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What FuelPump For 3800SC? by lildevil
Started on: 06-24-2007 09:16 PM
Replies: 70
Last post by: darkhorizon on 03-21-2008 01:01 AM
goatnipples2002
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Report this Post08-22-2007 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageSend a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
Parts america or Advance auto lists the Turbo TA pump as part# E3270 and the Grand National Turbo pump part# E3211. Same engine different pump?????

Just got of the phone with the Airtex tech.
Max Output
E3270 80-90psi 50-60 gallon/hr
E3211 65-95psi 40 gallon/hr

So the TA pump is way better.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 08-27-2007).]

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post08-22-2007 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:

Parts america or Advance auto lists the Turbo TA pump as part# E3270 and the Grand National Turbo part# E3211. Same engine different pump?????

Just got of the phone with the Airtex tech.
Max Output
E3270 80-90psi 50-60 gallon/hr
E3211 65-95psi 40 gallon/hr

So the TA pump is way better.



That's aftermarket stuff, I'm using the part numbers from the Delphi site for OE parts and it shows the same part number for both, and that would make a lot of sense given both cars are using the same engine and turbo design. I don't want anything that will not equal or exceed original equipment, I have a pump from Advance in the car now; Mastercraft I believe it is and it's noisy.

Those numbers are tested ranges so you will not know for sure unless both pumps are tested at the same pressure. As I mentioned before, Delphi shows the same pump for both cars but they have specs listed for each at different pressures in the same manner that horsepower numbers for the Fiero are listed at different RPM given the impression one year model is more powerful than the other although the engines are the same.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 08-22-2007).]

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goatnipples2002
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Report this Post08-22-2007 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageSend a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
Airtex makes Master fuel pumps which is what the part#s are.
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$Rich$
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Report this Post08-23-2007 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for $Rich$Send a Private Message to $Rich$Direct Link to This Post
hey folks i just glanced thru this thread, my L67 fiero is having pump issues i beleive, it goes way lean at WOT
i the swap has about 4K miles on it and when the swap was done the pump is suposidly a grand dational one, i dont know what brand it is,
but im going to be replacing it and was thinking of the walbro 255??
where should i buy it and what else is needed for it to work in the fiero?
will it come with a plug that i can splice into the fiero wores if needed?
who has the best prices and what should i buy?

my mods are : cam, 3.0 pully ported heads, larger valves, ( i think the heads are stage 2 or 3 from intense,) still running stock injectors,
but i have a stage 2 intercooler thats a start for the mods

any help is appreaciated

------------------

AIM:Onefast2M8
86 GT SC 3800 Intercooled
02 Jetta 1.8t

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-23-2007 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
Get a walbro in to rule out that issue of the pump failing. You can check it with a fuel pressure gauge, if you can some how pipe it into the cab.
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Report this Post08-23-2007 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageSend a Private Message to lildevilDirect Link to This Post
I got the setup that LFiero67 describes earlier in this thread. www.racetronics.com . It was an easy plug and play install. But for your setup i'd look into bigger injectors also.

------------------
Fiero w/ 1998 Supercharged 3.8 V-6 Intercooled
Best ET: 12.20@ 114.90 mph (street tires)
11.74@115 mph (drag radials)

"NO Juice....Just BOOST!"

[This message has been edited by lildevil (edited 08-23-2007).]

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$Rich$
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Report this Post08-23-2007 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for $Rich$Send a Private Message to $Rich$Direct Link to This Post
ive been directed to this one
think i might get it ordered

http://www.fullthrottlespee...Status~0~Tp~~Bc~.htm


where are bighher injecotrs found?

------------------

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Report this Post08-24-2007 12:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by $Rich$:

hey folks i just glanced thru this thread, my L67 fiero is having pump issues i beleive, it goes way lean at WOT
i the swap has about 4K miles on it and when the swap was done the pump is suposidly a grand dational one, i dont know what brand it is,
but im going to be replacing it and was thinking of the walbro 255??
where should i buy it and what else is needed for it to work in the fiero?
will it come with a plug that i can splice into the fiero wores if needed?
who has the best prices and what should i buy?

my mods are : cam, 3.0 pully ported heads, larger valves, ( i think the heads are stage 2 or 3 from intense,) still running stock injectors,
but i have a stage 2 intercooler thats a start for the mods

any help is appreaciated



I dont think your problem is in the fuel pump but maybe the injectors or your tune. I would lean more torward the tune that the car is running. What do your LTFTs/O2s look like when running WOT. You need to scan the car to find out and maybe hit a dyno with a wideband to get a true reading.

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Report this Post08-24-2007 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for $Rich$Send a Private Message to $Rich$Direct Link to This Post
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Report this Post08-24-2007 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
That scan does not say much of anything.... The narrowband was reading LEANER THAN 14.7 for most the run, didnt know that was even possible. Knock was random, and didnt really seem to be a huge problem. You didnt have IPW's on there, so we have no clue what your injectors are doing. you didnt have LTFT's on so we cant make dumb guesses as to what is going on there. I would talk to Jcon about obd1 tuning, he seems to have that on lockdown right now.
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Report this Post08-24-2007 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for $Rich$Send a Private Message to $Rich$Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

That scan does not say much of anything.... The narrowband was reading LEANER THAN 14.7 for most the run, didnt know that was even possible. Knock was random, and didnt really seem to be a huge problem. You didnt have IPW's on there, so we have no clue what your injectors are doing. you didnt have LTFT's on so we cant make dumb guesses as to what is going on there. I would talk to Jcon about obd1 tuning, he seems to have that on lockdown right now.


I am going to check fuel pressure this weekend hopfully

------------------

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86 GT SC 3800 Intercooled
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Report this Post08-25-2007 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fsrowsellClick Here to visit fsrowsell's HomePageSend a Private Message to fsrowsellDirect Link to This Post
Good day, will this fuel pump be OK for an 86 SE with an 01 GP 3800 SC stock... no mods and is it a fear price? Thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Report this Post08-25-2007 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for $Rich$Send a Private Message to $Rich$Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fsrowsell:

Good day, will this fuel pump be OK for an 86 SE with an 01 GP 3800 SC stock... no mods and is it a fear price? Thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


that is a good price, but you need to take into account piece of mind knowing you put a quality product in your car
ive never heard of that brand, you figure, it would be worth your time and effort down the road to NOT to have to buy another pump and swap it out again, just because you try'd to save a few $$ and went with a no-name brand

------------------

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Report this Post08-26-2007 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageSend a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
For $75 you can get a TTA pump with a warranty.
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Report this Post08-26-2007 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fsrowsellClick Here to visit fsrowsell's HomePageSend a Private Message to fsrowsellDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys... I think I will go with the TTA Pump.
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Report this Post08-26-2007 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fsrowsellClick Here to visit fsrowsell's HomePageSend a Private Message to fsrowsellDirect Link to This Post

fsrowsell

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Thanks guys... I think I will go with the TTA Pump.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-26-2007 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
I have a TRE pump, works great and it is MUCH quieter than most walbros I have heard.
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Report this Post08-26-2007 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageSend a Private Message to lildevilDirect Link to This Post
where are you getting the Turbo Trans Am pump for 75 dollars? I got mine from GM and it was 120? I'll sell it with the screen for 80 bucks. Never used.

------------------
Fiero w/ 1998 Supercharged 3.8 V-6 Intercooled
Best ET: 12.20@ 114.90 mph (street tires)
11.74@115 mph (drag radials)

"NO Juice....Just BOOST!"

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goatnipples2002
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Report this Post08-27-2007 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageSend a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
Advance had them for like 75 when I bought mine.
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Report this Post08-27-2007 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
I still dont understand this pump debate

walbro/tre pump = proven to work, $70

turbo gm pump or vette pump = not proven to work, >$70

The answer here seems obvious....
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goatnipples2002
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Report this Post08-27-2007 01:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageSend a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
I coulda sworn Walbros cost more than $70.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 11-27-2007).]

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Report this Post08-29-2007 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for L.I. FierosSend a Private Message to L.I. FierosDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE - Final Results

I said I would post after fixing my fuel delivery problem with Car 1 from my previous post so here goes.

Removed Vette pump and installed Walbro 255LPH pump. Started car and fuel pressure was running at 80psi. Way too high. Took car for a ride and at WOT pressure would drop to a low of approximately 65psi. This is still too high, but at least I now knew that this pump is more than capable of meeting the demands of a 3800SC motor (Vette pump could only maintain 48-50psi at WOT). But wait, there's more! Why is the pressure so ridiculously high? I applied vacuum and positive pressure to the fuel pressure regulator and neither made any difference in fuel pressure (vacuum should decrease pressure and boost should increase fuel pressure). So, I pulled the rail out of the car and removed the fuel pressure regulator only to find a clogged return line (pump was basically "dead-heading"). Removed clog, blew out all lines, and reinstalled rail assembly. Pressure is now 43psi at idle and will increase to a maximum of 56-58psi at WOT. This is totally normal. Car now runs smooth and pulls harder than before all the way to redline. And, I know that the pump has plenty of capacity in reserve. One thing to note, replacing the pump didn't cure my breaking-up issues. That was resolved after swapping in the ZZP1.0 PCM. Either there was something wrong with the computer I received with my engine, or the CAM needs computer reprogramming. Replacing the fuel pump in my case was, however, necessary as the Vette pump was not adequate. This is only my experience with one Vette pump. Others have had success and I wish I had to as it would have saved me $110 plus the time to swap it out. But, now I know I'm safe. Oh yeah, and as far as noise. When the pump was "dead-heading" it was whisper quiet. Now that it is operating normal, I can hear the pump running. But, it's not that bad at all. 99% of the time I think I just zone it out due to other noises. I mean I don't even remember if I heard it running when I raced the car on the weekend.

Hope this helps out a little.

[This message has been edited by L.I. Fieros (edited 08-29-2007).]

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Report this Post08-29-2007 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

My walbro is perfectly silent...


The 255GPH high pressure version? That's the pump that I decided to use on my 3800SC. Figured that more reserve fuel pressure and capacity would be a good foundation for future modifications. I used the Vette EP376 Delco pump on my turbo 3.4L and it did keep up with all the fuel demands of that engine. Loyde at FastFieros claims that he's used this pump many times for 3800SC installs without problems and posts evidence to suggest that it is entirely adequate for the 3800SC. Having not tried the Vette pump on a 3800SC I cannot attest to it's value for that engine but the data on Loydes website seems convincing.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post08-29-2007 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


The 255GPH high pressure version? That's the pump that I decided to use on my 3800SC. Figured that more reserve fuel pressure and capacity would be a good foundation for future modifications. I used the Vette EP376 Delco pump on my turbo 3.4L and it did keep up with all the fuel demands of that engine. Loyde at FastFieros claims that he's used this pump many times for 3800SC installs without problems and posts evidence to suggest that it is entirely adequate for the 3800SC. Having not tried the Vette pump on a 3800SC I cannot attest to it's value for that engine but the data on Loydes website seems convincing.



Loyde also neglects to mention failures he has, I imagine it has somthing to do with trying to keep a reputation, when his reviews from most anyone that has dealt with him was bad.

The pump I like is the TRE pump, its cheap, simple to install, comes with everything, and made in china! (not kid friendly, use caution)
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Report this Post08-29-2007 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

vette pump = not proven to work, >$70

....


How can you say its not proven? I run the pump and have been for over a year in my modded 3800 car. I never go lean even at 6200 WOT shifts. So how have you proven that it doesnt work? Have any data sheets, dyno runs showing it runs lean, anything?

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Report this Post08-29-2007 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post

MstangsBware

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quote
Originally posted by L.I. Fieros:

UPDATE - Final Results

I said I would post after fixing my fuel delivery problem with Car 1 from my previous post so here goes.

Removed Vette pump and installed Walbro 255LPH pump. Started car and fuel pressure was running at 80psi. Way too high. Took car for a ride and at WOT pressure would drop to a low of approximately 65psi. This is still too high, but at least I now knew that this pump is more than capable of meeting the demands of a 3800SC motor (Vette pump could only maintain 48-50psi at WOT). But wait, there's more! Why is the pressure so ridiculously high? I applied vacuum and positive pressure to the fuel pressure regulator and neither made any difference in fuel pressure (vacuum should decrease pressure and boost should increase fuel pressure). So, I pulled the rail out of the car and removed the fuel pressure regulator only to find a clogged return line (pump was basically "dead-heading"). Removed clog, blew out all lines, and reinstalled rail assembly. Pressure is now 43psi at idle and will increase to a maximum of 56-58psi at WOT. This is totally normal. Car now runs smooth and pulls harder than before all the way to redline. And, I know that the pump has plenty of capacity in reserve. One thing to note, replacing the pump didn't cure my breaking-up issues. That was resolved after swapping in the ZZP1.0 PCM. Either there was something wrong with the computer I received with my engine, or the CAM needs computer reprogramming. Replacing the fuel pump in my case was, however, necessary as the Vette pump was not adequate. This is only my experience with one Vette pump. Others have had success and I wish I had to as it would have saved me $110 plus the time to swap it out. But, now I know I'm safe. Oh yeah, and as far as noise. When the pump was "dead-heading" it was whisper quiet. Now that it is operating normal, I can hear the pump running. But, it's not that bad at all. 99% of the time I think I just zone it out due to other noises. I mean I don't even remember if I heard it running when I raced the car on the weekend.

Hope this helps out a little.




Not calling you out or anything--But I dont see how anything can be taken from the results you got being the fuel system was not functioning correctly. To really get accurate results from both fuel pumps, you would need to install the other pump back in and see what it does.

On another note--You wanna sell that Vette pump cheap?
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Report this Post08-30-2007 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for L.I. FierosSend a Private Message to L.I. FierosDirect Link to This Post
I wouldn't take that as calling me out. It's a perfectly valid point. From a scientific data point of view I should start over and only change one variable. But there's no way I'm pulling the tank and doing that. Was the pump operating optimally under the clogged return line condition? Who knows? I'll just have to live with my data and take from it what I can as the final result is good. I would have loved to have been able to test it properly from the get go and post those results, but it turned out I was chasing multiple issues and I was up against a deadline to have the car at the track, which I made and had a blast, but that's a story for another thread.

As for the Vette pump, PM me with what you'd be looking to pay for it. It still has the GM strainer attached as I was able to remove it undamaged. Although I do still have a Fiero here with a stock 2.8 liter. Let me know.
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Report this Post08-30-2007 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
The vette pump has been proven to flow significantly less than walbro's AND gtp pumps...
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Report this Post08-30-2007 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

The vette pump has been proven to flow significantly less than walbro's AND gtp pumps...


Thats not what you stated above--You said:

vette pump = not proven to work, >$70

It does work and it has been proven to work in many of swaps out there. Are there better pumps out there, some say there are but everyone has there opinions.

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Report this Post03-20-2008 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OHNIKOSend a Private Message to OHNIKODirect Link to This Post
so would anyone recommend a fuel pump hotwire kit, or not needed unless you'relooking to make major hp?

some added interesting info here too:

http://www.zzperformance.co.../articles1.php?id=40
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Report this Post03-21-2008 01:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
Thats for a w-body, and no its not a HUGE deal in a fiero considering the wiring is much shorter than on the GTP's. Darthfiero has a rewire schematic around here somewhere, and its not hard to figure out with a diagram.

Lucky for us the stock wiring is very large also, its almost like a 12 gauge wire, compared to the 16 or whatever is on the w-body.
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