I'm working out the bugs in an '86 GT I bought back in March...

As the topic states, every time the car is started, the windshield wipers give a single wipe back and forth across the windshield. This is fine if it's raining, but it's real annoying when the glass is completely dry. I've had to pull the fuse out to temporarily eliminate this problem.

Suggestions?

Aaaah, the infamous "phantom wiper" syndrome. I've never had a Fiero do this, but I recall there being a problem with the circuit board on the wiper motor that causes this. You can replace the board with one from a donor car fairly easily. You may also look into the turn stalk as well.

Exorsist?

My give me a phantom wipe sometimes but it's always associated with my proximity to the turn signal arm so I'm fairly sure I have a flakey wiper switch.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I'm working out the bugs in an '86 GT I bought back in March... As the topic states, every time the car is started, the windshield wipers give a single wipe back and forth across the windshield. This is fine if it's raining, but it's real annoying when the glass is completely dry. I've had to pull the fuse out to temporarily eliminate this problem. Suggestions?

Mine does this too. There is a thread on this somewhere.I live with it.

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Rodney sells a kit that is suppose to eliminate the phantom wipe problem...

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Rodney sells a kit that is suppose to eliminate the phantom wipe problem...

Is there anything Rodney does not sell a kit for?

quote Originally posted by kwagner: Is there anything Rodney does not sell a kit for?

Rotary Engines?

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Rodney sells a kit that is suppose to eliminate the phantom wipe problem...

His repair kit appears to be six electrolyic capacitors. Is that the source of our problems? Finding quality caps would be the trick...

If it triggers on power apply or crank it's likely the capacitors. If it triggers when wiggling the stalk or applying turn signals then it's the switch in the column.

JazzMan

I hate it when someone posts a question about something which has been previously discussed a hundred times.

Sorry guys, I had no idea that “phantom” or “ghost” wipes were such an issue with so many Fieros. My ‘87 has never experienced this problem.

Now that I’ve read over several threads concerning this issue (and seeing how difficult it sometimes can be to identify and repair the correct component), I’m tending to believe that a work-around may possibly be the simplest solution. If, that’s IF a single phantom wipe is the only problem (ie - everything else works as it’s supposed to), wouldn’t an added switch solve the problem? Simply have the switch turned off normally, and only turn it on when the wipers are actually required?

My question then for one of you smart cookies, which wire should I tap the switch into? White, gray, purple, pink or orange? (My guess is white.) The wiring diagram below is for an ‘87, but I believe it’s close enough to an ‘86 for our purposes here.



Any feedback on this "solution" is also welcome.

If it's a known problem with a known solution, just replace the %^*&^$$%$% capacitors! Why hack up the wiring instead? (Just MHO, of course.)

I have a temporary fix on one of my Fiero's right now.

Remove wiper fuse. Get one which is blown. Use soldering iron and melt the plastic on the ends exposing the two metal studs. Solder a wire to each stud and wrap with electrical tape. Put a switch and inline fuse (correct size) between the two wires. Put the modified fuse back in fuse panel wiper location. Mount switch under dash. Turn switch on when you want to use wipers. When not needed turn switch off. Phantom eliminated.

Been using this for several years now. I'm a lazy cuss.

But, if someone else drives the car and it happens to rain they will have bad things to say about you when they return. Don't ask me how I know.

I was at Rodneys site earlier and I think it said there were bad switches in the 85 & 86's and the best way to fix was with an 87 switch(plug and play)......I'll get around to this one day as I have a rocker switch mounted to the lower edge of the dash that operates My wipers (installed by PO)......the problem mine have is that if I disable the rocker switch and put the wiper fuse back in then My wipers won't turn off

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: If it's a known problem with a known solution, just replace the %^*&^$$%$% capacitors! Why hack up the wiring instead? (Just MHO, of course.)

That's just it though Marvin, it's NOT always the "%^*&^$$%$% capacitors!".

You to lol?

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: If it's a known problem with a known solution, just replace the %^*&^$$%$% capacitors! Why hack up the wiring instead? (Just MHO, of course.)

While I agree that it is not always the capacitors - I do agree with the "Why hack up the wiring". Every problem can be solved if people would just take the effin time to do it - although it could also be a lack of electrical troubleshooting ability. Problem is too many people are hacks and just really don't care.

Even if you lack troubleshooting ability, it's easy to change out the circuit board in the wiper motor with a good one (you don't even have to remove the motor from the car and takes less than 5 minutes) - or swap out the steering column if you have no ambition to change the switch (15 minutes). But for some, they rather just put a switch in to hide the problem rather than to "actually" fix it...

Many if not most "ghost" wiper problems are caused by the large diode which is actually in the washer pump circuit. It's identified as CR1 in the above diagram but has different numbers on other boards.

As a quick test, just clip one side of the diode (make sure you clip the correct one). The washer pump won't work with the diode clipped but the ghost wipes will likely stop. If not, the problem is elsewhere.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: While I agree that it is not always the capacitors - I do agree with the "Why hack up the wiring". Every problem can be solved if people would just take the effin time to do it - although it could also be a lack of electrical troubleshooting ability. Problem is too many people are hacks and just really don't care. Even if you lack troubleshooting ability, it's easy to change out the circuit board in the wiper motor with a good one (you don't even have to remove the motor from the car and takes less than 5 minutes) - or swap out the steering column if you have no ambition to change the switch (15 minutes). But for some, they rather just put a switch in to hide the problem rather than to "actually" fix it...

Are you trying to be helpful or just insulting?

Not everybody happens to have an extra circuit board laying around to try. Not everybody has an extra steering column available to swap out. Not everybody has the extra time required to do EVERYTHING they want to in their lives, be it Fiero orientated or whatever.

I’m trying to work the bugs out of this ‘86 GT that I bought in March which has been sitting for six years. The weather has been awful here on the west coast through most of the spring, and since this car is not under cover I’ve had to wait until just recently to start working on it. I don’t like doing a “hack” job. As a matter of fact most of what I’ve been doing so far to this car is undoing the damage that the previous owner has done through neglect and incompetence.

Putting a switch in to eliminate the phantom wipes is a quick way to temporarily repair this relatively minor problem while I spend valuable time doing 101 more important tasks such as getting the front wheels to point in the same direction!

So give me a break on the criticism, okay? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by spark1: Many if not most "ghost" wiper problems are caused by the large diode which is actually in the washer pump circuit. It's identified as CR1 in the above diagram but has different numbers on other boards. As a quick test, just clip one side of the diode (make sure you clip the correct one). The washer pump won't work with the diode clipped but the ghost wipes will likely stop. If not, the problem is elsewhere.

If it turns out it's not the diode, do you then just bridge the clipped wire of the diode with a dab of solder?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: If it turns out it's not the diode, do you then just bridge the clipped wire of the diode with a dab of solder?

Yes, it's just a quick way to eliminate one possible cause.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 06-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: That's just it though Marvin, it's NOT always the "%^*&^$$%$% capacitors!".

Point taken. I just hate to see the factory wiring get hacked up when there are alternatives. I suppose I've just had to troubleshoot too many hack jobs in my life.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Yes, it's just a quick way to eliminate one possible cause.

Great, thanks for the tip!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by spark1: As a quick test, just clip one side of the diode (make sure you clip the correct one). .

which side is the "correct" side?

My 88 always has to give one last wipe for good measure, switching the wipers off actually triggers them to go one last time, that supposed to happen?

I have a 86 GT that suffers from wiper problems. All of the different speed setting work fine but ever since I bought the car, when the wipers are set to off they run like they are on high. I found that If the wipers are set inbetween off and the first intermittent setting they will not come on. But when it is set like this I get the single wipe at start up. Does anybody know what might be causing this? The good news is that I did get it through NJ state inspection like this.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: which side is the "correct" side?

The right side

Just a quick and dirty way of "disconnecting" the (correct) diode. There is at least one other large diode that is similar in appearance.

This is not a permanent fix, it's just for trouble shooting. If the diode is bad, it should be replaced. If not, the cut can be easily repaired.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I think it's a whole lot simpler to tap into one wire (probably the white one) and install an inline switch...

Well, that didn't work.

Even with the white wire cut (which I believe is the 12v power supply), the damn wipers would come on every time I used the turn signals!

There must be an electrical short somewhere, probably in the wiper/turn-signal switch, but who knows...

Okay, back to square one.

I have an '84 here which looks more and more like it's becoming a parts car. Will the wiper/turn-signal switch and/or the circuit board and/or the wiper motor from an '84 work in an '86? This is all so confusing.

I had to take a couple days off from working on this car. Back at 'er today...

Does anyone know the answers to the questions in my previous post regarding using '84 components in this '86?

what I usually do when I want to see if parts from one year work with other years is go to an auto parts web site...Autozone....Rock Auto....Giant....etc. and just see what part # it shows for an 84 and for an 86 and if it's the same it will Definately work...hope this helps

There was a thread quite a while back started by Whuffo on this very issue.
As I recall, the wiper switch in the steering column was the main culprit.
Had to do with the switch design itself and GM's desire to avoid lawsuits.
Please refer to this exhaustive thread for more info.......

Kit

The 84 wiper system is similar to the one used on the 85-91 Blazer. It's nothing like the system used on the 85-88 Fiero and I doubt that any of the componets will interchange.

Here's a link to the switch discussion mentioned above: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/076132.html

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 06-20-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: or swap out the steering column if you have no ambition to change the switch (15 minutes). But for some, they rather just put a switch in to hide the problem rather than to "actually" fix it...

I swapped out my steering column to get the pulse wipers and I got them along with the phantom wipe. Now I have to go in the column and replace the switch if I want to do it right.

quote Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: There was a thread quite a while back started by Whuffo on this very issue.

quote Originally posted by spark1: The 84 wiper system is ... nothing like the system used on the 85-88 Fiero and I doubt that any of the componets will interchange. Here's a link to the switch discussion mentioned above: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/076132.html

That was a very informative thread. Thanks guys.

I was hoping that perhaps if I swapped over ALL the wiper components from the '84 to the '86 (since I already have them) that the wipers would then work properly, but it might be a whole lot easier (relatively speaking) to just get the '87/'88 replacement wiper/turn signal switch and be done with it.

quote Originally posted by spark1: The 84 wiper system is similar to the one used on the 85-91 Blazer. It's nothing like the system used on the 85-88 Fiero and I doubt that any of the componets will interchange.

Actually they do interchange, sort of. I installed an 85 system on my 84 and it was ridiculously easy.

The non-pulse 84 uses the same 4 wires as the 85-88. The 85-88 pulse uses the same 4 wires as the 85-88 non-pulse. Therefore you can bolt-on the 85-88 pulse wiper motor and wiper switch and it will work 100% as factory original.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 06-20-2008).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Actually they do interchange, sort of. I installed an 85 system on my 84 and it was ridiculously easy. The non-pulse 84 uses the same 4 wires as the 85-88. The 85-88 pulse uses the same 4 wires as the 85-88 non-pulse. Therefore you can bolt-on the 85-88 pulse wiper motor and wiper switch and it will work 100% as factory original.

Okay, I'm more confused now.

Just to double-check terms, is the "wiper switch" the mechanism that the turn-signal stalk sticks into?
Can I take the wiper switch from my '84 and put it in the '86?
Does the wiper switch from the '84 absolutely need to be from a "non-pulse" system to use in the '86?
If I can use the '84 wiper switch in the '86, do I also need to use the '84 wiper motor?

Sorry if the answers might seem obvious, but I don't want to be pulling steering columns apart unless I'm sure that the swap is possible.

.
One more bit of info - When I first had a look at the wiper switch wiring in this car, I noticed the purple wire had been disconnected from the wiring harness. The purple wire is part of the high speed wiper control circuit. Not realizing why it might be disconnected, I reconnected it. Well, it turns out if I disconnect it again, that a switch on the white wire (which I had tapped into a couple of days ago) will now eliminate all phantom wipes. The only drawback is lack of high speed wipers, unless of course I tap a switch into the purple wire as well.

Yes, this is kind of a Mickey Mouse solution to the phantom wipe problem, but I thought I'd mention what I've discovered in case brighter minds than mine can determine from these observations exactly just what part of the system is faulty in this and possibly their own Fiero.

(Again, I'll mention that the schematic below is of an '87-'88, and the '86 is a little different.)

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-22-2008).]