Yesterday I changed the oil on my Fiero (87 GT with 2.8L V6) and found these pieces attached to the magnetic oil drain plug I have. They look identical and seem to have broken off something at the curved side. The pieces are about 0.5 cm (0.2 inches) high. What are they? The engine works fine...





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[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 04-20-2008).]

They dont look much like they broke off of something, maybe something that got dropped into the engine? If they did break off of something, someone will know from where.

Can't recognize anything internal to the 2.8L. I would agree it may be that something got dropped into the engine. If the engine is running well and without any unusual noises, I wouldn't worry about it.

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I'm with the others. They don't look like anything I've ever seen in any of my engines.

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Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

Hey Yellow,
It appears that at one time it was a cylindrical peice. In other words, try re-arranging the pieces to form a circle. From this starting point, I cannot see that it once belonged within your engine. Most likely it was left behind in your oil pan during your last cleaning.

Cordially,
Kevin

They almost like the the lock tabs you bend up to keep a nut or bolt from turning. Which as far as I know don't exist inside an engine.
Don't look like they went though anything so guess I go alone with the others. Got dropped in somehow.

Do you have your oil changed by someone or do it yourself?

It is hard to judge the size here. Could they be tabs bent to hold the filter screen on the oil pump?

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They do look like tabs that were bent over or welded to hold something. Maybe the screen as mentioned or to guide a seal. All the edges are finished except the one that appears broken off.

They could have been dropped into the engine. Wouldn't count on anything.

Are they fatal? wouldn't completely rule it out. If they were holding the screen and the screen falls out, the oil pump could suck in large trash that could kill it really easily.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

I change it myself - otherwise I would probably never have found out...

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Do you have your oil changed by someone or do it yourself?

i cant tell by the pics,
are any of them shiny like they've been rubbing on something where i put the green lines?

are you measuring them? or just guessing they are 5mm?

Damn buddy, you've got a good memory. I just looked at my old dist base and those pieces could easily be the 3 metal tabs you mentioned. They are very small, 5mm sounds about right. And they are connected right where the pieces above show to be broken.

Good! Now, assuming these are the pieces, what could happen to the engine due to their failure?

One thing the engine has is valve chatter when it's cold but that goes away once it warms up.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Good! Now, assuming these are the pieces, what could happen to the engine due to their failure?

if it's the tangs on the distributor slip ring, the distributor housing will get ground away.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: One thing the engine has is valve chatter when it's cold but that goes away once it warms up.

if you had a valve job while the engine was being rebuilt and they did not put spacer shims under the valve springs, then this could explain the problem.

you can pull the distributor and put it back in less than 30 minutes.
i suggest you try that first.


.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 04-21-2008).]

Great help, I will do that and report back.

Great videos BTW...

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: you can pull the distributor and put it back in less than 30 minutes. i suggest you try that first.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 04-21-2008).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Great videos BTW...

thanks.
i'll be watching for a reply, as i also want to know where those little things came from.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: ...as i also want to know where those little things came from.

Yellowstone should consider himself lucky. I believe those are alien transponders originally destined for Yellowstone's head which may have been mistakenly implanted into his oil pan.

Excuse me, there appears to be a black helicopter suddenly hovering over my house...

they look like valve keepers to me.. but I've never opened up one of these engines so that's just a guess

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 04-21-2008).]

Nope, that wasn't it. I compared the pieces to the retainer on a spare distributor I have and the broken-off pieces are much bigger. Here's a pic:



But it could very well be from a piece with a similar function somewhere else in the engine. Ideas?

BUMP for more ideas...

If they are the right size they sure do look they may have come from a valve spring spacer. Maybe someones idea of a valve hight shim? Or did someone cut the lil ears of the head gaskets? Best call in CSI. If you dont determine for sure where they came from, bit the bullet and pull the pan, like he said you dont it to be the oil screen.

Any way to post a picture with a ruler for scale to get an idea of what size they are? My thought was the valve spring dampener also, I've seen fingers broken off of those before.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: i cant tell by the pics, are any of them shiny like they've been rubbing on something where i put the green lines? are you measuring them? or just guessing they are 5mm?

What he said . I just went out and measured an ear from a set of old springs i have and got these measurements. .286 wide and .039 think (in inches)

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

Did you have the valves done, like with new springs, if so a valve or two may have springs that are too high and thus may explain the broken dampers. If that is the case your may be shot too.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: If that is the case your may be shot too.

Oh, that's really helpful.

I know exactly what those are! If I had my camera I would post a pic- I have one sitting right next to me. But they came off the valve spring resonator as buddycraigg said. They are the correct size and from your pictures, same shape as well. That might explain your valve chatter as well.

[This message has been edited by topher_time (edited 04-24-2008).]

You know, if someone tried to sell me a valve spring resonator yesterday, I would have looked at them as if they tried to sell me a muffler bearing. So what is it's purpose?

Just another idea to throw out there - could be the tangs from a cam lock plate. I don't know if your engine was rebuilt recently... actually I don't know how they could fall off unless they were fatigued, so it's probably NOT it.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 04-25-2008).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: You know, if someone tried to sell me a valve spring resonator yesterday, I would have looked at them as if they tried to sell me a muffler bearing. So what is it's purpose?

Have you ever been next to a motorcycle while moving?
Take a look next time and you will see the slack side of the chain making a motion similar to an inchworm.

Valve springs do the same thing at certain RPMs.
They wiggle like a belly dancer.
They use resonators to keep the springs straight up and down.

Here come the measurements (all metric):



5.5 mm (0.2165 inch)



6.5 mm (0.2559 inch)



2.5 mm (0.0984 inch)

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: What he said . I just went out and measured an ear from a set of old springs i have and got these measurements. .286 wide and .039 think (in inches)

Looking at the curl back on the piece it almost does look like what I remember from the valve piece.
It seems the valve keeper did curve in and then back out before it when vertical. I'd have to look at one of the head I have laying in the garage.

Bump for more input

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Bump for more input

Careful what you ask for.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I believe those are alien transponders originally destined for Yellowstone's head which may have been mistakenly implanted into his oil pan.

Looks like that ruler has also so seen beter days, was it in the oil pan too?

OK. I meant constructive input...

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Bump for more input

As stated above, I think they are the retainers that hold the valve springs straight in the valve seat.




What is amazing is that they were able to get out from under the spring. There is no clearance from side to side for these to squeeze out let alone land in your oil return passages and end up in your pan. All I can say is be thankful that they didn't clog the oil return holes or you would be looking for a new engine.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 04-26-2008).]

How the hell would they get from the heads into the oil pan? The oil passages arent that big.

Thanks, that seems to clear it up. What is the recommendation? Open up the engine? Or leave it as is while the engine runs fine?

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: As stated above, I think they are the retainers that hold the valve springs straight in the valve seat. What is amazing is that they were able to get out from under the spring. There is no clearance from side to side for these to squeeze out let alone land in your oil return passages and end up in your pan. All I can say is be thankful that they didn't clog the oil return holes or you would be looking for a new engine.

To really check these, you would have to pull the heads and then each valve spring to see if they are intact. They are hidden in the lower part of the spring against the heads. At that point, you might as well change your pistons and rebuild the motor