What is GM 1052080?
Do I need such a sealant when assembling the heads ?

Can I replace it with something else ?

[This message has been edited by kjelle69 (edited 03-09-2008).]

I just use high temp ATV with head bolts. Never had a problem.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: I just use high temp ATV with head bolts. Never had a problem.

Is that like RTV?

I can tell you what NOT to use. Don't use the standard thread sealant (the pastey stuff in a tube) that they sell at the auto parts stores. I used that on my 2.8 V6, and now there is coolant leaking past my head bolts.

I found some products that are supposed to work, anyone with experience on those ?

https://www.hanessupply.com...catid=121&prodid=945

http://www.hrpworld.com/ind..._2073&action=product

http://www.permatex.ru/pc/87.htm

http://www.gmpartsdirect.co...D=203&CATID=196.html


Seems that the keywords here are Teflon and rather High temperature withstanding.

Which one to choose ? Loctite har a good rep. Maybe I'll try to find that one.

The Permatex sealant is what I used... and didn't work.

used the permatex thread sealant, I can get the number if necessary. hard setting. no leaks on the 2.8 after 2 years. just tried to "do it the right way". in the future i'll just do what I always did, a little in the head threads with a stick and a light coat on the bolt, used the permatex ultrablue rtv. never had any issues, all dry on subsequent teardowns. (if you push motors like I do, after 80k you usually have to do some touch up work, like replace the sheared crank, etc.. )

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 03-09-2008).]

If you can get a product number, that would be appreciated. The stuff I used (which appears to be the same product in kjelle69's link above) is a white paste that doesn't harden. At least, it doesn't appear to harden. Because after I found the source of the leak (about a week or so), I pulled out a couple head bolts to check them and the stuff was still gummy.

How can it start to leak there ? There is head gastket all the way around the circumference of the bolt ? The bolt does not go through any coolant channel as far as I could see ?

This is what I use and recommend : (as well as most engine builders)
http://www.permatex.com/pro...one_Gasket_Maker.htm

It works great for the head bolts or studs, the intake bolts, as well as the front and rear edges of the lower intake manifold. It's the same stuff you get in a small tube when you buy the Fel-Pro intake gasket set for the 60* V-6's.


The reason you need to seal it is because some of the bolts go into the water jacket of the block. If you do not properly seal the threads you will get leaks. The standard thread sealer sold by Permatex does not work very well. If you order the GM part it will be the "Ultra Blue" RTV. There are 4 versions Ultra black, Ultra blue, Ultra red, and Ultra copper. The black has max oil resistance, Blue is the multipurpose, red has a standard high-temp, and the ultra copper has copper particals in it for use on exhaust parts like the exhaust manifold and the O2 sensor. I use the black because of it's oil resistance. Motor oil can brakdown some RTV's over time.

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[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-10-2008).]

I have the Fel Pro gasket set, and actually two tubes of the black "gasket maker".

But, as I understand it seems important that there is PTFE present in the sealant supposed to go on the head bolts ?

Also, how does different types of sealant affect the specified torque that the head bolts are supposed to have? A lubricating sealant should increase the torque to get the right pressure or is it a neglectable difference ?

I found another product that I can get rather quickly as my friend has a tube : http://www.permabond.co.uk/...nts/A1044_TDS_UK.pdf

[This message has been edited by kjelle69 (edited 03-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: This is what I use and recommend : (as well as most engine builders) http://www.permatex.com/pro...one_Gasket_Maker.htm

Thank you! I just happen to have a tube of that stuff. I'll try it out.

Be sure to clean the threads on both the bolts and in the block, it's an odd 11mm thread so it may be difficult to find the correct tap to clean the block threads. I run a tap down the block threads and wirebrush the bolt threads, then clean both with spray brake cleaner that doesn't leave any residue. Any oil or coolant contamination on the threads will increase the chances of the sealer failing.

I use a non-hardening teflon paste in a tube from GM, sorry I don't have the number on it at the moment.

JazzMan

Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant is equivalent to GM 1052080

Permatex part numbers:

59201 - 1 liter bottle
59235 - 50 ml. tube
59225 - 250 ml. tube

TYPICAL APPLICATIONS
• Head bolts into through holes
• Oil PSI sending units/sensors
• Oil and coolant lines
• Fuel fittings
• Rear axle fill plug
• Brake and power steering fittings

quote Originally posted by kjelle69: I have the Fel Pro gasket set, and actually two tubes of the black "gasket maker". But, as I understand it seems important that there is PTFE present in the sealant supposed to go on the head bolts ? Also, how does different types of sealant affect the specified torque that the head bolts are supposed to have? A lubricating sealant should increase the torque to get the right pressure or is it a neglectable difference ? I found another product that I can get rather quickly as my friend has a tube : http://www.permabond.co.uk/...nts/A1044_TDS_UK.pdf

The PTFE is so that the threads don't gall up. If you clean the threads of the bolt and block you should not have any problems.
As for torquing the head bolts, You should do it while the sealant is wet. If you do it after it has cured, It can cause issues. I used the Ultra Black on many engines including the two 3.4L engines and the 3800SC that were built within the last 4 years. All three engines are running fine with no leaks or issues.

yes - the PTFE - or - basicly - Liquid Teflon Tape.
I would assume RTV would work
when I was still a newb - I actually went to the dealership, and bought a tube of the GM Sealant # 1052080.
they sold it to me, and I have just about used it all up now - 4 builds later. is wasnt outragously expensive - but I expect there is a Permtex equivalent.

The only Loctite product I seem to find here i n Sweden is the 572: http://65.213.72.112/tds5/docs/572-EN.pdf

It seems eqvivalent to 592 except for the temperature deterioration. 592 : 400 ºF whereas the 572 only handles 300ºF

So I am basically standing in a position to choose from the FelPro included black gasket maker or the 572.

Does the gasket maker somehow change the specified torque reading? Should I also fill the bolt hole, not only the threads?

[This message has been edited by kjelle69 (edited 03-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by kjelle69: Does the gasket maker somehow change the specified torque reading? Should I also fill the bolt hole, not only the threads?

As long as you torque it while it is uncured/wet you will be fine.
I just put a thin coating on the threads. Kind of fill in the threads. As the bolt screws in it will form a bead around the bolt hole on the head.
You do NOT want to glob it on. Too much and you risk forcing it under the head gasket which could result in problems later.

"The bigger the glob the better the job" does not apply in this case.

Ok, so an even thin coating on the threads ON THE BOLT right, not in the threaded hole in the engine block?

But should I put anything in the unthreaded bolt hole in the head just beneath (around) the bolt head to have a 'second dam' to prevent leakage.

[This message has been edited by kjelle69 (edited 03-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by kjelle69: Ok, so an even thin coating on the threads ON THE BOLT right, not in the threaded hole in the engine block? But should I put anything in the unthreaded bolt hole in the head just beneath (around) the bolt head to have a 'second dam' to prevent leakage.

correct. just put a dab on the threads, then spin the bolt around, spreading it out

quote Originally posted by kjelle69: Ok, so an even thin coating on the threads ON THE BOLT right, not in the threaded hole in the engine block? But should I put anything in the unthreaded bolt hole in the head just beneath (around) the bolt head to have a 'second dam' to prevent leakage.

Just the threads of the bolt. Don't need to put anything in the unthreaded bolt hole, It won't leak.

quote Originally posted by kjelle69: I found another product that I can get rather quickly as my friend has a tube : http://www.permabond.co.uk/...nts/A1044_TDS_UK.pdf

FYI, in reading the permabond A1044 tech info sheet, it appears to be the same as the GM or Permatex equivalent.

So this is the stuff I got at home. I can also get the Permabond 1044 from a friend.
Which is best ? RTV manages higher temperature, but the other one is supposed to seal threads... At least pipe threads.

[This message has been edited by kjelle69 (edited 03-11-2008).]

technicaly - the temp should not exceed much past thermostat temp - 195*
it is dipping into the coolant jacket after all
I would say the thread sealant - but either will be fine.

A thougt flew trough my head:


Now, IF I have to re-torque the headbolts after a while....

I guess this operation WILL destroy any type of thread sealant applied.

can not see a need for that. dont think anyone has ever re-torqued head bolts on one of these motors.

on my old VW diesel, with alum head, you were to torque down the heads, then after 500 miles - do it again - but, there is nothing like that for the 2.8/3.1/3.4

Now I have three chemicals to choose from:

Loctite 561, Stick http://65.213.72.112/tds5/docs/561-EN.pdf
FelPro Black RTV Silicone
Permabond A1044

The Loctite product seems to have very good resistance against antifreeze and engine oil. I think I'll go for that !