Has anyone turboed a regular 3800 series II engine. As much as I would like the supercharged version they are harder to find and more expensive....I was thinking of slapping a turbo on a slightly rebuild regular series II. I found one for around 300...and figure I can rebuild it.
Very commonly done, and will produce just as much power as the supercharged counterpart. The only difference is the compression ratio, and you just need to keep that in mind when setting boost levels.
Due to the weaker and smaller pistons and rods, you will need to be a bit more conservative when tuning.
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11:25 PM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
About how much boost can I run....I mean the stock hp is 200hp, and so with turbo make around 240hp? That does not seem worth the work. Is the engine that limited, I mean in comparison to the SC version with beefed up internals and charger.
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11:34 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
So if a get a stock, used, 3800 series two and clean it up and slap a turbo on it can I get more than 250hp, close maybe to 300hp? Or, do I have to get into lowering compression. I hear the 3800s have a strong bottom end.
Why not just yank the rods and pistons and replace them with the SC'd rods and pistons. They run the same block same crank. Then you can throw in some performance bearings.
I was going to do a turboed 3800 before I found my LS4 setup for cheap. I looked into the kits that vendors sell but none of them would work with the Fiero unless you reworked the cross over. The kits out there put the turbo into or very close to the firewall when mounted in the Fiero. I still think I wanna do a stock 3800 Turbo car and build my own cross over from the stock cross over if possible.
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03:33 PM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
Has anyone turboed a regular 3800 series II engine. As much as I would like the supercharged version they are harder to find and more expensive....I was thinking of slapping a turbo on a slightly rebuild regular series II. I found one for around 300...and figure I can rebuild it.
i would find a junkyard series 2 3800 that the supercharger has been freshly pulled off of.. i see them at the junkyard all the time.. MOST people dont know that the engien itself has much stronger internals..just make sure it wasnt rained in.. sometimes those guys pull the supercharger then they leave the hood wide open and rain gets in the engine...
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04:19 PM
Dec 3rd, 2007
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
Hey, I never thought of that....3800 II SC minus the supercharger....get those beefed up pistons and block. Okay, I will have to hunt one of these down. Try craigs list and then hunt the local yards.
I don't know that you can mount a turbo on a 3800 the lower intake is designed for a a supercharger to be bolted onto it not a turbo so if you tried to bolt a turbo onto the lower intake manifold it wouldn't fit because turbos are menat to be bolted onto exhaust pipes so there is no provision for a turbo on the exhaust pipes and it probably wouldn't work anyways.
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04:02 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I don't know that you can mount a turbo on a 3800 the lower intake is designed for a a supercharger to be bolted onto it not a turbo so if you tried to bolt a turbo onto the lower intake manifold it wouldn't fit because turbos are menat to be bolted onto exhaust pipes so there is no provision for a turbo on the exhaust pipes and it probably wouldn't work anyways.
I think he means to say that some fab work will be needed to make a manifold that replaces the part of the intake system that got removed with the supercharger. It may be possible to retrofit a normally aspirated manifold onto the block if the head ports and injector hardware are interchangeable.
JazzMan
[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-06-2007).]
You can make yourself a good air-to-air setup for $350 no problemo
I don't think he was comparing turbo 3800 to stock sc3800
on a fiero ? please explain
------------------
87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6 Bully Stage 2 clutch Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection 50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump LM1 wideband on custom manifolds and 3" stainless exhaust system T31/T04B S4 turbo with a Super T61 in the box S10 caliper conversion. Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure. Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
I guess to clarify my intention....I am looking for an alternative to the 3800sc which is hard to find and rather expensive. The other piece is that I do care much for a supercharger, like the turbo better. The 3800 series II are more plentiful. I have a 3.1 turbo and it works okay but the prospect of 300hp, with all that torque would be awesome. Just have to figure out how to do it.
Good to see Jazzman is onboard. (Yes, I am still TRYING to paint my scoops.)
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08:18 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Well, you CAN go with a NA block, but a SC BLOCK would be much better to start with, no matter what you end up doing.
Some hits I found on car-part.com
1999 Engine Buick Regal BURNT 999,999 C 7E9341 $Call Novak Auto Parts Inc. USA-PA(New-Brighton) E-mail 1-800-452-4343
1997 Engine Buick Riviera LESS SUPERCHARGER 87 MILES A J7564 $800 Donawitz Auto Parts USA-PA(New-Brighton) E-mail 1-800-248-1032
1998 Engine Buick Regal 3.8,70K,started eric 050221 $450 A. Malinish USA-PA(Ligonier) E-mail 1-866-238-4080
999 Engine Buick Regal ,TOP FIRE 040253 $Call A. Malinish USA-PA(Ligonier) E-mail 1-866-238-4080
2000 Engine Pontiac Grand Prix 8-99 GTP 3.8 RUNS GREAT PRICED -321 97,000 2A1061 $450 Connellsville Auto Salvage USA-PA(Connellsville) E-mail 1-877-846-0246 39
998 Engine Buick Riviera PARTS 80,000 A G7752U $Call New Castle Auto Wrecking, Inc. USA-PA(New-Castle) E-mail 1-800-245-2226
Now remember that most all of these places are just listing random prices, and can be worked on with a bit of haggleing. Just about every one of them are for less than $500. I only found one L36 CHEAPER than the L67 motors I found in your area, and it was still $400 for a 98 with 110k on it. Junkyards make almost no distinction between NA motors and SC ones, so I dont know where you are getting these numbers from.
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08:46 PM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
Kevin is huge into turboing Grand Prix's, and is now working on kits for the Hemi's. I don't think he's done a Fiero yet, but I'm sure he is up to the challenge. His rental lookalike Turbo 3800 Series II GP GT runs like a bat out of hell.
Kevin used to do some of the tuning for a local Fiero shop that performed many engine transplants and other service, but from what I understand has now gone under for reasons unknown to me.
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10:03 PM
Dec 5th, 2007
fierodeletre Member
Posts: 834 From: Behind Animal's Drum Set. Registered: Oct 2006
You could plumb the intercooler lines up through the decklid under the spoiler, like the prototype did. That would be cool.
------------------ 1984 Fiero SE, White, first love, sold... 1986 Fiero SE 2M6, gold, sold... sniff... 1988 Fiero 2M4, the Fox 1987 Fiero GT, Blue, 3.4/4T60 Still looking for that perfect CJB 88 GT...
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03:02 AM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
What search tools are you using to find these places? I never have any luck here in Pittsburgh. I actually have a junk yard, a small one here, but they are crazy with there prices. (Wanted to sale me an old lebron turbo, just the turbo, for over $300)
Wow, I am confused since the idea of a 3800sc would be simpler, but I like the flexibility of a turbo. After playing with a centrigugal charger and now my turbo 3.1, the turbo is much better. There is little to no lag and you have the flexibility of controlling boost levels.
Plus I wonder with mileage that high on those engines if the SC is not worn or close to be worn out. Dont the rotors wear away? And, how would I know when buying it?
Why not drive a couple hours to a different yard or make a day of it and head closer to motor city. Use the car-parts.com site and see if you can find something cheaper, but close.
The rotors don't wear away just the coating...get them resprayed. In an abused yet well maintained vehicle they still can go 300,000. Thought you know the 3800 series 2 & 3 are the best motors GM ever came out with.
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11:50 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
The most I have seen is just shy of 430 hp and 430 lb/ft on a stock 3800 turbocharged and hit with a nitrous shot while on the dyno. The turbo alone made well over 300 hp and torque at the wheels in a stock Grand Prix, I have the video I just don't recall the site that I downloaded it from. There is also a link I recall having that demonstrated a turbo kits performance on a stock 3800 SC in place of the blower that held up pretty well also putting down 400hp at the wheels.
I've seen some crazy late 4th gen birds embarassing stock TAs with turbo 3800 setups. No NO2. Firebirds are not lightweight cars either.
------------------ 1984 Fiero SE, White, first love, sold... 1986 Fiero SE 2M6, gold, sold... sniff... 1988 Fiero 2M4, the Fox 1987 Fiero GT, Blue, 3.4/4T60 Still looking for that perfect CJB 88 GT...
Kevin is huge into turboing Grand Prix's, and is now working on kits for the Hemi's. I don't think he's done a Fiero yet, but I'm sure he is up to the challenge. His rental lookalike Turbo 3800 Series II GP GT runs like a bat out of hell.
Kevin used to do some of the tuning for a local Fiero shop that performed many engine transplants and other service, but from what I understand has now gone under for reasons unknown to me.
You must be taking about me....
------------------ Street Legal Tuning.
Specializing in Fiero performance: 3800 swaps, custom Aluminum flywheels, Brakes, Engine's, Aftermarket Bolt on performance parts, used Fiero parts,
e-mail: joetrentadue@hotmail.com
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08:21 PM
May 1st, 2008
FunnyWheels Member
Posts: 17 From: Oldsmar, Florida USA Registered: Jun 2005
I am in the process of adding a turbo to my 3800 NA, 5-speed. I have added larger injectors, larger exhaust etc. The turbo is a Garrett from a Volvo 740 A/R .42.
I am after low end torque and a slight HP increase. I plan to run up to 10 pounds boost (starting at 7 pounds). The engine is a Series II out of a 99 Buick. It had 96 miles on it when GM tore down the Buick for QC. I have about 2,000 miles on it now and have the desire to add some zip with a turbo.
Is there anyone here that can program my computer map for me?
Is there anything else I need to do with my set up?
My build thread is at the kitcar forum, technical discussion. I go by FunnyWheels.
Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer.
Regards,
Dave Newman, Tampa
------------------ FunnyWheels
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08:55 PM
wftb Member
Posts: 3692 From: kincardine,ontario,canada Registered: Jun 2005
you make it sound like the L36 (3.8 na motor) is weak. It is not. Matt ran 9s on a stock n/a bottom end. My friend was running low 11s on his m112 s/c grand prix with a stock n/a bottom end. Another friend of mine has a n/a monte that now has a intercooled/turbo/cam set up has run for several years like that.
that block is considered an upgrade from the lower compression/ heavier rotating assembly in the L67 (3.8 s/c).
------------------ Thinking about dropping the L67 from my gp into a Fiero. 12.466 @ 114.15 INTENSE S1X/ZZP IC/TOG Headers
so you dont have your shop anymore Joe ? thats a disapointment .
No I don't. In the last 4 years I had two people working for me that really drove me financaly down to the ground. I lost a lot of customers with thier roude aditudes, pissing off people and worse of all stealing my identaty. Lets put it this way, I can't trust anyone anymore. But on a good note I still do work on the fiero's and it may not be my place, where I work they don't mind me working on old clients vehicles... If you or anyone else needs to get intouch with me you can do it via email teamracetech@hotmail.com or phone 416-991-5620...
Joe
------------------ Street Legal Tuning.
Specializing in Fiero performance: 3800 swaps, custom Aluminum flywheels, Brakes, Engine's, Aftermarket Bolt on performance parts, used Fiero parts,
Work e-mail: teamracetech@hotmail.com MSN: teamracetech@hotmail.com
so, the turbo setups. they arent using the plastic intake are they? and if not where do they find replacements?
On the many turbo kits that i have done on the 3800 I use the stock intake plastic plenum. I and Kevin from Cartuning have pumped 18 psi into a couple of cars, with all stock bottom ends, even still on an all stock engine.
Joe
------------------ Street Legal Tuning.
Specializing in Fiero performance: 3800 swaps, custom Aluminum flywheels, Brakes, Engine's, Aftermarket Bolt on performance parts, used Fiero parts,
Work e-mail: teamracetech@hotmail.com MSN: teamracetech@hotmail.com
