Ok, I just acquired a mint/restored 93K mile 86.5 GT 5-speed. Looks new, runs great.
...but I got an exhaust leak.
I took it to the dealer (I did this cuz the PO had taken the car to dealer for the past 3yrs - and he said they know the car).
After checking out the car, the dealer said there is indeed a slight leak coming from the front manifold. They suggest NOT TO FIX IT.
Why? I asked.
He said we are talking near $1000 in labor - and that is if they don't break any of the bolts. (the bolts are rusted on there). If they break some, he said, the work becomes more intense - as does the price. Hey - at least I know he is not trying to take my money.
He mentioned the leak isn't really that bad - and will not cause any damage - he suggested living with it.
What are your thoughts on this recommendation? And/Or what do you think I should do?
And is it true it will not hurt anything? I have read/heard both sides - some say air can get in and mess up the valve and/or throw off the oxygen sensor. Then again, I have read/heard some saying how is air going to get IN when its constantly letting hot air out?
I want to stress again - the car runs fine - no codes, perfect idle. A little louder than normal - I originally thought this was due to a new/smaller cat and new(aftermarket?) muffler. Now I know why.
All comments/suggestions are welcome!
Chris -------------------------------------- 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am #760 (1830 miles) 1983 Delorean DMC-12 1988 Chevrolet Corvette 35th Anniversary #1941/2050 1986 Toyota Supra MKII 1985 Kawasaki Eliminator ZL900 ( yeah - I'm stuck in the '80s )
It probably will not make a big difference. My 88GT has a leak on that side also and I have lived with it for three years. I hate the ticking sound it makes but been putting it off since I have been planing on doing a 4T60 install and would address it when I have the cradle dropped.
The leak can raise the temp in the compartment some but it's already hot so who knows.
If the leak was very close to the O2 it might throw the readings off since an O2 compares the outside air to the exhaust for it's readings. If it is getting exhaust gases on both sides that could effect it's response. The leak would have to be blowing toward the O2 for that to happen.
I would not worry at all that it would affect the valves.
DR
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 07-26-2007).]
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10:24 AM
Mike Murphy Member
Posts: 2251 From: Greencastle, Indiana 46135 Registered: Oct 2001
Over time it will get worse. Manifolds are something that about every Fiero Owner has experienced at one time or another. A lot depends on where the leak is and how bad it gets. Excessive heat in the engine compartment can damage things. I have seen a leaky manifold melt plug wires, destroy connectors and in my opinion is not something I would drive for any long distance without correcting. $1,000 is a little high in my opinion but you are probably talking $80 an hour on the dealers rate or more. Get another quote. The manifold could be cracked or just a bad gasket but untill it is removed you won't be able to see everything. The front manifold does get water on it from the rear decklid opening which probably helps to crack them over time. Weld it or buy a used one if not new. Fiero Store has them.
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10:35 AM
jetman Member
Posts: 7799 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
I've repaired three exhaust manifold gasket leaks on my Fiero's. Normally at first the leak is just a minor issue but as it progresses, it becomes dangerous as you as expelling hot gasses out into the engine bay which could start a fire. You can live with a minor leak but you should be planning on repairing it if you are keeping the car long term.
I wrote an article for my forum members about the replacement procedures here.
I took the engine out of the car to repair mine, was more than just a gasket leak though. A bolt was missing on the front manifold, on the side of the Y-Pipe, and the y-pipe had actually spread the manifold away from the block so it was actually bent. Plus the recall heat shield in that location was a pos and rotted away, guaranteeing It would never seal again with that in place.
My car was a project anyway, and I found it worth it to drop the engine. Gave me a good opportunity to put install studs, clean off the old gasket and heatshield junk, and get at the forward lugs that had rusted in. It was honestly easier to drop the engine than repairing that manifold would have been in the car.
------------------ www.FieroDomain.com Over 120 Fiero Links, Articles, Images, Diagnostics
"If any car is both the parade and the rain, it is the Fiero"
Ok, I just acquired a mint/restored 93K mile 86.5 GT 5-speed. Looks new, runs great.
...but I got an exhaust leak.
I took it to the dealer (I did this cuz the PO had taken the car to dealer for the past 3yrs - and he said they know the car).
After checking out the car, the dealer said there is indeed a slight leak coming from the front manifold. They suggest NOT TO FIX IT.
Why? I asked.
He said we are talking near $1000 in labor - and that is if they don't break any of the bolts. (the bolts are rusted on there). If they break some, he said, the work becomes more intense - as does the price. Hey - at least I know he is not trying to take my money.
He mentioned the leak isn't really that bad - and will not cause any damage - he suggested living with it.
What are your thoughts on this recommendation? And/Or what do you think I should do?
Chris
WOW! Same thing happened to me. I don't know how bad my leak is but it makes a good bit of noise. The local mechanic said $1100 unless something broke, (because its all rusty) then it would be more. When I heard that price I didn't want to pay it. I was sick of the noise it makes and I wanted more power so now I'm having a 3800sc put in.
------------------
05' 3800sc series II Now in progress courtesy of Dennis Lagrua
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02:04 PM
auto_cran28 Member
Posts: 64 From: Dallas, Texas Registered: Jun 2007
I just had the same problem fixed last week. I was living with that leak for two years, then I decided to get it fix because it started to annoy the hell out of me. If you've been quoted $1000, look somewhere else. Cause for that price, you could buy a set of stainless long tube headers and still have some left over.
When I got mine fixed I had three broken bolts that where rusted in. My manifold was cracked too. I was charged $100 to sandblast, weld, and resuface the manifold.The labor to remove the manifold and broken bolts was $300. The A/C Compressor and bracket had to be removed, but the lines did not need to be disconnected. The heads don't have to be removed to get to the bolts, but it will take awhile (my car was in the shop for three days). If worst comes to worse, than the heads will have to be remove to get to the bolts.
I hope this info will be helpful to you. Good luck!
[This message has been edited by blue87 (edited 07-27-2007).]
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12:50 PM
jetman Member
Posts: 7799 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
I did have to remove heads on my 87 GT. This following technique worked great for me. Try removing both heads, lower intake, and manifolds as an assembly with a cherry picker. It is so much easier to dissasemble when it is out in the open on your work bench. That being said, it is not always nesessary to remove the heads to extract snapped bolts. I've done manifold gaskets in a number of different ways. Some folks here have removed one dog bone bolt and the two rear cradle bolts, you can swing down the engine cradle for lots of extra room. In my case, I removed two front trans mount nuts, loosened two rear trans mount nuts, loosened two engine mount nuts all from underneath the car, removed dogbone bolt and used a ratchet strap from engine eye hook to trunk latch and gained about 6 extra inches to work with. Sooner or later you will have to start preparing for tackling this project or having it done by a mechanic. Don't assume that a mechanic knows all the answers, help him or yourself out by using the forum "search" function nears the top of the page, there's tons of info on most any subject in the archives. Good luck with the repairs!
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02:56 PM
PFF
System Bot
auto_cran28 Member
Posts: 64 From: Dallas, Texas Registered: Jun 2007
I have a front manifold leak on my car, and in a year time it melted through my new wires. I had the fix quoted at $300, but more if a bolt was broke. This is a local mechanic though, and he gives me good deals on stuff. He replaced my water pump for $150 including the price of the pump and belt. I would have replaced the pump myself, but in the instructions it mentioned that in some of the engines that it went to, you needed to use some sort of clamp to hold something in, or you could get antifreeze in the oil and mess up the engine. Sorry kinda getting off topic, but would I be smart to take the car to that guy and have him do it, or should I just do it on my own. I don't have a lift, so it will be a little more difficult to work on it. I would need to put it on jack stands. I'm pretty sure I have all the tools I'll need, as I have a low profile jack, a high rise jack, two big tool boxes full, an air compressor and everything. If I took it to the guy, I could have it fixed right now, where as my dad has some collector cars in the garage and in order to do it in there, I would have to wait til the snow was gone. I guess what I need to know is, Is it worth it to have someone else do it for $300? Also, I don't know if the mechanic would worry as much about breaking the bolts as i would doing it myself, because the mechanic would still be getting paid for it, where as I would be losing money and time. Please any response would be great, thanks.
You did not mention if you has tried to tighten the bolt at the leaking cylinder or if you know which bolt is corroded or if it is rusted.can you determine the exact cylinder that is leaking?? Are any bolts loose?? if you find the leaking cylinder try the bolts easily to see if they turn,,if you have led an exemplerary life with out sin,, the bolts may easily turn and tighten and stop the leak,,,how ever if you have led a life as mine, drinking, womanizing,gambling and wearing loose fitting shoes(3 rusted like weld ,bolts) you had better soak P B blaster around the rusted bolt and let soak ,, then try to turn bolt keeping wrench at perfect 90o angle if not prepared to remove manifold at this time do not apply full pressure,, do not snap bolt ,, extracting bolts from the rear is a girls pajama party & pillow fight,with only male in attendance YOU,,, ,compared to the Silvertip Grizzly encounter on a remote mountain trail, that a broken bolt on the front is. Try it easy first ,,if your mechanical skills are of the "I can pull the engine and rebuild level" try it hard.. but if you fear this job do not attemp.. this is advance skill level stuff
You did not mention if you has tried to tighten the bolt at the leaking cylinder or if you know which bolt is corroded or if it is rusted.can you determine the exact cylinder that is leaking?? Are any bolts loose?? if you find the leaking cylinder try the bolts easily to see if they turn,,if you have led an exemplerary life with out sin,, the bolts may easily turn and tighten and stop the leak,,,how ever if you have led a life as mine, drinking, womanizing,gambling and wearing loose fitting shoes(3 rusted like weld ,bolts) you had better soak P B blaster around the rusted bolt and let soak ,, then try to turn bolt keeping wrench at perfect 90o angle if not prepared to remove manifold at this time do not apply full pressure,, do not snap bolt ,, extracting bolts from the rear is a girls pajama party & pillow fight,with only male in attendance YOU,,, ,compared to the Silvertip Grizzly encounter on a remote mountain trail, that a broken bolt on the front is. Try it easy first ,,if your mechanical skills are of the "I can pull the engine and rebuild level" try it hard.. but if you fear this job do not attemp.. this is advance skill level stuff
Well, if that was a response to my post...I had the car at a mechanic once when it was running bad, and all it needed was an O2 sensor, but he replaced that for free after the $35 he charged to diagnose. When he changed that, he said something about it, and tried tightening the bolts, but they wouldn't tighten. Honestly, I don't know if it's cracked or not, but you can stick your hand between the firewall and engine and feel air. Also, when reving it up, you hear a whine, kinda like a turbo spooling up. He had mentioned unhooking the front mount and tipping the engine back to get to it, so it sounds like he knows what he's doing. He had worked at GM, Ford, and Chrysler at different points of his life years ago. I'm just wondering if I should tackle this job myself, or if $300 is worth it to have someone else do it. I'll try some PB on the bolts and see if I can get them to spin...The problem is that right now the car is my DD, and correct me if I'm wrong, but PB is flammable. Thanks for the help.
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07:51 AM
Lambo nut Member
Posts: 4442 From: Centralia,Missouri. USA Registered: Sep 2003
Daily driver ! use the mechanic, save the money from a few pay checks..I was kidding about the pajama party..,,I was not kidding about the Grizzly bear encounter,, The removal of a rusted broken bolt from the front head(closest to passenger cab) requires the highest skill level,, you will probably have to remove the head,, Even the most skilled,often have to take head to machine shop or mechanic ,this is a job you start on friday and hope you complete by monday morning.. the Y pipe bolts removal can delay this job if they are rusted(hmmm wonder how I know this) Sometime on the forum a job is made to sound not so difficult,,but often the person who post a repair project has many years experience.. the job may be the first time he perform this particular task,but many years experience as a motor head back him up..
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-12-2008).]
Daily driver ! use the mechanic, save the money from a few pay checks..I was kidding about the pajama party..,,I was not kidding about the Grizzly bear encounter,, The removal of a rusted broken bolt from the front head(closest to passenger cab) requires the highest skill level,, you will probably have to remove the head,, Even the most skilled,often have to take head to machine shop or mechanic ,this is a job you start on friday and hope you complete by monday morning.. the Y pipe bolts removal can delay this job if they are rusted(hmmm wonder how I know this) Sometime on the forum a job is made to sound not so difficult,,but often the person who post a repair project has many years experience.. the job may be the first time he perform this particular task,but many years experience as a motor head back him up..
Thank, much appreciated...looks like I'll just get some money outta the bank and have it done this weekend. Hopefully he doesn't run into any problems
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09:02 AM
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
More times than not, at least one exhaust header bolt will break off and thus you will be pulling the heads and spending lots since your not a machanic. Even if you were, its lot of work. I have to agree with them and say live with it, but find it and keep a close eye on it as over time it will get worse and can melt/burn some wiring and then you'll have yet another problem. If you want to stay with this hobby I would suggest you start reading up on auto repair and maybe even take a class or two. If you can't do much of the work yourself old cars can get really costly to keep running.
More times than not, at least one exhaust header bolt will break off and thus you will be pulling the heads and spending lots since your not a machanic. Even if you were, its lot of work. I have to agree with them and say live with it, but find it and keep a close eye on it as over time it will get worse and can melt/burn some wiring and then you'll have yet another problem. If you want to stay with this hobby I would suggest you start reading up on auto repair and maybe even take a class or two. If you can't do much of the work yourself old cars can get really costly to keep running.
yeah, I have found that out already. I do most of my own work, but if it's something that I'm worried I could mess up and turn a $200 repair into a $2000 repair, I normally let the mechanic do it. My plug wires have already started feeling the effect of the manifold leak. The car has had the leak for quite a few years, and I was told to leave it until it gets worse, but I think it's to that point. I don't feel like replacing wires every year. I don't know if your post was related to mine or the original person, just thought I would respond just in case.
