This is my second swap hope fully this one will go better than my last one on that note if anyone needs a n/a 3800 or 4t60e or anything to do that swap let me know. I found a 85 toronado you know what means I am going to try a swap useing a 350 chevy and a th 325-4L transmission to do this swap I know I will need a chevy to BOP buick olds pontiac bell housing adapter wich are practically free compared to fiero adapters. I do have one question though will I have to use a pre 86 350 (two peice rear main seal) or is there a readily avalible flexplate adapter?

[This message has been edited by Ace McCloud (edited 08-28-2007).]

Ok I just bought the parts car for my th325-4L

http://i233.photobucket.com.../root_command/85.jpg

and the engine an 84 chevy 350 (will of course need to be rebuilt)

http://i233.photobucket.com...t_command/engine.jpg

and late eightys early ninetys vortec heads

http://i233.photobucket.com...ot_command/heads.jpg

the next step will be to tear down the fiero and the toronado and to find the time.

[This message has been edited by Ace McCloud (edited 08-31-2007).]

Longitudinal V8 swaps are not easy to do. You must build a custom cradle, utilize special axles, fabricate a special oil pan, cut out the entire trunk and add all the routine steps for any swap. You lose the Fiero bolt pattern, and need special brakes among other things. Longitudinal swaps also tend to add quite a bit of weight as the TH-325 is a heavy trans. While this type of swap has been successfully done in the past, just be prepared for one big job.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

More longitudinal info

http://www.fieroaddiction.com/SBCLa.html

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-01-2007).]

I should have been a little more specific I am doing a reverse rotation longitudinal swap. Plus your not losing the fiero bolt pattern your gaining a more common F-body bolt pattern wich is two birds with one stone for this project. Also I cant find the link but the has been one revese rotation swap where the trunk was retained, it looked like the beat on the trunk and bent it back alot but the trunk was retained. As far as oil pan fabrication goes company all ready make an oil pan for 350 s-10 4x4 swaps that fits the bill or you can use the one from the olds small block. And you really dont need special brakes I do have the ones off of the toronado. Think less traditional swap and more picking up the back of the fiero and setting it on the tornado front end and welding it in place. Anything is easier than EFI

Boy...

I wish I was closer to you. I've always wanted to try a longitudinal swap. 1 thing though.... I think you'll have to stick with the "conversion" oil pan" or customize one. The Olds Small Block Oil Pan won't fit a SBC. (I've built 4 Olds SBC's and 8 Olds BBC's). I can't say that I've ever looked but I'd bet you would have to do quite a little bit of fabrication to the Olds Oil Pan for use on an SBC. In addition to the bolt pattern being different, the front portion for the timing cover is different as well.

However, what you can do (I did it on a Toro with a damaged oil pan many years back) is:

Use a Deep Chevy Oil pan or Custom / Moroso 8 quart oil pan and just bore a hole through it and weld in a steel pipe for the axle to pass through. Not a big job at all. It's essentially what Olds did to the oil pan on the FWD Toro's.

Be sure to post some pics.

In my case, since I'm an Olds "diehard". I'd love to do a nice "sane" 375HP Olds 350 in the Fiero. A bit heavy but a fun ride I'd bet..

The Th-425 is a pretty bulletproof trans but the Th-325 with O.D. can handle quite a bit of power as well and are a bit easier to find. I'd love to try it.

PS. Be sure to check your head castings as well. I'm about 95% positive that you'll need the # 906 or 062 caasting heads for that block. Check the thirdgen site to be sure. The 062's and 906's can be found from 96-99 and the other (I think L-31 style heads) can be found up to 2002. You'll also need a Vortec intake as well.

------------------
I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 09-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Ace McCloud:I should have been a little more specific I am doing a reverse rotation longitudinal swap.

If you're using a TH325, I cannot comment because I have no experience with those. I do know that if you flip the differential for reverse rotation on a TH425 (I have one), the axle flanges on the differential will be sitting a good deal higher, and then the oil pan does become an issue.

I am shure the oil pan is nothin a little cuttin and weldin cant fix. and when I said I was going to use the Olds oil pan I though I might be able to cut the flange off of the top of the olds oil pan and one off of a chevy and weld cevy flange on the olds pan. But these are the kind of things I do round here we call it Redneck Engineering. Might work might not who cares rods are cheap

That will be an interesting approacah to the oilpan mod, I've often wondered about using the ones your working with.

In my case, once the engine & trans were mated, and the differential bolted on, it was pretty straightforward to mark the oilpan where a "tunnel " was required, to pass-thru the intermediate axle shaft. Carefull cutting out and welding back in of a tunnel followed.

Two things if you elect to take this aproach;

- weld the tunnel, but then go back and braze it. Then check for pinholes with warm mineral spirits.
- The LT1 presents an almost interference with the tunnel, due to placement of either the oil splashpan bolts, or maybe a main bearing set of bolts, but it is doable. I suspect the every engine type is going to have minor differences in location of interferences and the tunnel.

Have Fun.

So what are your plans regarding the reverse setup?

David Breeze


------------------

Pantera Rebody Kits

[This message has been edited by opm2000 (edited 09-02-2007).]

plans hahahahahahahahaha I kindof just figure it out as I get there with only a general idea of what I might be facing but nothing I do could ever be called well planned. I got all the mecanical know how I just never used to have the money for fiero stuff.

Now for the update today I got alot of the easy stuff removed from the fiero linkage, fuel lines, vacum lines, battery, air box, harness, and dog bone. (nothing picture worthy who wants to see a dirty woreout old duke anyway)

next week my daily driver should be done so I will have more time to invest in the project.

[This message has been edited by Ace McCloud (edited 09-03-2007).]

I built my longitudal v8 fiero with a 68 corvette one piece 327. The flex plate bolt holes where about a half hole off. Against my better judgement i ground the bolt holes to fit. I keep them as even as possble. I ran this set to 6800 rpm many times with out problems. I Until the valve dropped and trashed my expensive engine. I now run a 355 97 vortech truck engine amasingly the flex plate bolt holes are exactly the right locations.

First I would never spend $1000 dollars for someone to work on my trans. I am just not that kind of person. Second the reson I went with the overdrive is because I want to drive this car (on occasion) I doubt I do alot of quater mile passes in it. I only paid $200 for the whole toro so if my trans needs work I imagine I will be doing that work myself. People are so scared of automatics they are not that difficult to rebuild really they are wwwwaaaaaayyyyyyyyy easyier tha EFI dont even get me started on that jigsaw puzzle.

My car haha its a 85 coupe you would never expect it to have a V8 or even run for that matter. I have allways liked the sleeper idea

Fuel injection is cake.

Getting an axle and a main bearing cap to occupy the same space at the same time... that's a trick.

Got a camera? Take pics of the transmission as you're putting it together... I'm curious about whether or not the chain drive could be adapted to use a stick.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-04-2007).]

I was wondering what everbody thought about this adapter for my swap

http://store.summitracing.c...D230000&autoview=sku

Note to Will "Fuel injection is cake."
If so wanna help with my other fiero? everythings done but the wires.

and "Got a camera? Take pics of the transmission as you're putting it together... I'm curious about whether or not the chain drive could be adapted to use a stick."

I am only going to rebuild the th325-4l if I need to. If what you need to see is "easy" to get to I might take it apart partially.

I was primarily into Big Block Olds and BBC's so I'm familiar with the the B.O.P. and Dual Bolt Pattern Transmissions. That adapter should work fine for you and the nice thing is; They are not that thick. Less than 1/2" if that's the same one that I've used in the past. That might make it (hopefully) easier to modify the flexplate / converter distance ( if you needed) .

------------------
I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

Can the shift of the TH325-L be improved with a shift kit?
Has anyone tried to mate a 4.6 Northstar to this transmission? Or does the oil pan interference prevent this?
How does the weight of the TH325-L compare to the Cadillac 4T80e found in the 4.6 Deville or STS?

------------------
Daviero - 88 N* GT

Daviero - Almost any V8 mated to a TH325 or TH425 transaxle that's had the differential flipped for reverse rotation will require an oil pan modification to clear the axle shaft. If you're a decent welder, or have access to someone who is, an oil pan mod is not too difficult. The bigger question that needs answered is even if the pan can be modified, will the axle shaft clear the bottom of the block itself and/or the crankshaft? And yes, A Northstar's oil pan will need to be modified to work.

AGH PICTURES!!!!!

quote Originally posted by Mr.PBody: AGH PICTURES!!!!!

Care to elaborate?

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT
OK this is the truth ,THE oil pan is the least of ur problems...

There r 2 ways to run this setup 1) standard, and 2) reversed way

No idea on standard,but i can speak for reversed.

When u go reverse,u can do 2 things,1) can make a adaptor plate for the diff and turn it 180' or u can make a set of gears at the back and not use the chain like cardealer did...

Believe it or not when u flip the diff the centre line of the axles jump upwards of 3 to 4 inchs.Now here is the catch.....


I have try'd using all kinds of different engines to fit and not 1 has worked

1) BMW 5.0L V12

2) Nissan VG30ET and VG30DETT

3)Ford 5.0 V8

4) Fiero 2.8

The Biggest problem is that the axle will line up straight in to the side of the block,,or run into a main bearing cap or connects dead nuts into the crankshaft balance weights,,sure u think,hell i will just make the adaptor thick and then u can run into the other problems...

Now i am really surprized not 1 of u guys has said this,,there is a way...for the life of me i cant remember who said it but it has stuck with me ever since it was said..and it is real easy to do...
but i will let u guys sweat it out for a bit..

You can do the upside down diff, or you can do the gears, or you can do what PBJ did, you can rotate the transmission 10-15 degrees so that the tranny fluid actually pools getter and the pick up point, and the rotate the differential that 10-15 degrees less when you flip it over, adding that whole height to work with. I am not certain but pbj was doing an ls4 and I don't think he was going to have to cut the oil pan... or he never got that far.

Chris

I was thinking about rotating the trans I am shure I can figure it out After All I did build this......


81 mazda front 51 Oliver combine front end Rear (The drive shafts turned oppistite ways so it does go forward.)










Custom leaf spring front end.


My spare combine front end for the rear

What do you guys think of this for my 350 swap?


one qestion can you run the carb before the intercooler?

do you have to worry about knock sensor or computer controlled crap on 80 trans am turbos?

quote Originally posted by Ace McCloud: one qestion can you run the carb before the intercooler?

Absolutely not. Unless you want your car to explode when it backfires. (imagine all that pipe & intercoller full of compressed air & gas... ;-)
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

Does a pressurized carb hat work? one like this...



Can you run a intercooler before a carb?

quote Originally posted by Ace McCloud: Does a pressurized carb hat work? one like this... Can you run a intercooler before a carb?

An intercooler must be run after the turbo. It is the turbo that heats the air, the intercooler then cools it. You can blow through some carbs with a bonnet but many are not air tight and will leak at the seals. I believe only most Holleys can be used in blow through applications and you'll need solid plastic (not hollow brass ) carb floats The hollow floats will collapse under pressure. Sounds like you'll need to bring the air to the turbo, then to the intercooler and finally to the carb. This sounds like what I was doing when I was a young guy and carbs were still used.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Another question before I get started what kind of solvents do shops use in dip tanks and where can I buy it.

quote Originally posted by opm2000:

Side question: You have "Pantera re-body kits" in your signature. Could you elaborate on that?

Sure can, but to whet the appetite of those considering alternative methods of longitudinal installation:







David Breeze

------------------

Pantera Rebody Kits

Eh David,,i know the THM series is old and outdated,but the word from the street and kitcars ,the new auto trans of choice is


http://www.kitcarsforum.com...ed-3800-t5183.0.html


and can u email me more info on ur set-up

quote Originally posted by opm2000: ...to whet the appetite of those considering alternative methods of longitudinal installation:

Is that a V-drive (reversing gears and providing an offset u-joint facing the engine and allowing the use of a driveshaft and conventional rear diff). I just need to come over some day to introduce myself and check this thing out in person.

Now if only there was a T56 version that could be used in a fiero chassis with some mods.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-10-2007).]

Well, it's a small block chevy and a 400 trans, mounted reversed, obviously. The drive on the end is more or less a geared transfer case, which takes the output from the trans, and turns it around, just as you suspected, and a driveshaft goes back to a complete Corvette IRS. BTW, the entire front end of that chassis is also Corvette.

Pretty imaginative, eh? It's not mine, although I did consult with the Dutch gentleman who built it, mostly about requirements of the chassis, and how to adapt the Corvette parts. The drivetrain concept was his.

BTW, fieroguru, come by any weekend, I'm usually there.

David Breeze

------------------

Pantera Rebody Kits

quote Originally posted by opm2000:Sure can, but to whet the appetite of those considering alternative methods of longitudinal installation: David Breeze

Reminds me of a Lamborghini V12. Gearbox is mounted to the front of the block with an internal shaft going back to the differential mounted at the aft end of the block ... block, trannie & diff all in one unit.

I just thought as far as pressurizing a carb couldnt someone weld some aluminum pipe aroud the top of the carb and hook EFI intake pipe to that? I think that just might work

quote Originally posted by Ace McCloud: I just thought as far as pressurizing a carb couldnt someone weld some aluminum pipe aroud the top of the carb and hook EFI intake pipe to that? I think that just might work

WTF IS EFI INTAKE PIPE????

and why not just seal the whole carb in a box and then alot of problems r solved,,,,,,look up a company called Gale Banks,they were the MASTERS of turbo'ng carbs,,,wtf wait a min...........
http://www.galebanks.com/dialog.cfm


read read read...

EFI intake pipe is just what I called it, it is this stuff, most EFI intake systems are made out of it. Just simple aluminum pipe I assume.

http://i233.photobucket.com...mmand/SR_BL93RX7.jpg

Sorry about the photo bucket I am in Ubuntu (Linux) at the moment and PIP dosent work.

[This message has been edited by Ace McCloud (edited 09-15-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Ace McCloud: I just thought as far as pressurizing a carb couldnt someone weld some aluminum pipe aroud the top of the carb and hook EFI intake pipe to that? I think that just might work

The things you run into when pressurizing a carb is leakage & lack of fuel pressure. If you seal the carb, you can run a pressure line to a mechanical fuel pump (inlet side) to increase the pressure so that the turbo does not out power the fuel pump. In other words, if the pump is pushing 5 psi, once the turbo gets to that boost it will overpower the fuel pump & stop the flow of gas.
Building a box around the entire carb *is* the best way to overcome the "sealing the carb" problem. Also, a Predator is a good carb to pressurize on top as it has less places to worry about sealing.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Hey Leroy, what'cha doin' dragging that chain across the floor?
Leroy: "Ever tried *pushing* a chain?"

Bump till I get a day off PS figured out how to mount trans so that the axle clears the engine its a strech but it might just work

85 GT daily driver (warped head) is consuming all my time right now but I will get around to it. (I think)