I only had time to clean out the garage this weekend, then check the coolant lines under the doors - and they look like new. No dents or even a scratch.

I will check into the hydrocarbons soon - and measure the cap height.

If there was hot air getting past the head gasket, would I not see air in the lines or would it just go out the overflow? I ask because the rear cap is higher than the front cap and I have not seen air under the rear cap - ever.

Could the heater hoses running under the car pose a problem? I'm wondering if there is air in them, affecting the system pressure (which reminds me of another suggestion to check the system pressure. They are connected together somewhere up front now that the entire heating system was removed.

More to come!

If hot air could get into the coolant on the power stroke, you would think coolant would be drawn into the cylinder and oil on the intake stroke? But maybe it only lets the higher pressures of combustion get past?

yes you can have a one way leak. the pressures on cylinder fireare very high, and can force thru a head gasket into the coolant.
BUT you would see air in the system, and regardless of what some might say, air will accumulate in the highest point in any system.
the hydrocarbon sniffer will show that.
I really think you should splice in some reinforced clear tubing (get a foot of the right size from a home center), on the outpput of the tstat housing. you should also use a low pressure cap, 7lbs when you use this. watch the flow of fluid, if you see it go real cloudy and foamy looking, you might have either a hot spot in the block, an air leak into the system, or some type of cavitation issue.
in lieu of all that, drain the system completely. flush it out. fill it with plain water. see how it reacts with just plain water. antifreeze tends to hold airation alot longer, and aireated fluids will xfer heat very well.
just a few thoughts.
from the history of what's going on here, you either have some really wierd flow issue, or you have an airation issue.

Well, the Autozone folks never heard of checking coolant for hydrocarbons.
I wonder who would...

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Well, the Autozone folks never heard of checking coolant for hydrocarbons. I wonder who would...

Autozone will hire based on you knowing how to use a cash register, and that is about all that is required. I went to one once and asked for wheel studs. He did not know what they were, so I had to explain it to him. While I was trtying to explain what wheel stud was the manaer came out and helped me instead.

------------------

Sig by F-I-E-R-O

Try asking for a combustion leak detector kit.
this is an example, it is a tad expensive. used to be about 30$ or so.
http://store.autotoolexpress.com/colete.html
here;s a cheaper one:
http://midwayautosupply.com/p-11892-lisle-combustion-leak-detector-75500.aspx

you can make your own too with just the fluid, a clear plasic bottle, a rubber stopper and some tubing. you just need to draw any air in the coolant system thru the tube so it bubbles up thru the fluid. the fluid is usually blue, and turns yellow if hydrocarbons are present. it is fairly sensitive too.

course splicing in a clear hose may just tell you all you need to know and should cost less than 10$

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: Try asking for a combustion leak detector kit. this is an example, it is a tad expensive. used to be about 30$ or so. http://store.autotoolexpress.com/colete.html here;s a cheaper one: http://midwayautosupply.com/p-11892-lisle-combustion-leak-detector-75500.aspx you can make your own too with just the fluid, a clear plasic bottle, a rubber stopper and some tubing. you just need to draw any air in the coolant system thru the tube so it bubbles up thru the fluid. the fluid is usually blue, and turns yellow if hydrocarbons are present. it is fairly sensitive too. course splicing in a clear hose may just tell you all you need to know and should cost less than 10$

Sounds like it is time to make friends at an auto repair shop!

I'll see what I can do to check this. It sounds like a real good idea after I try the clear tubing.

Thanks!

Is that the same tool/instrumnet you can barrow from auto zone. I did that to pressure my system and ending keeping thing (buying it) i liked it so much.

As I have said before

quote Originally posted by Butter: Check the radiator to make sure when the car is running before it gets pressure the flues are flowing out and not squirting out. Squirting out is a sign the flues are clogged up and need rodding.

I'm still leaning toward a headgasket or cracked head leak causing your problems but do check the above. From the lack of info from Yons and attitude you relate from him sounds like not a lot of pains were taken building your car.

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Sounds like it is time to make friends at an auto repair shop! I'll see what I can do to check this. It sounds like a real good idea after I try the clear tubing. Thanks!

I have that tool if you can get to me.
Dave

go to the nearest autozone and loan out that tester. and you can stop guesing about it!

quote Originally posted by Butter: As I have said before I'm still leaning toward a headgasket or cracked head leak causing your problems but do check the above. From the lack of info from Yons and attitude you relate from him sounds like not a lot of pains were taken building your car.

To check the flues for flow, I assume I have to drain the system enough to see down in there. I'll check on it, Butter.

I can get the pressure tester Francis T is talking about, but that is not the hyrdrocarbon tester. Will checking the pressure do me any good if I'm looking for a small head gasket leak?

I suppose it would not hurt to check the pressure regardless.

Today, I checked Advance for hydrocarbon testers and clear hose, but there was nothing there. Of course, they have never heard of such a test -and don't even have a cooling system pressure tester. I will try Pep Boys next since they have an attached service garage - and possibly a hydrocarbon tester.

Thanks bmwguru - I wish I had the time to get up there. Google says it is almost 4 hours away. Damn!

auto stores won't have the clear tubing. I got mine at home depot, it is clear with a threaded type braiding in it. it will handle moderate pressure, and limited heat, not somehting to leave on and drive around with.

if you can get the fluid for the compression leak tester, you can make your own tester, it isn't rocket science. you would need about 10' of 1/8" or so clear plastic tube (Less if you have some sort of external vacuum pump,and won;t need to pull vacuum off the engine), a coffee jar with lid, a rubber stopper that will fit securely in your radiator cap opening and a hot glue gun. drill a hole the tube will fit snugly thru in the stopper, push the hose thru to the bottom edge. cut it about 2'. drill 2 holes in the coffee jar lid the size of the tubing. put it on the jar, insert the tube fron the stopper till it just touches the bottom and glue it in place. put the other lenght just thru the top and glue it in place. fill the jar about 1/2 way with the fluid. to test, you can hang the stopper near the exhaust, and connect the other tube to any hand vaccum port. you should see the fluid change to yellow after a few seconds. take the stopper away, and let clean air bubble thru and it will turn back to blue.
to do the test, get the car hot. releive the pressure at the radiator, and drain some fluid out. raise the front so the radiator is higher than the tstat, this really wont work at the tstat cause the fluid flow will force the coolant into the tester. (any of them, not just a home made one). install the plug in the radiator and start the car. put a vacuum on the long piece of tube and make sure it is not sucking antifreeze into the jar. after you get that worked out, let it run with a vacuum, watch for bubbles in the test fluid. if it turns yellow, well, you gots a problem, blown headgasket or a crack. if after 5-10 minutes it is still blue, you can be 90% sure that you don;t have a blown head gasket or a crack. ( there is always a chance something isn't working right with the test).

honestly, I don;t think this is your problem, you would either have had to installed a cracked head/block or really been an idiot to screw up a head gasket on a rebuild, but one never know, do one!

Saxman,
Most [good] service stations have these testers. You can purchase your own via NAPA for $47.49. Their P/N is: BK 7001006. Better yet, here's the direct link:
http://www.napaonline.com//MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=BK&PartNumber=7001006&Description=Leak+Detector+Kit+%2f+Engine+Block
Boomer

Thanks for the hydrocarbon tester build lesson, TMJ. I hope you are right about that NOT being the problem.

Of course, Yons could have put an old Chevy engine in there for all I know. He sold it as a new Vortec headed engine, and it turned out to be a regular LM1 type, so who the heck knows? He's proven that he knows even less about cars than I do. It's obvious that the carb and intake were used more than the 5 minutes he said the engine had on it.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I think you have a very tiny head gasket leak, enough to let some very hot gases into the coolant. The symptoms are exactly the same as the ones I have in my Suzuki Samurai. You might think this is a ridiculous comparison, but..they all have cylinder heads, and head gaskets. I've had this happen to me maybe 3 times in my life, and the clue is this..it only starts to get really hot after about 15-20 minutes, and is gradual. What happens is this, in my case. The hot gases get into the coolant, and super-heat them. The slight increase in pressure in the cooling system is allowed to escape through the rad cap in the form of ..gas... Therefore the water level barely drops, but it gets very hot. I am going to change my gasket next week, and I am sure it will cure it. Of course, you have 2 cylinder heads, whereas I have only one..but I still think this is a possibilty. My engine has perfect, and equal compression..I put my hand over the open radiator mouth, and nothing tries to force my hand away.I have no leaks, and a new water pump, belt and thermo. It still does it without the thermo too...no fanbelt slip, fitted an auxilliary electric fan...still gradually overheats..I bet mine is headgasket anyway!! Can't be anything else!! Nick

Well, she finally started heating up really fast, oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil..so I stripped her down today..guess which was the cylinder with a small leak into the coolant? Amazing how a little coolant getting into the cylinder will clean the piston and head to like new!!

Still think you have the same problem, possibly The previous owner had it when it first started to overheat, and I guess she has covered about 1000 mles since. It can take ages for the leak to get bigger, or give way completely! Hope you get it sorted soon!
And Happy New Year Saxman!!

Thanks for that, Fetish. I picked up some reinforced clear radiator hose to see if the air is getting in. The hose is intended for high pressure pumps, so I imagine it will hold up to 15psi of coolant. What do you guys think?

I hope to be able to put the hose on and test her after Pres. Ford's casket departs Andrews AFB tomorrow at noon. We have been reporting in to work at 0430 for the last few days - and tomorrow is the last day of it - then I can go back on vacation - and into the garage!

I'll let you know if I see air in the coolant. I sure hope not.

I also bought a piece of reinforced clear tubing for the heater line. It's just enough to route the heater line from the manifold to the block. Perhaps that is where my trapped air is hiding. Hmmm - maybe I should have just bought regular heater hose to re-route it until the heater goes back in...

Yes, the gasket was in pretty bad shape I wouldn't be surprised if it was the original!! You can usually see where the leak was, but it was a very small one.Anyway, I will let you know how it runs after I have put it all together again.Got to change the clutch and gearbox first
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 01-01-2007).]

I got the clear radiator tubing so I will give that a shot this weekend. It's reinforced, so I think it will handle the pressure just fine. It was made for high pressure pumps. I just need to get a connector so I can hook it to the hose that is already in there.

I'm also going to disconnect the heater hoses and just run a short hose from the intake down to the return on the block - just in case there is air in there causing trouble for me.

Happy New Year to all you guys supplying me with advice!

You may not want to leave that hose on after you get all fixed, some hoses dont like antifreze and will get mushy. Been there done that. Get the darn fixed allready so we can have another meet! Good luck.

Finished the head gasket replacement...perfect!!Drove it for 15 miles at 60 mph..stayed at recommended temperature all the time. With a thermostat back in, it warms up quickly, and stays constant.My problem solved..hope yours gets solved equally simply, and equally fast
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 01-15-2007).]

I have offered this for sale here on the forum, but no offers. If it stays longer I will eventually have time to get in the garage again.

I'll do my best to get out there next week and see what the clear hose shows me.

BTW -someone mentioned checking the flow inside the radiator to see if it is clogged. How can I see down in there? I imagine I have to drain some coolant for a good look?

very hard to do in a fiero. you will need to raise the nose until the rad cap is higher than the tstat top, drain some coolant, remove the cap and watch the flow. when blipped, you should see the return side drop slightly and the jets of water coming thru from the top core tubes, that is usually the best you will see. if the core were severly clogged, you would see the return side almost empty with weak flow thru the tubes.

wait, I forgot, you have an electric pump. blipping won't do anything, for the flow rate, but you can test it with the motor not running too...... with the tstat out you should see some flow thru there, I would guess at all core tubes as the pup is a singel speed full on type thing. with that arrangement, you could even see more, if you wanted to jury rig in a pail and rerout the return side hose ...... put that down and in a pail, and put the radiator out thru a hose down hose down into it, let that fill up enough that the hose to the back is near the bottom, and run it, that would leave the return side tank pretty much empty so you could see all the tubes.

quote Originally posted by topcat: Autozone will hire based on you knowing how to use a cash register, and that is about all that is required. I went to one once and asked for wheel studs. He did not know what they were, so I had to explain it to him. While I was trtying to explain what wheel stud was the manaer came out and helped me instead.

The Guys @ AutoZone are so helpful arent they?? And Yeah I have had the manager ask me what kind of a car I was in when I pulled up in my 85GT that was all modded out, when I told him it was a pontiac he thought it was the NEW Solstice and liked it, when he heard Fiero his jaw dropped and he asked if they brought it back for 2007.... lol and he was the manager... then I asked for a coolant tube to connect the Thermostat housing to the drivers side coolant tube and he said politely he has only heard of a fiero, never seen one and didnt think they had "specialty" parts for them... in that case he was right...

good luck to saxman sorry to hear about all of the problem here... I skipped through it but did you pressure test it? and compression test the cylinders to see of a possible leak...

--Chris

Just saw this - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/080304.html

I think someone suggested that the radiator may be too big - and this explains just why. I'll have to look into it.

What kind of temperature gauge are you running? Where is it wired up, etc?

I ran a mechanical one so that I really knew what the temp was. Once that is good, I'll hook up the electric one to see how close it is, but for now I'm jsut using the mechanical one.

I propped the hood up so air could clear the front compartment and there was no change in the temp situation. I ran her for 15 minutes and she was at 210 - then a few minutes more she was at 230. I pulled in the driveway and let her run while the temp went back down to 200ish. The fan on teh radiator covers it from top to bottom and really kicks off some warm air, so I have the feeling the rad is doing it's job.

I immediately went out for another ride and the temp popped back up to 230 after a few minutes. Like before, I noticed that if I kept the rpm's steady, the temp would very slowly rise, but if I pushed the rpm's, the temp would rise and stay wherever it rose to. The only way to get it back down was to pull over for a few minutes.

Anyway, I noticed a little water blowing out of the pass. side exhaust on initial startup - but none on the driver's side. Not much - just enough to sprinkle the floor.

I tried putting on the clear heater hose to look for air bubbles/foaming, but I could not get it to stretch over the joint piece. It looks like the clear piece is a bit too small.

I have the larger size clear radiator hose, so that is next on my list. Only problem is that I will need to replace the entire upper radiator hose to do this because the metal hose I have there will not bend out enough to let me splice in a piece of clear hose.

I also wonder if air might be getting trapped in that main rad hose where it is a bit higher than the intake manifold. Maybe the replacement hose there will tell me more...

So, nothing gained on the 60 degree day off work - other than a fun 40 minutes in the purple beast. Man, I wish I could keep her, but the agreement was: new Mach 1 = sell purple Fiero,

Maybe if I get her temp prob fixed, I can talk the wife into making it my "rainy/salty-road" car so the (1 of 512) Mach 1 can be pampered for a while. That way I can beat on the purple Fiero at the track instead of the Mach.

Right now, the first $5,000 still gets it!

If you let it sit idle with the fan on does it cool off or do you have to turn the car off and run the fan and water pump to pull the temp down?
Have you touched the timing at all?

It cools down to 200 with the car running after about 5 minutes. I still need to do the timing, but I have run it after adjusting the distributor in various positions with no luck. I bought a timing gun and the part to put on to actually see where it is, but putting it on is the problem.

Heres what I did, it got me close.
Pick a spark plug you can get at without going under the car. Now find TDC on it. Once you find TDC on it you can use a marker to mark a temp timing line on the ballancer and timing chain cover where you can see it from the top of the car. Then I used a vacuum gage and tweeked it.
Thats how I got mine to run.

If your timing is out of whack it could cause that, it could also be caused by the timing chain being installed wrong but try to find TDC first.
Does the car start pretty easy or does it take a lot of tries to start it?

Hmm - Yons would never have installed a timing chain wrong...NOT! What a pain to take off and check that!

I'll try your timing method, Jake. I guess I want to get the max vacuum possible?

The car does start VERY easy. No problems there.

Thanks, Man!

Do you have any pictures of the car head on? I am trying to envision
how that big Nova radiator fits and how much it sticks out under the
car. (Airflow type problem)

Also, how does the coolant flow into the radiator. My Fiero (which
appears stock) has the hot coolant coming into the radiator on the
drivers side at the top of the radiator. The cooled fluid returns from
the bottom of the radiator (pax side) to the water pump.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 02-23-2007).]

My SBC spits plenty of water out of the exhaust at startup. That is just condensation. That hose is not that tall. I had one as tall or taller and I had no problems. But when I filled I made sure water got all the way up there with the rear lifted. I ran it then checked again. If I had a bubble then it would overheat while idling.

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 02-23-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Hudini: Do you have any pictures of the car head on? I am trying to envision how that big Nova radiator fits and how much it sticks out under the car. (Airflow type problem) Also, how does the coolant flow into the radiator. My Fiero (which appears stock) has the hot coolant coming into the radiator on the drivers side at the top of the radiator. The cooled fluid returns from the bottom of the radiator (pax side) to the water pump.

I have a 72 Nova rad in my V8 car with a Proform 2000 CFM fan. Cools great- no issues at all. The radiator sticks down less than 2" farther than the stock one.

------------------
1986 SE 350 V8

quote Originally posted by tesmith66: I have a 72 Nova rad in my V8 car with a Proform 2000 CFM fan. Cools great- no issues at all. The radiator sticks down less than 2" farther than the stock one.

Did you need any special radiator cap? Mine lets coolant through when the rear end is raised.

You don't need a special one, you need a WORKING one, lol. Haven't you replaced that cap yet?

I have tried two different ones and both do the same thing.

I sure wish it were warmer outside so I can play - like your weather, Jake!