The time has finally came, I completed parts collection today. I will be working with 2 fieros, one 88 coupe with about 100k miles and perfectly rustless body, and a 86SE as a sorta parts car, mostly for body. I have a 97 3800SC 50K miles out of a GTP, that will be paired with a 98 transmission with about 140K miles. Ordering a wiring harness and PCM shortly from a guy on ClubGP, pulled from a 98 GTP.

Parts list as of April 27

97 L67 longblock $500
98 4t65e-hd trans $250
98 wiring harness $100
Various engine parts $60
86SE parts car $Free
88 coupe with 100k miles $150
new brake pads for 88 $free
Spare 88GT cradle /w swaybar $free
Walbro fuel pump $90
Gaskets for motor $70
Hospital bill for broken knuckles $Millions
Downpipe $44
Muffler and some tailpipe material $78

To-do List For this summer
Collect all parts - DONE?
Rebuild motor (intake/exhaust manifolds), and mount trans - done
Setup ACC drive belt - DONE
Build axels - drivers side done, pass side has a temp one for now
Tear down and clean 88coupe engine bay - DONE
Fix rear brake line - 2 hours + a trip to parts store DONE
Figure out trans cooling - TRANS COOLER NOW INSTALLED!!!
Mount suspension on 88GT cradle - DONE
Fab mounts / mount drivetrain on 88GT (now detirmed to be a prototype) cradle - done
Adapt body harness to 98GTP PCM using c500 and c203 connectors - DONE
Find out what is needed for programing PCM for fiero - DONE
Program 98GTP PCM for use in fiero - done
Make coolant fill T connector / Tap the intake heater core hole - DONE
Replace fuel pump with walbro style pump - DONE
Run fuel lines (not gerry rigged) - ended up rigged, but no leaks.

Checklist of things to do eventually
Change over 86se body AREO body kit to 88 coupe -
Tons of paint and various body work -
Non-stock fiero shifter - stock, and I like it
Power features off of 86se put on 88 coupe - pending a electirc power upgrade
New suspension bushings/bearings - alignment great, new everything in rear, front 90% solid.
Swap 3100/4t60e into parts car and sell it - never going to happen


I really really want a good place to host all my pictures, as I think there will be more than 100 when I am done. If anyone has 30-40 megs of reliable webspace they can spare with please pm me, preferabley with ftp or ftp like access.

Will be 20+ pics as soon as I get a good host (not image shack unless I have to)

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-24-2006).]

Only thing I see is an issue with what you have listed the high milage 65-E that you are going to use. 140K on a trans going into this swap is going to be asking for trouble in the long run. maybe you picked this one because it was cheap but you might wanna look at getting another one to use for your swap. Have fun with the swap and dont worry about all the frustration that goes along with it. the first time you start the swap and get to drive it, that makes it all worth it. Good luck with the swap and drop me a line if you need any help, I have done 2 3800SC swaps and working on a 3rd one to say. With the 65E, you have to run OBD2--are you going to do the harness or have someone else do it?

I am just gambling on the transmission, will just rebuild with perf parts when it blows up, basicly buying it as a core that will work for mockup purpouses.

Doing all wiring myself, nothing fancy, just adapting, not re looming.

Looks like you have your list ready to go. Looking forward to the build pics. Take your time, also as mentioned above --things get frustrating ---keep your eyes ahead to the finished project. Wrench throwing and cursing are part of the conversion--it just doesn`t mention that in build threads..lol... Good Luck...

Well, I have almost unlimited time coming up for the next 4 months or so but, I hope to have it finished in 8 weeks from this weekend.

Update

Fiero is in my newly cleaned garage. Wiring is on the way. Motor and trans are cleaned up and ready to be assembled after I buy gaskets.

darkhorizon, your off & running --good deal---keep the pics coming ----- re-read your list ---you know you don`t have to do this *Find out what is needed for programing PCM for fiero * you won`t have this thing anymore... All you need programmig for is the new 3800SC PCM.. Glad you got everything ready--looking forward to the build..

sounds like fun, or at least it will be


are those subs just mounted on a baffle? no box?

you really DON't need the PCM re programed.
I have been running all this time without ANY work done on the stock PCM. food for thought.
BUT if you WANT to...Loyde @ fastfieros will do it

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88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. 12" Vette Rotors,Custom stuff done

I will mostly be doing a DHP 1.5 program on it, I would like to know what check engine codes to remove for evap and other stuff I am deleting. I am also looking to do my friends manual L67 programing, and I am curious how people trick the pcm into not caring how fast it is going.

looks very cool man, i'm in flint right now at school, drop me a line so we can talk fieros, i'd love to check out the swap in person or help out if i can.

hutch
847-744-0916

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my aim is sc10wolf, I am allways on with no away msg so just send me somthing!

Rusted in cradle is coming out today or tommorow for sure! Heading out right now to try to get these stubborn front cradle bolts out (firing up the torches first thing)

Gaskets are getting picked up in annarbor at the manufactering plant for 47.80, aside from the $122 that ZZP wanted for them. Engine should be mounted to trans by weekend, how close it is to staying on the cradle is yet to be seen. Wish me luck!

quote Originally posted by revin: you really DON't need the PCM re programed. I have been running all this time without ANY work done on the stock PCM. food for thought. BUT if you WANT to...Loyde @ fastfieros will do it

This is not exactly correct. Only a couple of year models had the VAT disabled by mistake, and those were fixed in later releases of the OSID updates for those models. If you buy a 99 PCM that was flashed from the dealer today, it would not start a engine without a BCM, or theft module.

Loyde

Cradle came out today, broke one rear bolt right off, had to cut the frame to get the other rear off (took 2 hours), both front bolts had to be cut with a sawzall, 2 times each. Other than the bolts, it was a really easy drop, my custom made cradle caddie was a dream! Those big casters rolled that thing right out from under that car with just me, all 130lbs of me, to push it around.





While doing all this, I ended up finding that my trunk rust is a bit worse than I imagined it to be. Going to just bandaid it now with some rustoleum.

I am now curious as to what I should use for the tranny cooling, is the stock fiero setup going to work for me? do I bypass it and run a fully custom system? Addon cooler?

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 05-16-2006).]

Got the fuel tank out today, and my suspention off the old cradle. Took some stuff out of the engine compartment, random sheilds and such, I am wondering if I need to reinstall those later? I ended up striping a nut on one of the fuel tanks t-bolts, had to suit up in leathers and cut it off with an angle grinder. It went easy enough, I just took the AC lines off.

Might go back out and try to wrap up the fuel tank, get it on its way back in at least. Leave me some comments, I need to discuss after this stressfull day!

Nice work on the swap but I have one question. I noticed your new cradle has some sort of extension on the rear mount, where did it come from? I noticed you're in Michigan and you said it's been sitting around since the 80's...

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Alan Frazier

'84 2m4 project car
'86 GT-'92 3.4 TDC 5 speed(sold)

Just went out to work on the fuel tank situation some, got all the parts there, just need to get a piece of tube the right size to go in between the sending unit and the pump. Sorta interesting, I think the stock pump was in there but it was all EXTREMELY clean, I mean it the sending unit looked brand new. Maybe this was all just compared to the cradle bolts it looks new, ehh well the new pump is going in as soon as I can find some in tank rated fuel line.

I just wanted to comment on how easy it is to mess with that fuel tank when the car is 4 feet in the air and there is no cradle, its next to impossible with the car on the ground and the cradle in. And on another note, anyone know if you can get those "T" bolts at any random local car parts stores? I see that fiero store has them, and of course they say that they are impossible to find anywere (somtimes they excagerate on that a bit).

Also, I messed with my brake line problem. There is a thing, lets call it a junction block, that splits the rear brake lines into 2 parts in the rear, and it happens to be right by my super rusted area. I ended up breaking everything off of that except the line that goes to the driver side, I even broke the bolt holding it in off (which broke the short line going to the pass. side caliper). So basicly, I have to get a new line to go to the pass side brake, and I am thinking about splicing in about a 3 foot section for my orginal problem area, the main line going to the juntion block. I dont like the idea of splicing much at all, but I think it will be easier than pulling the line out of my parts car, pulling the line out of my project car, and then running the parts car's line back through. Speaking of parts cars, having one makes projects ALOT easier.

There was tons of rusty metal buildup in the rear lower frame rails, I blew large chucks of crud out of there for what seemed like 20 mins. I dont seem to be finding rust in any other areas then this frame rail lower trunk area, the battery tray is only cosmeticly rusted. Things around this frame rail are still shiny from factory paint, so its sorta weird looking at it, I might get some pictures later.

As far as my cradle goes, I got it at a auction that a school had when it cleaned out its garage. A getrag and a 2.8 were sitting on top of it. After looking around a bit, we found an 88gt, with a L67 swaped into it in the back yard of the place, no, it wasnt for sale, but we can only imagine that this is what that came out of. The odometer said somthing close to nothing on it, and judging by the condition of the cradle, we can only asume it is from the same car. My buddy put the motor into his fiero, and he is currently holding on to the getrag, It is in a mostly unknown condition, we found some tags on the cradle and trans that said somthing leading us to think the trans was bad. While we were there, we picked up a fwd muncie 4speed we just found laying in the yard that we ended up rebuilding a fiero muncie with. I live right by the school, and have been going back there ever now and then to inquire about the swapped 88gt, it is still there.

As far as an extension on the rear mount, I know for a fact that cradle is 100% stock 88gt, but there is allways a possiblity that it may be a 89 prototype due to the fact it came from a school. I will get some more pictures of it tommorow, but what do you mean by rear mount? Rear transmission mount I assume?
Here is another picture I found of it

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 05-18-2006).]

Hurry up and finish so we can see that paint re done, lol like I should talk. HAHA

that is not a stock 88 cradle. those cups on the rear frame mounts shouldn;t be there. there is only a thin isolator there, and it bolts right up to the framerail. actually I have no idea what that isolator was, it was deteriorated beyond recognition.
I have to go thru my pics to see if I have a clear shot of the cradle. maybe tomorrow nite.

Weird, whats up with this? I am very interested in this now, I am going to take some more accurate measurements to see what is going on. I have my old cradle out and I see how that is all setup, I will get some detailed dimentions when I go change my rims on my car tonight.

I am waiting on tracking down parts so everything is on hold for now, I need a break from this stuipd rust bucket.

It looks like the top of the rear cradle mounts do end up in the same position. Those "cups" make up for the lower height of the boxed in portion compared to a regular 88 cradle.. maybe GM was going to use bushings on the 88s originally and that cradle was modded to be solid-mounted by adding the steel cups.

-Steven

The smaller control arms had dates on them, somthing about 1986, and the motor mount had 1987 on it. The title of the stickers were for a "CPC Engineering".

Finished up my brake lines and fuel pump install today, finishing off all body work other than some switches that will be installed during the wiring phase, and the cradle bolts and nuts that I need to replace. My brake line fix went much better than expected, everything flared right the first time, and I cut everything to an unbeivlibly perfect length.

Still need to testfit my new cradle, might try to get my bolts and that taken care of tommorow, along with putting my intake manifold and valve covers on.

Intake, valve covers, fuel tank, brake lines are all mounted up and ready to go. Going to maybe finally get the trans put on the motor today, then try to get the 2 oppositely charged motor and cradle to go together by the end of sunday! Then the next week will be wiring and such, then thrusday and friday I hope to be installing the shifter and throttle.

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: This is not exactly correct. Only a couple of year models had the VAT disabled by mistake, and those were fixed in later releases of the OSID updates for those models. If you buy a 99 PCM that was flashed from the dealer today, it would not start a engine without a BCM, or theft module. Loyde

Wow Loyde I did not realize that! Makes some sense though...
So I should say just 98 GTP'S don't need the re-program?

Sorry Dark, I guess you could call this an uninvited " BUMP"
HEY MORE PICS OF THE MOTOR!

Please bump my thread!! I still have alot of questions I would like some answers to here.

My motor isnt anything to look at right now, I just put the intake mani on, nothing is painted fancy, and I dont have my alternator relocated nor the ac compressor on. Thats what today is maybe going to accomplish, as I got the motor and trans together last night, so now I can try doing a Darthfiero style low alt mount using my 88 alternator.

One thing that threw me off is when my buddy came over to help me line up the engine trans, I got all the bolts in, but the one with the big dowel that sits under the egr, it doesnt have threads in it? I have an bolt from putting everything else back together, and it doesnt want to do anything in this hole?

You have a PM concerning A/C

OK fourm guys, this is where you get to lend some help

Things with the swap have been going VERY slow, I find myself messing with stuipd body panels now, not getting anything done ever. I am trying to get the engine cradle mounts made up now, but I have so many ideas, I cant decide on one. Also, I dont know if any of these ideas will even work, so I REALLY need some input on guys that have either put mounts in or designed them theirselfs. WCF sells theirs, but the site makes almost no sence (to me anyway) as far as where and how these mounts work.

The biggest problem I am running into, is none has documented the mounts in a 88 5speed, which seems to have a very unique cradle design. I am really looking for loyde to chime in here, as I know he has done a few 88 5speed auto swaps.


On a lighter note, I am almost done stripping my donar fiero of all its body panels, and I am wondering if anyone has converted grouved trim to smooth trim with somthing like bondo or somthing. I have a 85gt bumper I want to put on (I have the inner fenders too), but I want it to have the smooth trim.

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Check out my 3800 swap thread and lend your advice!

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/072877.html

nothing an the above???

Save yourself alot of time and pain and buy the mounts from WCF, well worth the money. For the auto swap you will need all 3 poly mounts(2 trans/1 engine) and then the 2 auto trans mounts and the engine mount. If you have the older 65E then get the trans mount that doesnt list as later model. If the car is a 5 speed now, then find an auto radiator and some tran fluid lines to add to the car. All 88 cradles are the same wether they are 4/6 cylinders, the 4 banger auto cradle has an extra mount on it though. Not forsure what else you need to know but you can shoot me a PM if you want. I have done a few swaps so I have learned a lot.

It sure is nice that money can fix just about any problem out there nowadays, but in my case there is no money available for these mounts, and I really want to be able to call this project my own, from start to finish. I have kept 100% true to this thanks to help friends I have met along the way, But I still insist on doing all the fabricating myself.

My current plan is to get ALL the mounts cut off the cradle (the 2 5speed mounts came off, and I am going to hack the main engine mount and bracket off soon). Then I will put a small mount on the front side of the motor, onto the front cross memeber. Then run a small bent peice of steel over the trans mount area by the starter. Then I will try to figure out how to get a back driver mount rigged up, I am mostly sure I have the "late" style transmission that mustang hinted at, but I see 3 threaded holes at the bottom of my trans casing, that might do the trick, but I might incorperate that upper "boss" that WCF talks about. For my "dogbone" mount, I plan to mount that under the final drive casing on the trans, to complement the small engine mount on the front crossmember.

I still need to figure out what I am doing about my stuipid accessory belt, where the 88 alternator is going, and trying to decide if I am going to run ac or an idler or an alternator in its place.

Programming on the PCM is done, basicly I confermed that vats is turned off, which is typical of a 98 anyway. Got some wiring done, but still have to do the bulk of it.

Still looking for any and all mount input if anyone can say it.

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Check out my 3800 swap thread and lend your advice!

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/072877.html

more pictures.... is it on the cradle yet?

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85 GT, bright blue met. fastback, 18"s, 91' 350 SBC / Muncie 4spd
thread here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/058999.html
85.5 Porsche 944 euro *for sale*
73 VW Karmann Ghia convertible (sold to finish SBC swap)

Going out to take pictures, and explain were I am making my mounts to go on the cradle.

Its "on" the cradle, just not bolted to it right now. I have it shimmed and leveled and straight on, so I can make the mounts tommorow.

DOWN WITH WEST COAST FIERO MOUNTS !!!!!

I am hoping to prove wrong the 10+ people that have told me to buy WCF mounts. I WILL mount my motor for less than $20.

I should change this thread to "The real economy engine swap"

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Check out my 3800 swap thread and lend your advice!

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/072877.html