instructions.

You claim you twisted off a “Green” bolt when torqueing it. With all your car building experience wouldn’t it be better if you could describe this bolt by the Grade 2, 5 or 8 that’s marked on the end of it. The bolt’s color is not a way to describe wether it’s suitable for the job it’s intended for.

The instructions spend a lot of time describing each & every part of the kit & explaining why the kit is designed the way it is. You complain about the Alternator bracket without even understanding the reason it’s done the way it is. In case you haven’t noticed on a SBC, the Valve covers flanges extend out past the ends of the cylinder heads, thus the Alt. mount can’t be bolted up flush to the end of the cylinder head. The swing of the Alternator mount is designed so you can mount an A/C compressor below the mount & so that the alternator doesn’t hit the passenger compartment bulkhead before you get the belt tight. Yes, on a one off swap a guy can make an alternator bracket that’s a perfect fit for his application.

However, in the real world, the “Fly Cut” surface on the front of the Cylinder head is not always in the same place relative to the engine block. OEM heads & aftermarket heads from different manufacturers can have this front face of the head in many different locations. After all it’s just a “Fly-Cut”. Many aftermarket Cylinder heads also have NPT threaded pipe plugs in the ends of the heads that would interfere with a flat mount alternator bracket. Then there’s the Fiero alternators, The Fiero used several different alternators with several different distances between the center line of the alt. pulley & the mounting flanges on the Alternator case. Yes it uses flat washers to get the pulley in alignment with the rest of the pulleys & to not interfere with the edges of the valve cover. What would you rather have? An alternator bracket that is easily adaptable to fit virtually every engine/alternator/head combination. Or would you rather have me asking you 27 questions about your engine/alternator/head combination when you’re ordering a kit & then have to order another alternator bracket when you decide to change your configuration?

I think I did a pretty good job 20 years ago designing an alternator bracket that, with a couple of minor changes, is the same one we use today. “Outdated”???? I don’t think so.

Every part of this kit was designed with the same planning going into it & the design has lasted the test of time. We build about 25 to 35 V-8 Swaps in house a year & sell about 120 kits a year so anything we can find to improve the methods or parts will save us & our customers time & money. So yeah there’s been a few tweeks thru the years to the kits but the general design & methods remain essentially the same.

“Outdated Design” I don’t think so. The “Normal” Gen 1 SBC engine block was designed in the late 50’s & remains essentially the same block today. The Fiero we work with today is the same Fiero I designed the kit for 20 years ago. How can it be “Outdated”?

The biggest problem I have with the kits is when people who consider themselves to be experienced builders, see a bunch of parts in a box & don’t think they need instructions to be able to put it together. Some experienced builders like jstricker, Darrelk & prostreet505 actually research the instructions so that they can understand the repercussions of changes they might make later. Other “experienced builders” see a bunch of parts & figure they can make changes on the fly without planning.

A prime example, You talk about designing the kit for an S-10 starter & you criticize me for not using one. On a SBC, the starter normally mounts on the right side of the engine. To fit into the Fiero the starter has to be moved to the left side of the engine. Have you actually taken a look at the S10 starter? Here’s one on EBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...ash=item300158915672


Notice that the starter drive gear has a “hood” or “Hat” & that the mounting surface is on the top of the starter on the same side of the starter as the solenoid. The “Hat” is pointed in such a direction that when you move the starter to the other side of the engine, you’ll have to rotate the starter over to be upside down. Thus the solenoid points down and interferes with the frame rail for the engine cradle. Also the mounting holes for the starter would be out in an area where a bracket to bolt it to would be a very complicated.

So much for planning ahead, I’ve done a bunch of it, you’ve done none of it with the changes you advocate.

Maybe you could point out where S10 starters are commonly used in these types of swaps.

Archie

You know a guy can only take so much from people before having to defend his position. Archie I will cherish your heartfelt response always.****Here we go with the sarcasm again**** So is there a way to maybe not insult your customers' intelligence when responding ?

Yes common sense says one would have to modify the starter to get it to fit for the FIero application. I was speaking more in reference to a SBC S10 swap but that's my fault for not making myself clear. And more hypothetically; not to negate the other issues with the kit so let's not revolve around my S10 starter comment. While your griniding stuff down might as well go on an cutoff the shroud to the starter gear on the S10 and save 100 bucks.

My name ? Why is that such a thing with you. I'm a private guy. Don't worry about it.

What I bought ? Master Build kit. Maybe I bought it from you, maybe I bought it from EBAY, maybe I bought it at a church garage sale. It doesn't matter, but for the record I did buy it from you directly.

When I bought it ? Why does that matter since nothing has changed with the kit so again stop trying to find my name. I bought the kit from you within the last 20 years so it's the same kit right ?

Tranny ? TH125 with beefed up internals. The auto swap physics and weight was mentioned earlier. Did you even read the thread ?

Engine ? Warmed over 350...mid 80's block...we had a lengthy discussion about this when I ordered. You interviewed me about all of it.
Donor car: 86 GT. Numerous suspension mods to include Eibach springs, Koni shocks, poly everything, professional 4 wheel alignment, added sway bar...why does this matter ? You want service records too ?

You are truly not interested in what mods I did but I have named them in this thread. Read it please PLEASE read the thread. I doubt you will read it and go "after 25 years I NEVER thought of that" and compliment me so I won't bother with more details other than I replaced many of your old parts with contemporary high quality ones ordered easily on my lunch break from any vendor.

Who am I ? You have mentioned this 3 times in two responses. Why ?

As far as the fan issue I was running 220- 230 in Texas heat. Something had to be done. The factory setup was not doing it for me so I modded it. Big deal. I read your instructions. I studied them. I wathced them on VHS for a month or more before even going out to the shop to start the swap. They were for a 5 speed. You could not even get me a VHS for a TH125 and you said to just apply the same to the auto swaps. Then you accuse me of not following the instructions ? That's an insult, and I want you to take it back. You know NOTHING about me or my skills. I know that goes both ways, but it's just a 350 in a Fiero. It's not rocket science here. Don't insult my intelligence again.

I don't have the "green" bolts anymore but you do and you know exactly what they are and/are were. Tool show quality fasteners at best but I guaran-damn-tee you I replaced them with grade 8's.

Thank you for your explanation of the alternator bracket. That makes sense. There's really no trick to the alternator bracket so I could really care less how it's "fly cut" or whatever. That's your business how you fab the part. But I'm telling you there are better ones on the market. You should sub out some of this kit and it would be alot better. I didn't use an A/C so it did not benefit me. It only annoyed me but I can understand that different applications are hard to predict.

I find it interesting that 2 of the peple you named that are "experienced builders" are the same names that bashed me in this thread for my questions. A little something extra in their paychecks maybe ? I don't know but I starteed another thread to avoid such things. You chose to reply here so here we are.

Arhcie I respected you until you started taking jabs at my intelligence. I'm not sure what your average Fiero clientel is like but you know nothing about me or what I used to do in the automotive industry. Apparantly your demeanor, under your own schedule and time frame on the computer, is equal to your demeaneor, on the phone, when most people say you are too busy. I'm sorry but you insulted me. Ths is not me. What I am typing is not my normal behavior but I have been pushed too much in my two days being here. From being called a liar, to a troll, to a troublemaker, to my own kit builder, I mean I've had it. What is it with you Archie that you can''t take some critisicm and advice from others ? And what is it with others that can't let some critisicm come forth to Archie that they must jump in like the man can't speak for himself ?

For the record I did the swap, as instructed, with no mods to it and drOve the car. Then Ipulled the cradle and redid everything on my own to fix the aforementioned problems. I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS IF YOU WOULD READ THE THREAD.

is this the intermission?
for the record i bought a kit from archie a long time ago and it worked great on the 383 i did on my old 87 notchie... yeah the alt bracket was a little scetchy but there are alot of different alt designs out there in this world. it's to be expected. it was the only issue i had... i used a custom alternator as well though. my fault.

Call Archie. Be a man.

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: Thank you for your explanation of the alternator bracket. That makes sense. There's really no trick to the alternator bracket so I could really care less how it's "fly cut" or whatever. That's your business how you fab the part. But I'm telling you there are better ones on the market. You should sub out some of this kit and it would be alot better. I didn't use an A/C so it did not benefit me. It only annoyed me but I can understand that different applications are hard to predict.

You should go back and read Archie's reply again. The end of the cylinder head is "fly cut." There are production tolerances between different engines, alternators, and cylinder heads that prevent making a single mount to fit them all. Maybe you didn't use AC, but many people do, and having 1 bracket that works for both means the kit is less expensive for everyone.

quote Originally posted by 85GTV84FUN: Call Archie. Be a man.

I've got $100 that says he won't call Archie for the same reason he won't give is name and time of purchase.......because he never bought a kit or build a V-8 Fiero. Archie keeps good records so all GT Quick has to do is fill in the blanks so they match and I will give him $100. You don’t even have to post the information here…just call Archie and let him confirm you bought a kit. I will then apologize for doubting you and send you the money.

quote Originally posted by DL10: I've got $100 that says he won't call Archie for the same reason he won't give is name and time of purchase.......because he never bought a kit or build a V-8 Fiero. Archie keeps good records so all GT Quick has to do is fill in the blanks so they match and I will give him $100. You don’t even have to post the information here…just call Archie and let him confirm you bought a kit. I will then apologize for doubting you and send you the money.

Amen to this. This guy is scared of something. Now he has started another thread on the same stuff. Just call him why do you have to be a tool on the forum about it.

------------------
Fiero Thomas
85 Fiero GT
86 Fiero GT
88 Formula T-Top C+C # 1239 of 1252, Build Digit 26,224 of 26,402
NIFE Member
Fiero News dot net

My 3900 swap thread was started two months ago and already this thread has more posts, and more than half as many hits as my swap thread does in two days. I'm jealous and sad that after all the hard work I've done nobody cares.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-07-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: My 3900 swap thread was started two months ago and already this thread has more posts, and more than half as many hits as my swap thread does in two days. I'm jealous and sad that after all the hard work I've done nobody cares.

I <3 you and your work towards the 6 speed swap. . .that thread is def in my favorites

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: My 3900 swap thread was started two months ago and already this thread has more posts, and more than half as many hits as my swap thread does in two days. I'm jealous and sad that after all the hard work I've done nobody cares.

What are you talking about!! Your work is awesome!!!!! I am watching.

I'm just kidding, I just wanted to divert attention away from this thread, because we all pretty much new from the start where it was headed and no good that I can think of comes from posting in it beyond recommending the matter be discussed diplomatically with Archie.

After his reply to me earlier today I do not feel like talking to him personally. If the guy can't control himself when he types I'd hate to expose myself to whatever speaking live to him will do at this point.

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: After his reply to me earlier today I do not feel like talking to him personally. If the guy can't control himself when he types I'd hate to expose myself to whatever speaking live to him will do at this point.

Well, you've stuck your neck out this far.

Maybe this will give everyone a laugh;

He's A Goner ~ > > A man and a woman were dating. She, being of a
religious nature, had >held back the worldly pleasure that he wanted from
her so badly. > > In fact, he had never even seen her naked.
> > One day, as they slowly drove down the freeway, she remarked
about his >slow-driving habits. "I can't stand it anymore," she told him.
"Let's play >a game. For every 5 miles per hour over the speed limit [60
MPH] you drive, >I'll remove one piece of clothing. > > He
enthusiastically agreed and sped up the car. > > * He reached the
65 MPH mark, so she took off her blouse. > > * At 70 off came the
pants. > > * At 75 it was her bra...and > > * At 80
her panties. > > Now seeing her naked for the first time...and
traveling faster than he >ever had before...he became very excited and
lost control of the car. He >veered off the road, went over an embankment
and hit a tree! > > His girlfriend was not hurt, but he was
trapped. She tried to pull him >free but alas he was stuck. "Go to the
road and get help," he said. > > "I don't have anything to cover
myself with!" she replied. The man >felt around, but could only reach one
of his shoes. > > "You'll have to put this between your legs to
cover it up," he told >her. > > So she did as he said and
went up to the road for help. Along came a >truck driver. Seeing a naked,
crying woman along the road, he pulled over >to hear her story. >
> "My boyfriend! My boyfriend!" she sobs, "He's stuck and I can't pull
>him out!" > > The truck driver looking down at the shoe
between her legs >replies,"Ma'am, if he's in that far, I'm afraid he's a
goner!" >

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: After his reply to me earlier today I do not feel like talking to him personally. If the guy can't control himself when he types I'd hate to expose myself to whatever speaking live to him will do at this point.

GT quick, you have a PM

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: And what do you mean by banned like kicked off ?? I read the rules when I joined and it talked about no foul language, etc etc but I can get kicked off for just asking this guy questions ???

GT - There is a long, (and I mean LONG) history of people joining this forum with no purpose other than start trouble with V8Archie. Usually under assumed names and fake identities. This one person in particular has made it his life's mission to cause trouble for Archie.

There are some, (probably including Archie) are not convinced this is not another attempt by this person, or someone known to this person. That is why he is interested to know if you are a real customer and your identity.

As for being banned, if you look over to the left, you will see a "rate this member" and yes people can rate you based on your usefulness to the forum. Too many negatives and yes you can be banned from this forum.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-07-2007).]

Edited part---->>>> I'll be blunt cause no one's said this fully.

Gt the fastest way to get kicked / banned from this forum is to make people dislike you. By taking on Archie is one of these ways to accomplish this task. The ratings system fair??? Not sure on that this is one of the ways it bans people that I disagree with. But within two days you've shown yourself to too many people to be trouble. Trouble to me... Not at all. Would I buy the kit you bought NO, why too many engines do more than the simple SBC installs. But watch out because out of the 100+ Archie customers on this forum taking on Archie and hiding any information can get you kicked in one day or less. The above mentioned person has been kicked within 5 posts before and once kicked after his first post. The only reason I think you haven't been kicked is that some of the customer/members have doubts on weather your are actually a dissatisfied customer or not.

My question is what is FLY CUT? and if FLY CUT means cut close to the line meaning each head is different then how come the brackets GM makes for one year model or several always fit.

[This message has been edited by DIY_Stu (edited 10-07-2007).]

heh, I would bet this is shawn or RFT guy lol.

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: I find it interesting that 2 of the peple you named that are "experienced builders" are the same names that bashed me in this thread for my questions. A little something extra in their paychecks maybe ? .

Dude, you have some serious issues!!!

1. I never bashed you in this thread, I may have been a bit harsh, But bash you I did not!!!!

2. I apoligized for being a bit harsh.

Then you have the nerve to talk about something extra in my paycheck. I wish I recieved a paycheck from Archie. Then I would'nt have to bust my @#% with my buisness. I could just go to work for 8 hours and then go home.

GT Quick I gave you a chance and then you took a jab at me. In my personal opinion you "Should Not" do another Fiero. You will only give the car a bad name. You will not recieve another reply from me.

BE GONE WITH YOUR TROLL SELF!!!!!!!!!!

I guess alot of these posts annoy me because I belong to many other car forums(should I name them since I am not a "regular" here?). I think archie does good work from the pics I have seen. But someone of you!! Good god, you guys need to step back and read from the begining what this guy is saying before you start tearing him down for having a negative opinion about your fiero god archie.

He doesnt have to call anybody. If he wants to post that the kit sucks, then that is his business. I dont see how this guy is being a "troll" some of you came at him very rude, what did you expect him to say?

Not to mention this guy: Formula88
must be on archies pay roll the way he posts about the guy

This thread is hilarious. God forbid anyone posts that they think Archie's kit could use improving. Its not like there's a dozen other active threads right now about V8's and/or chop tops that are filled with Archie praise. I very much doubt that his ego and image are in any danger here. New guys posts a poor impression of Archie's kit and everybody yells at him for having an opinion. Then you're all surprised when he gets defensive after you start calling him a troll and accusing him of malicious ulterior motives. Do you even read these threads, or is your troll-detector set so far into overdrive that you can't tell the difference between an opinion and an attack any more?

[This message has been edited by Fastback 86 (edited 10-08-2007).]

Who is this mystery troll everyone seems to know about? What is his deal?

------------------
If you can't be good, be good at it.

Since GT Quick thought it was necessary to start a second thread about the subject - which BTW is against forum rules - I'm closing this one. And I'll probably move the other to GFC since I haven't read anything so far that actually belongs in TD&Q.