Alright guys, for anybody still watching, I FINALLY have videos to share. If a picture is worth a thousand words, is a video worth a thousand pictures?
You'll notice all the cranking - I had a dead TPS sensor, and still have an intermittent MAP, and my IAC wasn't quite right. It took all those tries until I realized I should give it some gas, and boom, that did it. It starts fine now. Enthusiasm? Not at all...
This is still with the automatic trans chip, so it stalls coming up to a stop. The hard start is due to the ECM having to relearn the idle, it's since adjusted and starts at the flick of the key. And yes, it really is that loud... there's no exhaust tailpipes or tips yet - just 6" of pipe, a cat, and a Flowmaster 80 at the moment. It's loud!
Alright, as I celebrate one victory, I'm pulling the oil pan to investigate my oil pan and the wierd oil I've been draining out that doesn't look right... I may be in for bearing replacement. Rods I can do in the car, mains will mean pulling the motor, at which point I'll refresh everything just to be safe. Wish me luck on that...
[This message has been edited by Blue Shift (edited 03-13-2007).]
Friggin wicked dude. That engine has to be loud, at one point in the video you and your friend are talking and it sounds like you have voices from an old school nintendo game - so loud it clips out the audio
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09:06 AM
Back On Holiday Member
Posts: 6238 From: Downingtown, PA Registered: Jul 2001
Well, there's been another development in this story: My bearings are shot. I managed to catch it before it took out any of the hard parts and costly machining.
It ended up being moly/graphite assembly lube, and as I found out in an informal test, it just does NOT want to mix into the oil. What you see there is the stuff separating out. Also, the graphite flakes in the lube look suspiciously like metal dust under the light. It wasn't until a 3rd oil change (20 miles apiece, roughly) that I saw what clearly looked to be a metal fleck in the oil, so I decided to just pull the pan, and this is what I saw: http://img.photobucket.com/...esh/OilPanFlakes.jpg
Those shiny things are flakes of metal - bearing material to be exact. This is the #6 rod bearing, rod side, that I hydrolocked, so I figure it'd be the most likely to come apart: http://img.photobucket.com/...efresh/Bearing6R.jpg
It's all still there, but there's a bit of wear and a larger groove in it. In most of the other rod bearings, there were particles embedded in the bearings, and had pushed up enough metal to wear down to the copper layer around the embedded particle - not good. So I pulled the #2 main cap and this is what I saw: http://img.photobucket.com/...fresh/Bearing2MC.jpg
It doesn't look like any of the 6 rods lost enough material to account for the metal flakes in the pan, so it HAS to be a main - there are no other trimetal bearings in the motor (intermediate shaft has aluminum bearings in it, and the cams don't have bearing inserts). I haven't pulled the other mains yet, so I don't know what to expect yet. The whole cradle has to come out, and I have to disassemble the motor and start all over again with it to do the mains, and to find and eliminate any further crap that could contaminate the new bearings. Not going to be any fun at all. But on the up side of things, I can redo anything that I didn't get the first time around. Also on the up side of things, I once said "I just want to get one test drive out of it, that's all I need". I got 4, fair enough.
Oh, ouch! I'm really sorry to see what happened, man that must be really discouraging. You are doing such nice work and I hope that you will approach this philosophically.
Alright, well I have the cradle back out of the car. The cam carriers appear to be fine, which is good news, because as you may or may not know, none of the cam bearing surfaces are replaceable or repairable - if they're shot, you need replacement cam carriers.
Now for the not so good news. Here's a look at my mains, and the #6 rod bearing (because it's fairly typical of them all, and was unbolted when I took the pic):
Repeat after me: "!@#$%^&*!!!!!!!!" Looks like I'll need a crank kit - I'll have to have this one turned down ANOTHER undersize cuz I can feel those grooves with my finger, much less catch a nail in it, along with fresh bearings. I've also discovered that some of my seals are leaking already (I think I goofed installing several), so I think I'm going to go ahead and do a complete re-seal of the motor and just do it right. Maybe even head gaskets while at it, just to be safe. Whatever you guys do - I hope somebody is learning from all these mistakes, as I don't think I've failed to make a single one, yet. Note, that when you're building up your own car, you'll want to focus more on building stuff, and less on breaking everything you can, as it tends to be less entertaining, and more costly in the long run. Just a suggestion.
A minor update: The engine is completely disassembled into every last piece, and the block and crank are at the machine shop. The crank is getting ground to .50mm on the mains and rods, block checked for main bore alignment.
It's going to need: Crank grind - about 150 Main bearings - 40-60 Rod bearings - 25 Complete set of gaskets, seals, and headbolts - 230 Piston rings - 100
Doing it right the first time: PRICELESS. This better not suck this time...
Yeah, still here. I sympathize with your problems. It reminds me of a college room-mate I had who put a 327 Chevy motor in an Austin Healey 3000. So many things went wrong (glass bead left in the intake and a cocked main bearing are the ones I remember) I began to worry about his mental health. Having built a couple of OHV motors over the years, I was intimidated enough to find a crate motor for mine.
------------------ 1988 GT, 5-speed, white, beechwood leather, 3.4 DOHC 6-speed installation in process. Really. I am working on it.
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12:19 PM
PFF
System Bot
Apr 7th, 2007
SKIDMARK Member
Posts: 1350 From: Chardon, Ohio, USA Registered: Sep 2001
Yep, I'm still here. I picked up a crank kit for a 2.8 a couple years ago for <$200 that came with the crank and full set of bearings. Did you look into this option? Maybe save you a couple bucks and you get a matched set. By the way, I had to replace the crank in this <500 mile remanufactured 2.8 because it was broken in half!
Wish I could post some progress pics of my project but I haven't made any progress....too many pokers in the fire right now.
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09:16 PM
sspeedstreet Member
Posts: 2306 From: Santa Maria, CA Registered: Dec 2002
His motor is balanced and blueprinted; I think he's just going to stick with a crank regrind! (besides, he has a crate motor in his garage already just in case)
.. but I might think about trying to get one of those.. hmm!
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10:20 PM
Apr 27th, 2007
GPXSS Member
Posts: 80 From: Charlotte, NC Registered: May 2001
updates? I can't beleive this thread has gone on this long.. I keep running into it while looking for 3100/3400 swap front engine mount ideas. I figured it was long dead until I went to the last page =D
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09:53 AM
Jun 4th, 2007
SKIDMARK Member
Posts: 1350 From: Chardon, Ohio, USA Registered: Sep 2001
Any progress toward getting this back on the road?
Well I finally made some progress on mine. Got the engine installed in the car, the chip out to Ryan, finished the exhaust, and started putting the rest of the car back together. I also sold my SE which means I have to get this car on the road for my Fiero Fix. A couple of progress pics...
Any progress toward getting this back on the road?
Well I finally made some progress on mine. Got the engine installed in the car, the chip out to Ryan, finished the exhaust, and started putting the rest of the car back together. I also sold my SE which means I have to get this car on the road for my Fiero Fix. A couple of progress pics...
I've completed my 383/jet drive powered skiboat project in time for our yearly lake trip, so now I'm preparing now to build the engine for the second time - gonna need all the gaskets, head bolts, piston rings, and bearings. This time I'm going to go with King aluminum main bearings - Steven discovered them at the shop he had his engine machined at, and it's got a full 360 degree oiling groove on the #3 main, which feeds the pair of rods including the troublesome #4 which people seem to lose on these engines.
Hoping to get it reassembled, into the BAR inspection station, and if lucky, out on the street for good! Stay tuned.
I know it's been awhile, but the engine is finally assembled. While it was out, I took the liberty of ordering myself a nice, shiny new Fidanza aluminum flywheel - why not? I had the iron wheel balanced precisely to the engine when it was being machined, so I took the new flywheel over, only to find that the machinist said it was "even closer" to the flywheel we had balanced with it, and that he was impressed. It may not be the case for everybody - always get your flywheel balance transferred to the new one at a machine shop if you value your rear main bearing, crankshaft, transmission, and spinal column!
Again, I'm using the ARP 2000CC Pinto flywheel bolts, and not one, but two washers. ARP now offers another M10x1 flywheel bolt that's shorter for a Range Rover application, but cost about 4 times the price of my current bolts. I've checked carefully and the clutch disc should NOT contact the bolts, even with 2 washers. Do so at your own peril!
Would like to know more about the King aluminum main bearings.
These bearings are interesting. The main bearing with the crank thrust surfaces has a full 360 degree groove for better oiling to the rods which it feeds, including #4 which seems to spin from all the anecdotal evidence you see around. They're also all aluminum which means that they're less forgiving of misalignmen, but wear less.
Either way, don't bother looking at your local parts store - the only place I've been able to find them is at a machine shop that stocks them, namely, one way far away in the area Steven lives in. Call your local machine shops and see if they carry King engine bearings for this application. If they do, you're in luck.
It started up on he first try after a split second! No throttle at all needed. There is no exhaust connected to the rear manifold, which is why it's so obnoxious. Notice the smooth idle and how it settles down to ~1100 while still cold - quite a difference from the 13 degree exhaust retard I did last time (gotta pass BAR inspection this time). Oil pressure read 80 PSI or so while cold at ~ 2000 RPM.
All I have left to do before test run 2: - Install exhaust - Install wheels\ - Install bumper, tail lights - Install decklid - Obtain temporary operating permit - Final checks for leaks, tightening bolts, anything else
Hopefully, no more disasters this time around!
[This message has been edited by Blue Shift (edited 10-24-2007).]
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06:30 PM
Oct 25th, 2007
RUNDLC Member
Posts: 802 From: Elk Grove, California Registered: Jul 2005
SWEEETTTT Blueshift Want to come to Sac to help with mine??
Good job I sure hope mine fires that easily!! But at this point I am still at doing the mounts. I been reading alot of threads including yours so I hope to be doing what you just did shortly.
RUNDLC
[This message has been edited by RUNDLC (edited 10-25-2007).]
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12:15 AM
PFF
System Bot
Nov 2nd, 2007
SKIDMARK Member
Posts: 1350 From: Chardon, Ohio, USA Registered: Sep 2001
Excellent! It's great to see all your determination get rewarded.
I did get to drive mine back in July but it was only to a storage garage. It ran great but still had old fuel and some bugs to work out. I am building a house and sold my old house so I'm basically homeless right now until the new house is finished. It sucks not to have a garage. I miss my toys! The good news is that I should be in the new house by the end of the month but it will be a few months before I'm settled in and have the time to play with the Fiero again.
Good luck with the test drive and let us know how it turns out.
So far, so good. I've only changed oil right after breakin, and it came out nice and golden clear. I've got the coolant leak patched up (needed to seal the bypass blockoff plug better, replace a rubber cap), and stopped where some oil was leaking due to the front valve cover seal being twisted in one spot. I've also installed a custom M/T PROM and it changes a LOT about how it drives - it's a pain in the ass with the auto chip, since there's no decel fuel cut, and it'll stall as well.
I'll be back to give some driving impressions, and report on the aluminum flywheel (which I think is absolutely worth it, and don't see any downsides to).
Congrat.s sounds good, may I suggest a quick release at least for the Fiero ign. key. A quarter pound of brass is gonna waste those tumblers in no time . . . ;^) I'm sure you won't have to ask me how I know that! Maybe some day I'll regather some iniative and assemble mine, or not, but you're contributing inspiration.
Norm
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10:49 PM
Nov 6th, 2007
RUNDLC Member
Posts: 802 From: Elk Grove, California Registered: Jul 2005
Time for a mini update. The car has been running sucessfully for awhile now, but for some damn reason, there's fine metal powder in the oil after 3 changes and several hundred miles, and the oil pressure on normal 5-30 oil was a bit low at idle (oil light was flickering on). The bearings checked out ok at 360 miles or so when I opened the pan to look, but the #3 main might be a little worn. I have no idea if something is grinding itself into dust, or if this thing just takes forever to wear in.
The aluminum flywheel is great - it doesn't make the car bog prone, increases rev response nicely, and is perfectly fine for daily driving - I highly recommend it if you have the cash. In combination with the spec 2, it makes a great street combo. I think there's already a lot of rotating mass in this engine, so a heavy flywheel isn't needed.
I've just recently installed the remainder of the smog equipment - AIR system and evap canister, as well as putting the coolant bypass tube back in since I had some wild temperature fluctuations while driving - I would recommend not deleting the bypass tube if you can help it. It's even bent to clear the AIR pipes - how thoughtful of them. I'll be going outside to install the rest of the exhaust - the tailpipes and tips, and then the car should be complete... it's been a long time since I started this thread, but if I'm lucky, I'll eventually see the end of it. More updates shortly.
RUNDLC - I'm using a stock AIR pump from a 93 manual transmission car. I actually don't know the number, but it says "COLT AUTOMOTIVE PRODUCTS" on the side of the pump. It's probably one of the hardest parts to find, to do the manual swap - you'll have to find one at the junkyard, or buy it from somebody who has one.
- so loud it clips out the audio 
