there is one line in there that is the key, that if you do run the pan dry, it is because the returns are not flowing th oil back fast enough. that has always been an issue. when you install your heads be sure that the return hole is not half blocked by the gasket, and that the valle lines up. be sure the webs between the cam and block do not have thin casting remnantsblocking off the front and rear returns. use a windage tray. use a std hv pump, there are differrent hv pumps too. some are just barely larger than stock some have gears that are 1/4 inch or more longer. the one I got seems like the right one, as it was only about 1/8-3/16'ths longer, a little tweak. a windage tray for oil control is a necessity on any config, as with transvers mounted motors a left turn will pull oil away from the pickup to the shallow end of the pan where the counterweights can whip it up. from past expereince with a fiero, even moderate normal driving if the oil is low will cause the oil pressure drops on corners. I see this greatly reduced on this motor with the windage tray when oil got low. (had a bad leak on the relocation system, which is now off pending some modifications). having the proper bypas regulator spring in the pump can help too. too high a pressureon hv will cause extra load on the motor. if it is the correct pump for the motor tho, it should have the correct relief spring and load should be essentially the same.
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03:40 PM
ICouldaBeenAV8 Member
Posts: 692 From: Chatsworth, California; Clearwater, Florida, and Milwaukee, Wisc. Registered: Jun 2003
Getting close to mounting the engine and transmission to the cradle. Picked up a belt tensioner at the pull-it yard today and fabed a mount for it . It attaches to the two large bolts that hold the motor mount L bracket and the third point is the bottom alt. bolt. It will take a K040450 gates belt. Here is the braket.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 03-03-2008).]
All finished. This was kind of a prototype but should do the job just fine. Don't think there will be any belt noise from this one. The position indicator ended up dead center. The tensioner is from a 96 Grand Prix but is used on a lot of other GM's.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 10-21-2006).]
Getting close. Engine and Tranny are back together. Since this picture was taken I also replace the old Alternator with the newer SC model. Easy update and worth it I think.
Figured I'd replace the fuel pump since it was a nice day. Do it the easy way with lot of room. Pulled out another part that came with the hoist. This bar worked much better than just the chain I used the first time.
Next get the injector tester/cleaner built and get the injectors installed. The Alt. has a noisy bearing so will upgrade to an CS Alt. http://www.novaresource.org/alternator.htm
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-01-2006).]
OK, got the injector test box built and tested the injectors today. Didn't take time to build up the test board will do that at a later date.
I had two sets of injectors. The 2.8 which had not run in over 2 years, and the 3.4 which had not run in ???.
I first tested the 2.8 injectors. Have read where others have said that if they sat for long they usually where not any good. I can understand what they probably where saying but they are not totally dead, just gummed up. 4 of the injectors fired right away, the other 2 I had to work over a bit to get them firing. They did come out of it but without a tester would never had known if they where bad or not after being in the car. They probably would not have started working if in the car. It took a bit to get them to fire again. The test box fires them about the rate they fire at 1K rpm. After getting them firing I run them for 5 min. and measured the the output. 5 of them produced 48-50 ml and the third about 30.(one that was stuck) It was interesting that after getting them working they actually work well.
The one bad one would probably came out of it also but decided to test the 3.4 injectors.
I then 3.4 injectors had three stuck but came out of it very easily. All the 3.4 inj. tested 55-58 ml with my test rate. I guess I will install the 3.4 inj. and deal with a rich condition later.
How did I test. Well here is the rigging. Does not look like much but it worked well.
In the block is a can with the fuel pump I removed from the 85 in the pics above. it seem to work well so guess it didn't need to be replace but needed one for my tester anyway. I used a mix of sea foam, gas, and paint thinner to clean and test flow. I used the battery from my garden tractor for power keeping a small charger on it. The small box in the lower right is the test box. It consist of a dual timer chip. One timer is a one shot timer set for the length of pulse I wanted. I intend to use this as a single shoot for doing balance testing at a later date on other cars. The other timer provides the repeat pulse to fire the single shot. This way it fires the inj. at a set pulse width repeatedly as long as needed. Could let the cleaner run thru an inj. for hours if needed.
The 3.4 inj. are now installed on the motor and should be ready to install the cradle and all in a week or less.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 03-03-2008).]
Not to push our intakes, but we have heard from our customers that they get better gas millage with our intake than the stock unit. If you think about it, it makes sense. Whereas the stock intake makes the engine go richer and richer above 4K rpm and rich translates into poor gas milage. Thus, with more useable rpm that will not go rich you can have your pie and eat it too. More power and better milage. So, even if you don't want to go with our intake you may want to do something like get a DM reworked intake which should also help to some degree.
One more point or two, A/F ratios are a very big factor when it comes to gas milage and so are rpms. Most people tend to shift at low RPMs to get better gas milage. That will usualy produce the opersit affect. Shifting too soon makes the engine lug, IE low rpm and little manifold vacuum. If you ride a 10spd bike and shift too soon you find yourself standing on the pedals. You're burning more fuel (calories) when you do that while engine burns more gas. Now I'm not suggesting you should shift at 6K with the TB wide open. But if you find that your foot has to press noticably harder on the gas after each shift and then back off, youre probably shifting too soon. Oh, and lugging an engine will put more wear on your bearings then reving it higher. Just think about what your knees feel like when you shift 10 spd too soon. I suspect there will be counter views on this topic.
Great progress Dodgerunner, I like your injector set-up, everything looks great, I`m anxious to see you get it on the road here shortly .. Iv`e not heard alot of ill effects of running with the 3.4 injectors. Keep the pics/progress coming...
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11:47 AM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
Thought I would post my schemo in case someone was interested. I used the resistors indicated. I listed the others if faster pulses are wanted. I intend to add a switch to be able to change speeds. The last half can be used to single fire an injector for doing a balancing test with a push button modification.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 11-09-2006).]
Well ready to install the cradle and all into the car but wanted to clean and finish off the belly first. Back up on the hoist and finished the back 2/3 of the belly. Once the engine is in and running will do the front 1/3 as well as pull the front member and clean and paint.
While cleaning the belly found the right rear coolant bracket was in bad shape, left was not bad. So happened to have some stainless the same thickness so fab'd one to replace the right.
Getting close. Forgot to port the Y pipe. Will get that done and then hope to fire it up this week.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 11-12-2006).]
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11:28 PM
Nov 13th, 2006
Raydar Member
Posts: 40963 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Thought I would post my schemo in case someone was interested. I used the resistors indicated. I listed the others if faster pulses are wanted. I intend to add a switch to be able to change speeds.
Well I'm ready to put the motor in the car but had to make good on building a few belt tensioner mounts before I slip it back in. Then I also remembered I had not looked at the Y pipe to see if porting would really make a difference.
Well here is the before and after pic. While there is some restriction don't know how bad it really is but took it out like others have.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 11-19-2006).]
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08:41 PM
Nov 20th, 2006
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
You want to use the 3.4 injectors. Would you put 2.0L injectors in a 2.8L? hell no. They are sized for the engine. People have even put bigger injectors in without running too rich. Porting the exhaust you want to keep it smaller on the head as to help stop the back wave that happens. When the exhaust gases hit the low pressure area it sends a wave back at the engine so the step helps to stop it before it hits the piston. I aggree on the high volume oil pump, so does "Horse Power TV" it can run your engine out of oil.
I love to see another 3.4L in a Fiero as it keeps the look that a Fiero has.
quote
Originally posted by Francis T:
Not to push our intakes, but we have heard from our customers that they get better gas millage with our intake than the stock unit.
If you don't want to push it then why did you? I have gotten 32MPG at 80MPH on the stock intake. Anyone beat this on a different intake? Now it did drop to 22MPG at 100MPH.
Besides at $600 for the intake, if it gave you 5MPG more(very high guess) it would take about 30,000 miles to pay for it.
I love the injector testor and great pic of the Y-Pipe.
Its looking good though, can't wait to see it on the road. Too many non-running Fieros we need more on the road. The more people see them the more people want them, and the more....well you get the idea.
Dodgerunner, Top notch work as always--can I/we trouble you for more angles pics of how to do the y-pipe restriction, where exactly you started cutting and what you used .....
sardonyx247 thanks for the reply. What tranny are you running. 32mpg is what I was hoping for. Since I'm planning on it being a daily driver I wanted to get all the mileage I could out of it. That's why I went with the 5 sp izzy.
SuperFast don't know that more pictures would show much more. Basicaly I took a small cutoff wheel and cut the pipe off right below the Y.
The factory makes the pipe by putting the two ends flattened together and welding across the flat, then inserting it into the larger pipe and welding around the joint. On mine they didn't completely weld the Y between the pipes shut so I finished the weld to close off any leak that could ocurr from grinding the inside weld off.
I then started using my die grinder to remove the web inside the Y but found the metal hard enough that it would take to long. I then used my OxyA torch to cut the web out and then clean it up with the grinder. On the untouched Y photo I marked the area that you can remove in yellow.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-01-2006).]
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08:42 AM
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Well it's the day to fire up the 3.4PR. Took the last pictures of it installed. This will be as clean as it ever will be since it will be on the road when done.
I also eliminated the TB coolant tubes. Sure makes getting to the distributor in a lot easier.
Took the afternoon off since it was 65*. That didn't last long and as I got ready to give it a try the temp started dropping quickly. High tomorrow is going to be 29* Rolled the car out of the garage, got the fire extinguisher, garden hose, fan (artificial wind), Laptop/Winaldl for data acquisition, battery charger, fresh gas, camera, kitchen sink.
Gave it a try, got some fire but didn't sound right. Check the plug wires and found I had two on the front switched and two on the back switched. How the heck did I do that. Turned them around and fired right up. Ran smooth, but since I had to break the new cam in kept the rpm's between 1500 and 2K for a good 30 minutes. Found that the temp gauge and oil pressure gauge are not working but everything sounded ok. Just to be sure put a mechanical gauge on and pressure was 70psi on startup and 45 hot, alls well.
Was amazed that there was not more smoke from all the new paint. I painted the manifolds with 2000* paint. I expected the manifolds to burn off or discolor after running the engine for an hour. They hardly changed at all. Has anyone used the 2000* silicone spray paint? How long did your's stand up? What should I expect them to do? Anyway here is a picture of them after 1 hour of running. Compare them to the heat shields which are painted with the same paint.(Will if you could see them you could.) After I had the logs welded I sand blasted them and then paint with the 2000* paint I got from OReilly's. Followed the instructions on the can and baked them three times at increasing temperature.
Think in the spring I'll pull all the shields and air tube and re-paint them with the hi temp silver to clean up the rest of the bay.
Now onto the brakes, clutch cylinder, gauges, body work, interior cleanup, etc, etc, etc.
Looked over the ALDL logs from the running. Have to note these where taken from a static run.
I was interested in how the ECM would respond to the larger injectors. Was told the ecm should be able to handle them. Here is some comparison information from this run. With the 3.4 injectors installed the INT was running around 110 when the engine was up to temp. This compares to my 88 which runs 128-132 if held off idle.
The BPW was running at 82, the 88 runs a little over 100. Since the 3.4 injectors are about 20% larger than the 2.8's that comes out just right.
The O2 was switching nicely so might not have to do any Prom changes after all. time will tell.
Congrats on a great build---looks new again too. !!!! Time to race it... Nothing like that feeling of firing up a project after the blood, seat & tears that go into them.... I`m very glad for you, after the rest is finished, when are you starting the next one? ..lol...
Have rebuild the front and rear calipers from kits. Yes I could have just bought reman's and even go a good deal on them since my son works for Oreilly's as a part time job. But from what some had posted they have had issues with the rear reman's so figured I could do as good of job as a sweat shop paying some poor dude $7 an hour. Time will tell.
I then put a rebuild kit into the clutch slave Cyl. The old piston was an O ring seal, the new is a lip seal. Now have a full clutch stroke.
I am using the 85 V6 cyl with the 5sp izzy trany. Don't know what I did with the original slave rod so I used one of the old 2.8 push rods. I cut it to the length I needed and then put a round head bolt into the end hole. So far so good.
Now onto building the adapter to connect the V6 shift cables to the 5sp izzy.
May have it on the road in the next week.. whoooohoooo!
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06:27 PM
Dec 17th, 2006
fierodeletre Member
Posts: 834 From: Behind Animal's Drum Set. Registered: Oct 2006
Looking great, Dodgerunner! I'd like to see pics of your slave cylinder adaptation, and of your rear caliper rebuilds, if you should have any... cheers Austin
------------------ If you can't be good, be good at it.
Looking great, Dodgerunner! I'd like to see pics of your slave cylinder adaptation, and of your rear caliper rebuilds, if you should have any... cheers Austin
Here is a thread of a slave rebuild I did. Mine had the lip seal but I ALSO put in an O-ring. Clutch Slave pics and my fix
The underbody "paint" is actually JCWhitney rust proofing spray. You cut it with a little paint thinner and it goes on really smooth and shinny and stays that way for about a year or so. I mainly wanted to rust proof the bottom. Not make it show quality.
On my slave cyl. the old seal I could do that. The new replacement one filled the complete groove so you could not add an o ring. Will see how well it last.
Dr
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-31-2007).]
Got the shifter linkage done to mate the V6 4sp Izzy shift cables to the 5sp Izzy. I have the cable tucked up right under the TB. They now set a good 2 inches above the heat shield instead of laying on it like they did with the 4sp. I didn't want to use the 5sp 4cyl. cables and run them over the top of the TB due to the length. The 4sp cables run to short so adaptor was the only way to go.
Tomorrow is the test run unless it's raining which is the forcast.
Brakes still feel great, Clutch still giving a full stroke, Shifter working, thing are good with the world.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-28-2006).]
Bump for day shift. And it's raining so no drive today unless it dries off but suppose to rain the next three days. bummer. Maybe for the new year. Will give me time to clean the interior and fix the small things.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-29-2006).]
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10:06 AM
Dec 30th, 2006
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
Bump for day shift. And it's raining so no drive today unless it dries off but suppose to rain the next three days. bummer. Maybe for the new year. Will give me time to clean the interior and fix the small things.
Too bad on the rain. looking real nice there DR! just one question, is it possible to ever fix all the small things on a fiero?????
That thing looks new, really nice detailed work all the way through the whole job. I like the logs, will have to get the recipe again and print them out----we are anxiously awaiting the wheather to clear up. pppsssstt, push your brake booster clamp up a hair so it wraps around the top plentum nipple .
That thing looks new, really nice detailed work all the way through the whole job. I like the logs, will have to get the recipe again and print them out----we are anxiously awaiting the wheather to clear up. pppsssstt, push your brake booster clamp up a hair so it wraps around the top plentum nipple .
Yes good eyes, the clamp is already done since that pic was taken a couple weeks ago. The shifter cables took longer than I wanted due to illness getting in the way and the holidays.
You should see what an octopus the support plate for the shift cables is since it's at an angle and rotated and all the mounting places are at angles also. It has three legs going every which direction. I was in a hurry to get it on and didn't take any pics.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-30-2006).]
Overall not bad found a few issues I need to adjust.
The clutch slave rebuild worked great however my slave pushrod is just a little to long. The clutch did not quite engage all the way and to much throttle caused the clutch to slip. No big deal there. The clutch moved so far since the rod is a little to long that if the peddle was pushed to the floor the clutch fingers would hit on the clutch housing and make a clicking.
Second is have to adjust the shifter linkage to get reverse to engage. Have all 5 forward but can't get enough throw to get into reverse. Easy fix also.
The good is love seeing 1.5K rpm at 50 mph. On the 88 auto it runs 2K+.
Rain and snow again tomorrow so wil have time to make adjustment until it get dry again.
Getting so close I can taste it...
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10:48 PM
Jan 27th, 2007
pheonix97031 Member
Posts: 316 From: Corvallis, Oregon, USA Registered: Sep 2006
I pulled the transmission for the second time and carefully measured the transmission distance to the TO bearing and the Clutch to block distances of the clutch exceeds the TO distance by 1/4 inch.
There is no way the 5sp isuzu transmission I have will work on this engine. I can't understand how other have not run into a problem since I'm not doing beyond standard parts.
I measured the block to clutch face difference on both the 3.4 and old 2.8 and they are the same. Measured the clutch/PP thickness compared the a new 4cyl clutch and they are the same.
Measured the 4sp transmission and 5sp transmission and they ARE different.
So either there are different 5sp out there or there are different clutch packs out there then I have.
Well the 4sp is back in. Have 1/2" of free play in the clutch lever with the 4sp where I had -0 with the 5sp. These two transmissions are different in depth.
Anyway after I get the slave cyl. installed tomorrow it's out for the first good run since the 3.4 install. Can't wait...!
The more people see them the more people want them, and the more....well you get the idea.
